Decisions, Decisions....

Chris Y

Chris Y

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Advice sought here please (apologies if already covered)..

Looking to folk out on continuous lighting for modelling location shoots with the ability to be set up also indoors as required.

In the current studio i use a multitude of Bowens lights that are fixed into the studio.

Options i have been reading up on are:

Bowens Gemini 500C/500C Travelpak Kit

http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/product/bowens_gemini_500c_500c_travelpak_kit/bw4970uk#tabs

or on the flip side:

Perhaps a lencarta safari?

Favouring the Bowens due to expandability and have a budget around £1000.

Thanks in advance!
 
Well going by the specs the Lencarta Li Ion rechargers slower then the Bowens travel pack

Fast recycle
Lencarta - 2.9s too full power
Bowens - 2.0s too full power (upto 3000w)


I own the large travelpak chris and its Brilliant as i can just pop my 500Pros into a bag with the pack and off you go no faffing with another system, the battery lasts for ages if you don't need the fast charge you can put it on slow and get more pops per pak, the battery pops off really easy and can charge it on its own away from the pack, pack has LEDs to tell you teh charge and the best thing about it all the control of the heads are left on the head not on the pack.

Any questions crhis just ask :).
 
I think the problem with Travelpacks is that there are several variables and as always this gives the advertisers some wiggle room to present facts that may or may not be relevant. It's going to depend on which pack you use, which heads, how many and whether you select fast or slow charge.

For example, from the BowensDirect website,

Able to support up to two Bowens Gemini monolights, the Travelpak can provide power up to a massive 3000Ws, recycle to full power at speeds up to 2 seconds and offers up to 750 shots on a single charge.
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I'm going to guess that midway through the sentence they change the variables. No way the 2s recycle refers to 3kws.

But if you want dual fuel power and decent modelling lights when indoors it's almost the only game in town. Personally I'd sacrifice some of that not to have to carry 7 kilos of lead.
 
DemiLion said:
Nope. As mentioned the Strobeam offers all that as well.
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Apart from the modelling lights....

The EID500 has them. They are better than the ones on the predecessor but still pretty ineffectual.

[I should probably mention that now and then Viewfinder pay me to big their lights up.]
 
kiteninja said:
Well going by the specs the Lencarta Li Ion rechargers slower then the Bowens travel pack

Fast recycle
Lencarta - 2.9s too full power
Bowens - 2.0s too full power (upto 3000w)


I own the large travelpak chris and its Brilliant as i can just pop my 500Pros into a bag with the pack and off you go no faffing with another system, the battery lasts for ages if you don't need the fast charge you can put it on slow and get more pops per pak, the battery pops off really easy and can charge it on its own away from the pack, pack has LEDs to tell you teh charge and the best thing about it all the control of the heads are left on the head not on the pack.

Any questions crhis just ask :).
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This is the problem. The actual recharge time for the Bowens travelpack with 2 heads is around 7 seconds, not 2. That's with a fresh battery, which takes longer as it becomes more tired. That is, if you don't put the modelling lamps on - if you do it gets really slow:)

The Safari Li-on is 2.9 seconds at full power, full stop.

I think the problem with Travelpacks is that there are several variables and as always this gives the advertisers some wiggle room to present facts that may or may not be relevant. It's going to depend on which pack you use, which heads, how many and whether you select fast or slow charge.
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I think this hits the nail on the head. I'm sure that my car can manage 50 mpg going down Mount Snowdon in neutral but that isn't how I'm ever going to drive it. Real world experience is far more honest than marketing guff.

Tell you what - as I said, I'll be at the Event Photographer Society show on Tuesday with the Safari. If someone would like to bring a Bowens Travelpack (or anything else) along to do a side by side comparison and promise to publish their findings on this thread I'll be very happy.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Apart from the modelling lights....

The EID500 has them. They are better than the ones on the predecessor but still pretty ineffectual.

[I should probably mention that now and then Viewfinder pay me to big their lights up.]
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Fair point - I tend not to use those too much.

Otherwise you were spot on about them, including the 6mm problem; light survived, 3.5/6.3mm converter jack didn't! :D
 
Garry Edwards said:
This is the problem. The actual recharge time for the Bowens travelpack with 2 heads is around 7 seconds, not 2. That's with a fresh battery, which takes longer as it becomes more tired. That is, if you don't put the modelling lamps on - if you do it gets really slow:)

The Safari Li-on is 2.9 seconds at full power, full stop.

I think this hits the nail on the head. I'm sure that my car can manage 50 mpg going down Mount Snowdon in neutral but that isn't how I'm ever going to drive it. Real world experience is far more honest than marketing guff.

Tell you what - as I said, I'll be at the Event Photographer Society show on Tuesday with the Safari. If someone would like to bring a Bowens Travelpack (or anything else) along to do a side by side comparison and promise to publish their findings on this thread I'll be very happy.
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modeling lamp is disabled when on the pack (a pain but no biggy), It recharges faster then the safar original i have with both heads plugged in.

less weight is always good but if your in a car moving it around is easy and when on location unless your running a marathon on your own with all your kit its not that bad either.

horses for courses just giving him my personal experience here I've not tested it back to back with the safari as I havn't needed too i use both & get on with it but if you've already invested in bowens & have the heads then might as well just buy the travel pak :).
 
kiteninja said:
modeling lamp is disabled when on the pack (a pain but no biggy), It recharges faster then the safar original i have with both heads plugged in.

less weight is always good but if your in a car moving it around is easy and when on location unless your running a marathon on your own with all your kit its not that bad either.

horses for courses just giving him my personal experience here I've not tested it back to back with the safari as I havn't needed too i use both & get on with it but if you've already invested in bowens & have the heads then might as well just buy the travel pak :).
Click to expand...
Fair enough, it used to be possible to use the Travelpak with the modelling lamp on, didn't know they'd disabled it.

The Safari Li-on has much faster recycling than the Classic that you bought.
 
If you want fast recycling, lots of pops to a charge, plenty of power and powerful modelling lamps then the Lencarta Safari Li-on is your only real choice.
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Mahoneyd187 said:
Come on now...:cuckoo:
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You may not be a fan of Lencarta - but what's wrong with that statement?
I don't feel that there are any alternatives out there with anywhere near the same performance. If you think I'm wrong, please let me know why...
 
Garry Edwards said:
You may not be a fan of Lencarta - but what's wrong with that statement?
I don't feel that there are any alternatives out there with anywhere near the same performance. If you think I'm wrong, please let me know why...
Click to expand...

Because there are a fair few, and every one I'd ever recommend are better built than Lencarta units for a starter.

Hensel Porty 600 & 1200
Elinchrom Quadra
Broncolor Mobil
Profoto (I won't list off their location offerings, they are all better than anything Lencarta sells on)

To say none of these have "anywhere near the same performance" as a Lencarta Safari Li-on is ridiculous. Truth is, there are other offerings, some are more expensive, some are better. A Safari Li-on, in no way shape or form, would never be your only option no matter what the requirements are :bonk:
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Because there are a fair few, and every one I'd ever recommend are better built than Lencarta units for a starter.

Hensel Porty 600 & 1200
Elinchrom Quadra
Broncolor Mobil
Profoto (I won't list off their location offerings, they are all better than anything Lencarta sells on)

To say none of these have "anywhere near the same performance" as a Lencarta Safari Li-on is ridiculous. Truth is, there are other offerings, some are more expensive, some are better. A Safari Li-on, in no way shape or form, would never be your only option no matter what the requirements are :bonk:
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Hensel and Profoto yes, but the OP made it clear in his post that his budget is around £1000, so that yes becomes a no.

Quadra? Good product with a couple of features that the Lencarta Safari Li-on doesn't have - but only 2/3rds the power, nearly twice the price, 1/5th the battery capacity and the modelling lamp is much less bright too. The price alone makes it a no for the OP.

As for your comment about the Lencarta build quality, that's because you haven't seen it. Come and see it and you may change your mind:)
 
Garry Edwards said:
Hensel and Profoto yes, but the OP made it clear in his post that his budget is around £1000, so that yes becomes a no.

Quadra? Good product with a couple of features that the Lencarta Safari Li-on doesn't have - but only 2/3rds the power, nearly twice the price, 1/5th the battery capacity and the modelling lamp is much less bright too. The price alone makes it a no for the OP.

As for your comment about the Lencarta build quality, that's because you haven't seen it. Come and see it and you may change your mind:)
Click to expand...

Your blanket statement didn't factor in cost though, that wasn't one of the things you specified. There are products that exceed the capabilities of the li-on, quite clearly, in a number of areas.

My personal recommendation would be buy 2nd hand, off of wealthy hobbyists, that use gear and sell it on after a couple of months when they realise they don't need it or dont know how to use it. Hell, I'm selling my Bron Mobil next month, I won't be asking much more than a grand for that!

I've owned Lencarta stuff before, stuff you still sell, we've been through this. I bought it, I wasn't impressed, I don't want to bring it up all the time but build quality is a factor as well as sparkly nice spec sheets
 
Garry Edwards said:
Hensel and Profoto yes, but the OP made it clear in his post that his budget is around £1000, so that yes becomes a no.
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To be fair, he also said continuous light. So none of these would work ;)

Mahoneyd187 said:
Hell, I'm selling my Bron Mobil next month, I won't be asking much more than a grand for that!
Click to expand...

Hmm, me too. Race you? Bet mine's over a grand though....
 
If you're so confident, send me a Li-on so I can write an honest review of it?
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Not much more than a grand, doesn't mean a grand...
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Yeah but "over a grand" means "quite a bit over a grand" ;)

I'm supposed to be ahead of you in the queue for a loaner Li-On.

Hmm, maybe I should talk to Lencarta about a darn sarf Li-On hands on day..... ;)
 
JonathanRyan said:
Yeah but "over a grand" means "quite a bit over a grand" ;)

I'm supposed to be ahead of you in the queue for a loaner Li-On.

Hmm, maybe I should talk to Lencarta about a darn sarf Li-On hands on day..... ;)
Click to expand...

lol, you've got too much gear as it is!
 
Yes, Jonathan is head of the queue, once we have one of the review kits available.

Problem is, if he likes it and tells people how good it is he'll be accused of pimping for Lencarta again:)
And when I say it's good Danny thinks I have a vested interest - fair enough because of course I'm involved with Lencarta - but I also have more experience of it than anyone else, and the fact that I have a role with Lencarta doesn't make me wrong.

Danny, you're somewhere in darkest Essex - I'll be in darkest Basingstoke on Wednesday, do you want to meet up and see for yourself?
 
Garry that's miles away!!

I have no personal vendetta, against either yourself or Lencarta, but I am free to provide my own views on the products you promote and sell. You're not doing anything wrong, neither are Lencarta, I know that. But neither am I. The Lencarta stuff I owned, wasn't up to scratch in my opinion, and I will continue to convey that opinion until I am proved otherwise. That's not a challenge, it's not a call-out or a thread or anything silly, it's like going on a car forum and saying you don't like Fords to a Ford dealer, who's always on there trying to sell people Fords, the opinions will clash often.
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Garry that's miles away!!

I have no personal vendetta, against either yourself or Lencarta, but I am free to provide my own views on the products you promote and sell. You're not doing anything wrong, neither are Lencarta, I know that. But neither am I. The Lencarta stuff I owned, wasn't up to scratch in my opinion, and I will continue to convey that opinion until I am proved otherwise. That's not a challenge, it's not a call-out or a thread or anything silly, it's like going on a car forum and saying you don't like Fords to a Ford dealer, who's always on there trying to sell people Fords, the opinions will clash often.
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Danny,
I forgot that people doon sooth don't travel as far as people in God's own county:) I just wondered whether you might be round that way. It's even possible that I may be on the M11 next Thursday, maybe you could buy me a coffee on one of the services... That's a fair exchange, I get a coffee and you get to play with the Safari Li-on :lol:

I don't take it personally, and you're perfectly entitled to your opinion. But maybe it seems a bit personal when you say that a product that you haven't seen is poor - which is why I'd like you to see it and try it for yourself.
 
All, appreciate the info and for and against.

Just to clear up (probably due to my lack of knowledge here, Continuous - Negate that!.

£1000 - after seeing the variants its more like £1300-1500 all in. Gemini 500R's

As far as the refresh rate, i don't and will probably never fire off bursts outside of the times so am good with that. Have looked at the Lencarta and due to wanting the compatibility later on to expand more, would lean more towards Bowens.

Now if someone wants to chime in and say they bought a set and don't want them anymore as their new Aston has arrived then there's £ waiting! :)

I have been looking very closely at Bowens due to having used them before. I only get one crack at forking out for this lot so its "Buy nice or (not) Buy twice"

Really appreciate all the comms, unfortunately i cant come over on Tuesday Gary due to Spouse's Operation but will be pulling the trigger very soon!

Thanks all

Chris
 
check out dalephotographic :) i got all of my bowens from them :)

The other thing you get with bowens is top notch Customer service my 500Pro when it arrived had a problem after a week, they picked it up next day and I had it back 2 days later good as new not what you want with a new product but atleast it got sorted fast touch wood no other problems with anything else.
 
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If you're looking close to £2k I'd seriously consider Profoto or Broncolor, not meaning to influence you just trying to help your awareness of what's around. Profoto especially are supported very well internationally by hire centres and good studios. By spending £1800 or so it's evident you've got serious intentions, top quality kit is an investment.
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
If you're looking close to £2k I'd seriously consider Profoto or Broncolor, not meaning to influence you just trying to help your awareness of what's around. Profoto especially are supported very well internationally by hire centres and good studios. By spending £1800 or so it's evident you've got serious intentions, top quality kit is an investment.
Click to expand...

+1. You can get a second hand pro 7b for that. Amazing light and modifiers. Or buy Danny's bron...
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
If you're looking close to £2k I'd seriously consider Profoto or Broncolor
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So your signature doesn't apply to lights then..... ;)

Personally if I was buying Profotos or Bron then I'd want a minimum budget of £3K. Acute B value pack is £2,500 list and that only leaves £500 for modifiers.

Second hand would save a chunk of that but it would be a mistake to spend all your budget on lights and not have anything left for the cool mods. Plus you'd be a fool not to upgrade to the LiFe battery.

It's quite scary how costs mount up when you look at these brands.
 
JonathanRyan said:
So your signature doesn't apply to lights then..... ;)
Click to expand...

It applies to everything. Hobbyists happily spank £1700 or whatever on a D700 or canon 5dii, £1100 on a 70-200, but then want to spend £xxx on lights. It's fair enough if they don't shoot people, but those that do skimp in the wrong places IMO.
 
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