Do I "need" 18 volts?

JonathanRyan

JonathanRyan

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So I "need" a new drill. I currently have a 12V Nicad DeWalt that has served me well for a few years but now the batteries are shot and it seems uneconomic to buy new batteries.

Thought I would treat myself to a drill/driver plus impact driver twin pack. There's a big price difference between 10.8 and 18v but I want to get something that will last and I'll be happy with for a few years. Typical pattern for me is that I'll do a month or two of solid DIY then leave the kit in the shed for the rest of the year. I want something with enough power that I won't always need to get the SDS out to drill brick and where the battery will last a decent while drilling and screwing wood.

Should I get

1. 18v with 4 amp batteries
2. 18v with more smaller batteries
3. 10.8 + batteries

Also, are the second tier brands (Milwaukee etc) any good now or is it basically DeWalt, Bosch or Makita?
 
The fact that you are thinking of buying an impact driver implies that you do some heavy work. I cover most trades and wish that instead of getting an impact driver I had got a small and light 10v for use as a screwdriver and for most of my domestic jobs. I have only used my impact driver when doing first fix work, and then it is wonderful.
My SDS gets very little use as the 18v combi does most jobs I come across.

Batteries do need to be used in order to last, or so I believe from experience and what others say - if you are doing DIY then I doubt the extra cost of 4ah batteries are worth the cost. Mine (4ah) usually last a full day at least when laying floors, fixing plasterboard, skirting etc.
As for brands - I have a Makita, and have a range of tools - grinder, vacuum, jigsaw, circular saw, radio as well as my combi and impact drivers. The extra cost has so far seemed to be worth it as all have been abused, dropped etc but I don't suppose you will be doing that as often as I seem to.
I guess my feelings are that you should go with a 10 or 12v combi - I wish I had bought a 10.8v Festool instead of my impact as it is way smaller, lighter, has a better light and seems almost as powerful as my 18v Makita - it isn't cheap though !
 
stevewestern said:
The fact that you are thinking of buying an impact driver implies that you do some heavy work.
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Then I may have the wrong thing...... :)

I was remembering a job where I had to lay some T&G chipboard flooring. Pilot hole, countersink, screw. I must have changed bits about a million times. I was assuming an impact driver would mean I could drill with one device and then screw with the other and also that it would be lighter than a drill/driver if I was just putting screws in all day.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Then I may have the wrong thing...... :)

I was remembering a job where I had to lay some T&G chipboard flooring. Pilot hole, countersink, screw. I must have changed bits about a million times. I was assuming an impact driver would mean I could drill with one device and then screw with the other and also that it would be lighter than a drill/driver if I was just putting screws in all day.
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The choice of bit is important - Wera are among the best, and their impact bits last forever, even more so if not used in an impact driver!
The choice of screw is also important - I tend to use Screwfix Turbo Gold, and wouldn't dream of drilling a pilot hole or countersinking as they (the Turbo Gold) will do it themselves and thus makes a second drill redundant in cases like your floor. Cheap screws are a pain to use and require pilot holes etc in far more situations.
An impact driver is also a VERY noisy thing to use - my neighbour complained when using mine at home.

Edit - just re-read your bit about changing bits and understand better now - I thought you meant replacing the screw bit at first. Yes, changing from drill to countersink to screwdriver bit is a pain, hence my use of quality screws - Spax and Reisser are also good and worth the extra few pennys.
 
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stevewestern said:
Edit - just re-read your bit about changing bits and understand better now - I thought you meant replacing the screw bit at first. Yes, changing from drill to countersink to screwdriver bit is a pain, hence my use of quality screws - Spax and Reisser are also good and worth the extra few pennys.
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Yeah after buying a THIRD countersink bit I realised I should have just bought better screws :)

This actually looks a bit of a bargain to me - but I'm conscious that whatever I buy now will probably determine my choice of power tools for quite a while.

http://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/...mpact Brushless Combi Hammer Drill Driver 18V
 
FFX are a good place to deal with and have some very helpful staff who are worth talking to. Ian has been great for me in the past.
The DeWalt you are looking at should be plenty good enough for most domestic tasks - I was going to get one but went with Makita as there was a special deal going on when I bought - my previous combi was a DeWalt and I gave it away after about 14 years as the batteries were dying.
As you say, choosing a range of tools is important if you are going to be buying more as one battery will fit many tools - DeWalt make a great site radio and battery charger - the Makita one doesn't charge batteries.
 
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I recently got a Hitachi 18V (Li battery) combi which has been great for drilling into brick. I went with 2 smaller batteries as it keeps the weight down when using it and allows you to have one on charge whilst using the other if its a long job. I'd recommend the Hitachi one, its great...

However I'm now looking at some cordless gardening tools and have realised that if I had thought a bit further ahead then I could have gone for a system (like Ryobi) where the batteries are interchangable across all their battery products - so that's worth thinking about.
 
stevewestern said:
The fact that you are thinking of buying an impact driver implies that you do some heavy work. I cover most trades and wish that instead of getting an impact driver I had got a small and light 10v for use as a screwdriver and for most of my domestic jobs. I have only used my impact driver when doing first fix work, and then it is wonderful.
My SDS gets very little use as the 18v combi does most jobs I come across.

Batteries do need to be used in order to last, or so I believe from experience and what others say - if you are doing DIY then I doubt the extra cost of 4ah batteries are worth the cost. Mine (4ah) usually last a full day at least when laying floors, fixing plasterboard, skirting etc.
As for brands - I have a Makita, and have a range of tools - grinder, vacuum, jigsaw, circular saw, radio as well as my combi and impact drivers. The extra cost has so far seemed to be worth it as all have been abused, dropped etc but I don't suppose you will be doing that as often as I seem to.
I guess my feelings are that you should go with a 10 or 12v combi - I wish I had bought a 10.8v Festool instead of my impact as it is way smaller, lighter, has a better light and seems almost as powerful as my 18v Makita - it isn't cheap though !
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I use Festool, the 10.8v is brilliant, but cost wise not worth it unless you're in the trade(£225). It lasts about two to three days on a full charge fitting kitchens and bathrooms.
Most of my drill/driving is Hitachi 18v. They last out the day and can withstand severe punishment.
Lithium batteries are the way to go nowadays.
Screwfix is pretty good price wise for power tools, but I normally use Websters in Wishaw as their service and repair is first class.
Wera for bits as they last better than anything else on the market.
Turbogold for screws. Good Pozidrive screws that self tap and don't normally need to be countersunk.
 
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buy cheap drills and good drill bits. it seems no matter how much I spend on a drill it dies after a couple of years so I just get the cheapest going now.
 
err if your leaving it in the shed for 10 months the battery/s will be goosed next time you use it ,cold kills batteries its a fact ,even the big 100amp hour caravan leisure batteries are goosed if not kept topped up during winter
 
the black fox said:
err if your leaving it in the shed for 10 months the battery/s will be goosed next time you use it ,cold kills batteries its a fact ,even the big 100amp hour caravan leisure batteries are goosed if not kept topped up during winter
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what makes you think I keep them in a shed? I keep them in the cupboard under the stairs and use them quite often.
 
kendo1 said:
Turbogold for screws. Good Pozidrive screws that self tap and don't normally need to be countersunk.
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I just remembered - I was using really long screws (screwing through floor grade Kingspan into joists) and couldn't get self counter sinking ones.

TopBanana said:
However I'm now looking at some cordless gardening tools and have realised that if I had thought a bit further ahead then I could have gone for a system (like Ryobi) where the batteries are interchangable across all their battery products - so that's worth thinking about.
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That's the reason I'm hesitating. If a drill was just a drill it would be easy. But it's a whole system theses days :D. If I have this right then there's the same difference between a DeWalt 10.8 and a DeWalt 18 as there is between a DeWalt and a Makita. Given the batteries are the expensive bit, I'd like to buy those once.
 
i was humming n arring about a new cordless drill this last week or two one of the criteria was it had to be light and the other was i wanted the impact feature
a couple that i looked at was the makita 18v combi that B&Q are doing at a reasonable price

http://www.diy.com/departments/maki...13_BQ&ef_id=VUX3fQAAAQypFBvn:20150512173719:s

and the bosch 10.8v combi from homebase

http://www.homebase.co.uk/en/homeba...cordless-lithium-ion-108v-hammer-drill-178793

4 days ago when i ended up buying a drill i bought the bosch from hombase which was on offer at 69 quid and a further 20% discount if ordered online making the price of the drill 49 quid which was a bargain
now it seems to have jumped back up to 99 quid but if the same choice was being made today at current prices i would have gone for the makita

the bosch drill is ideal for me it's light with reasonable build quality and Li Ion which can count if it's not used a lot
iv'e not used it in anger yet but it does seem ok
 
As a trade user, I'd go for Festool. They last better than any other make but they are very expensive, extreme overkill!
Next would be Hitachi, Makita, DeWalt, in no order.
Ryobi I would consider a DIY brand.
Bosch would be last on the list, with Black and Decker and non-name brands.
 
18v NiCad Makita here, bought as a kit with two batteries and loads of bits for about £115 two or three years ago to replace a 12v Hitachi set. The difference in torque and staying power was amazing, the kit has had a fair bit of use since and is still going strong.
 
kendo1 said:
As a trade user, I'd go for Festool. They last better than any other make but they are very expensive, extreme overkill!
Next would be Hitachi, Makita, DeWalt, in no order.
Ryobi I would consider a DIY brand.
Bosch would be last on the list, with Black and Decker and non-name brands.
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strange you would recommend dewalt but not black and decker who own dewalt

i must ask what makes bosch so bad ? my experience of bosch tools at a domestic level has been good
 
cosmicma said:
strange you would recommend dewalt but not black and decker who own dewalt

i must ask what makes bosch so bad ? my experience of bosch tools at a domestic level has been good
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Black and Decker and DeWalt are for different markets and at different price points.
Recently, there have been a lot of complaints on trade websites about battery life with DeWalt. They need to get their act together or they will lose market share.
Bosch is fine for domestic use, probably better than B&D, but over priced for what they are. Hardly any tradesman would use one.
 
kendo1 said:
Black and Decker and DeWalt are for different markets and at different price points.
Recently, there have been a lot of complaints on trade websites about battery life with DeWalt. They need to get their act together or they will lose market share.
Bosch is fine for domestic use, probably better than B&D, but over priced for what they are. Hardly any tradesman would use one.
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i agree about bosch being used for trade if was in a trade that use power tools bosch would not be on my list but as you say for light domestic use i have no problem with bosch but i only buy if their heavily discounted
the last black and decker cordless drill i bought just felt cheap, everything about it had cheap stamped all over it hence buying the bosch which in my opinion seems a much better tool

i remember black and decker being slated in the 80's ( pro line series i think ) by anyone in the trade it seems like not much has changed
 
cosmicma said:
i agree about bosch being used for trade if was in a trade that use power tools bosch would not be on my list but as you say for light domestic use i have no problem with bosch but i only buy if their heavily discounted
the last black and decker cordless drill i bought just felt cheap, everything about it had cheap stamped all over it hence buying the bosch which in my opinion seems a much better tool

i remember black and decker being slated in the 80's ( pro line series i think ) by anyone in the trade it seems like not much has changed
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There's a pecking order with power tools :)
Tradesmen using B&D would be laughed at, Bosch users would be looked down on.
DeWalt users get the job done, no frills. Makita is good too.
Festools are coveted. Once you use one there is no going back.
 
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a friend of mine converted from dewalt to hilti recently he preferred them to dewalt
never heard of festools until today, probably because there at a price point above my usual spend which in reality isn't that much :)
 
Anyone else have a Site drill - AFAIK made by Makita for Screwfix? Had mine a few years now and the batteries have remained good.
 
the black fox said:
err if your leaving it in the shed for 10 months the battery/s will be goosed next time you use it ,cold kills batteries its a fact ,even the big 100amp hour caravan leisure batteries are goosed if not kept topped up during winter
Click to expand...

Different batteries need different care. Lead Acid batteries, like a leisure battery, ideally need a trickle charge when stored, or at least regular top-ups, it's not the cold, car batteries work fine in a bad winter - here is chapter and verse

NiMH and Lithium as used in drills do not suffer from this problem but do suffer from other problems...
 
Back to the original question- 18v would be best,
I just use 2.5Ah Li-Ion batteries. They last long enough for me.
But, I normally have three or four different drill/drivers with different drills and bits attached so that I don't have to swap out- just pick up the drill I need.
 
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Just a word of warning, I had a McAllister (B&Q own Brand) bought for me, when the Charger packed up after 14 Months no spares were available and would not be stocked again!!!
 
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That's pretty standard Lennard, Chinese no-name manufacturers make a batch of kit that's bought in bulk by whoever, no spares are made to speak of and the next batch of kit uses different parts. It suits the likes of B&Q who want you to come back in a year or two and spend more cash.
 
Makita DHP458 Z 18v with 88nm torque with 4Ah batteries = Awesomeness
 
Thanks - some great advice in this thread. Especially steering me away from Bosch :)

Quick question while I have all your attention....that Makita looks great. Would this be a better or worse buy?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dewalt-DC...284?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35e9009964

(That's an 18V XR brushless DeWalt hammer driver with 4A battery for £145).

I know I'm unlikely to hit the limits on either but I have a slight brand fondness for DeWalt (after all, Tommy Walsh uses them....). Also, 25 quid cheaper.
 
Not sure that Tommy Walsh is any sort of recommendation....

I have the Makita brushless version as they say it is more efficient than the brush type - not sure most would notice unless using it heavily and all day..

£25 and a nicer colour is what would swing me if I was you, but I might be tempted towards a second battery if you are going to be using it a lot or don't like stopping for tea while the battery charges.
One little thing that may be worth looking in to is the light - mine has a handy light that illuminates the work area of the drill, except that it doesn't - it casts a shadow on the drill tip. The festool 10v CXS has a well thought out light that actually does as it should - not sure how well the DeWalt one does, and it may not be an issue for you.

Edit - just seen that it has a base-mounted LED so it ought to do its job properly !
 
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I've always had 18v Makita, but regardless of brand, if you stick to the brands that sell other "bare" tools ( just the tool itself and nothing else) you can add and add at little expense. I started out with an 18v Makita 3 battery set, and I now have an 18v rip snorter, grinder, muti cutter, torch which I've added at little cost over the past few years.

So stick to dewalt, hitachi, Makita, bosch etc that sell bare tool, and the all important 18v where this type of tool is most common.
 
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I have 4 Makita cordless bodies:

18v driver
18v combi
18v impact
12v driver

90% of the time for driving screws into plugs, wood etc. i use the impact driver. It so efficient at it's job can't fault it. Combi for when mains drills aren't practical and both drivers with different drill bits generally so less faff swapping round things.
 
Steve Smith said:
240v and an extension lead!


Steve.
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I'm just a big fan of this, get a really nice bosch SDS that will do anything and a nice roll out lead.
using battery stuff in and around the home is just burining money.
 
Mr Bump said:
I'm just a big fan of this, get a really nice bosch SDS that will do anything and a nice roll out lead.
using battery stuff in and around the home is just burining money.
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I have four or five battery drills ranging from B&Q cheap to DeWalt. The batteries on most of them go flat very quickly (especially DeWalt).

I find it much easier to just run an extension lead and use my Bosch drill.

It would be good if the manufacturers of battery drills made a power supply with a mains lead which could plug in in place of the battery to give a mains or battery option.


Steve.
 
There are actually lots of reasons why I don't like extension leads and power drills, but the main one is the ghassle of getting out a reel, laying it safely to where I need, plugging in and then clearing up afterwards. It's a lot easier just to use a battery drill.

I'm actually now regretting my decision to get a mains multi cutter last year. If I was doing it again, I'd pay the extra and get one that took the same batteries as my drill.

Mr Bump said:
I'm just a big fan of this, get a really nice bosch SDS that will do anything and a nice roll out lead.
Click to expand...

I have an ancient Hitachi SDS. I use it a few times a year. It's paid for itself in brute power but it's really heavy to use all day.
 
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