Dear Fat People - swearing content

[dejongj]

I have some sympathy for the OP, albeit the opening post could have had a bit more context, perhaps a little less crude by some other, and I also don't tend to stalk cross threads to try and guess motifs.

It seems a topic that attracts some kind of taboo where it can't be discussed. For an issue that is such a ticking timebomb I find it odd. It is no secret that many health problems caused are directly linked, and not just that but also the subsequent enhancements that need to be made to various services like stretchers, beds, door openings, multiple people involved, and not limited to first response services either.

I am obese myself, and most definitely can do with loosing the final 2-3 stone. And no doubt about it that after I left the Airbourne Infantry more food and less exercise on a continued increase has caused that.

And yes I do find it annoying when any type of person, stranger to me, intrudes on my space be it on a plane, train wherever. Size hasn't necessarily got primacy in such occasions, the skinny bloke on the train who can't seem to keep his legs together and spreads his legs in front of three seats is just as annoying as the fat person who just doesn't fit on the seat regardless of how they would try.

Theme parks is another akward experience. On Ramses revenge in chessington the staff had to relocate a rather large chap. He was protesting and making a lot of fuss where nobody would have noticed normally. But the thing was severely imbalanced and wouldn't operate due to his weight. And the woman next to me on the next run was so big that I couldn't raise my arms to hold on to the bars. Flipping annoying, not just because I couldn't hold on, but also being forced to be so close to rub skin for the whole ride.

Anyway as I've got time to kill on the train, Virgin trains with decent width seats , I am rambling on.

I don't care what anyone does. I am not offended by fat people, nor drunks etc. but I do think sensible discussions need to be held as this will be the biggest issue and the root cause for so many problems going forward. Just go into any school, say year 6 or year 7 and the size of the generation coming through makes me sad as from such a young age it will be very hard to recover.

Everyone is entitled to their own choice, mine is to continue working on loosing the stones the hard way; exercise and right diet. And ensuring that the next generation I'm bringing up is aware and focussed on remaining active and eating healthily.


So yes I do think this should be discussed and the OP has a valid point bringing it up.

 

[BillN_33]

In actual fact Bill, you are incorrect.
Airline rules on checked in baggage weight has nnothing whatsoever to do with passenger weight or volume.

The reason for the continuing increase is that passenger airlines can make more money from taking on additional commercial freight than they can from your luggage, and in these times where everything seems to have to be at its destination the day before it leaves, the airlines can charge more and more for hold cargo

The issue of passenger weight has never been a factor in the cost of airline travel, it has always been baggage.

The only time size (not weight) becomes an issue for passenger flight is if the passenger cannot physically fit into a single seat (and has not purchased an additional seat) or if the seatbelt cannot fasten across their lap even when using an extension.

It really is not that simple, from a number of aspects.

but to simply it, there are two main areas - safety and the commercial operation of flights

Safety - please refer to aircraft weights, take off and landings, maybe and look at smaller planes and how sensitive they are to being over weight - it is important to fly a safe aircraft and weight is extremely important - predictable versus actual.

Financial - again complicated, but the following are relevant to the discussion
- passenger baggage = weight predictable, cost accurately estimated - passenger baggage weights are being tightly controlled because of the increase in passenger weights - not freight carried
- any freight taken = weight accurately calculated, charged on volume and weight ...... can always be controlled - cost accurately determined
- passenger weight - estimates made based on average - now out of date - same total fare charged and not dependant of weight = now becoming an uncontrollable variable

the above are now extremely important because of increased passenger weights

lots of evidence - airlines should be thinking about taking less passengers or find alternative solutions, both from the safety and costing standpoints, (costing plan now need to be reviewed)

there is lots of evidence on the web plus lots that is not

there is an obvious solution that the industry is turning to

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/t...RS-boarding-overweight-fliers-kept-plane.html

OK you don't like the daily Mail

This is only the "thin end of the wedge" - US airlines has been extremely concerned about this issue for some time, but they are afraid to publish their findings publicly because of the obvious

studies are being done and solutions sort .... but at the end of the day there is little that the Airlines can do about obesity apart from recognise it and charge for it

All things being equal Airlines now need to take less passengers because they are getting fatter

from a cost point of view - all weight on an aircraft needs to be accurately estimated and charged for

Viv - i am sure that you will find stuff on the web if you look

start here

https://www.ivao.aero/training/documentation/books/SPP_aircraft_weight.pdf

then look at the costing aspects of airline operations

carried freight has little to do with it - small passenger planes carry little freight

My views on aircraft safety and costings do not come from the web

It is the last I am going to comment on the subject, as it is too important to trivialise, as is being done on here ......... the next time you land with a bump, think about it

 

[viv1969]

It is the last I am going to say on the subject,

Oh I doubt that.

Small commercial passenger planes carry more freight than they do either baggage or passengers. And they'll bump passengers in favour of freight. They do it every day. If you're ever told the flight is overbooked, there's a chance it's not with passengers.

I don't need to find out or quote questionable articles.
It's my job to know.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Interesting stat on R4 this morning. Smoking is no longer the biggest cause of illness and death in the UK. It's junk food.

That's according to the NHS - not (just) the Mail.

 

[JonathanRyan]

studies are being done and solutions sort .... but at the end of the day there is little that the Airlines can do about obesity apart from recognise it and charge for it

All things being equal Airlines now need to take less passengers because they are getting fatter

from a cost point of view - all weight on an aircraft needs to be accurately estimated and charged for

...

My views on aircraft safety and costings do not come from the web

Serious question since you know more about this than I can easily Google......

Let's take a fully loaded 747 ready for takeoff. What percentage of the weight is (1) the plane (2) the fuel (3) the passengers (4) the luggage (5) freight? How does the weight of the passengers differ from the "standard" weight that they work to. (IIRC they set the assumed weight of passengers years ago and apart from local variations it hasn't changed in a while).

 

[Mr Bump]

We went on a diving holiday a few years ago, we were getting a blue 02 live aboard out of Hurghada so flying in to there.
There was a group of about 8 people near us all talking about how they were going to a full all inclusive and they were going to cane it.

I swear the aircraft was struggling to fly straight

My main reason for just stopping caring about obesity and its issues is it wont affect me, I eat well exercise a lot and take real care of my body and have pride in it as well, yes of course I may get some of the things associated with it like diabetes and other illnesses as we all do risk just being alive, I will take my chances with that.

 

[jakeblu]

To the psychology of those big buggers down the shopping mall I think it means everything.

To the OP though I kinda feel the pain, sitting next to a beast of burden on a flight is pretty grim with all the spillage.

I tend to eat a curry, shed loads of garlic and chick peas before I fly.
I once had one woman get up from her seat and exclaim loudly "Who on earth keeps making those foul smells" my wife was almost crying with laughter.

And I thought you claimed to be a christian, still what did I expect, its the usually hypocrisy.

 

[Mr Bump]

And I thought you were a christian, still what did I expect, its the usually hypocrisy.

I firmly believe in helping those that want to be helped or are incapable of helping themselves, people that over eat to the point of being barely able to function in society and become a burden on healthcare, society and familys through gluttony can fend for themselves.

 

[jakeblu]

I firmly believe in helping those that want to be helped or are incapable of helping themselves, people that over eat to the point of being barely able to function in society and become a burden on healthcare, society and familys through gluttony can fend for themselves.

And yet the number of overweight people are growing, according to recent statistics, near 70% of men are overweight and yes I am aware some of those will be marginal, but overweight all the same. Why do you think that might be, perhaps they're all just gluttonous overeaters with no self control or maybe there are other reasons. At what point might you acknowledge that overweight is not always simply a personal choice, when the figures reach 80% or 90%. Oh I forgot gluttony is a sin, maybe that explains your crass attitude

 

[Llamaman]

Oh I forgot gluttony is a sin, maybe that explains your crass attitude

Only if he thinks he's perfect "let him who is without sin cast the first stone"...

 

[Mr Bump]

Only if he thinks he's perfect "let him who is without sin cast the first stone"...

Actually I don't follow those rules. It seems to be an assumption nowadays that anyone that has faith, also has a copy of the old testament on the bedside locker.

I'm just focused on supporting those that genuinely need help and support, such as the recent humanitarian crisis in Syria recently discussed in great length on other threads.

 

[Llamaman]

Actually I don't follow those rules. It seems to be an assumption nowadays that anyone that has faith, also has a copy of the old testament on the bedside locker.

Umm, it's a paraphrase of Jesus, so the New Testament... John 8:7 to be precise.

 

[ChasG]

I believe that there is some justification in the 'economic' model of flying weights. It is somewhat like the Virgin, Sky, Giff gaff etc who advertise a ridiculously low price for their service but in small print there is the "+£x" for the landline.

WOW have just announced transatlantic flights for £99 which adds up to nearly £160 by the time you have checked luggage, added a sandwich and a bottle of water - for an 8 hour plus flight.

 

[JonathanRyan]

I believe that there is some justification in the 'economic' model of flying weights. It is somewhat like the Virgin, Sky, Giff gaff etc who advertise a ridiculously low price for their service but in small print there is the "+£x" for the landline.

I agree. But I wish the aggregators would take this into account. It's hard to spot that a £120 flight on BA is cheaper than a £90 flight on Easyjet unless you know that BA include 23 kilos of luggage and Easyjet charge you £34 per bag.

And yes, I just spent half the morning on Skyscanner. My best find was a fare that went from £90ish to £543 when I tried to book it. And that's without adding options. The airlines lie.

BTW Kayak kind of let you include this but their site hurts my head.

 

[viv1969]

An As-and-when-it-suits-me christian.

No faith required, just a hefty dollop of hypocrisy.

 

[ZoneV]

My main reason for just stopping caring about obesity and its issues is it wont affect me, I eat well exercise a lot and take real care of my body and have pride in it as well.

Is that from the bit in the Bible about compassion?

"And lo, Jesus did say, in the glory of God: 'I shall no longer care for fatties for I of small plate and pressy-uppy shall never experience their plight."

 

[Cobra]

Jesus stumbles across a crowd about to stone a woman for adultery, he steps forward and says

"let him who is without sin cast the first stone"...

A little old lady steps out from the rear of the assembled rabble, and throws a hefty stone hitting the woman between the eyes dropping her to the ground.

Jesus stands there, hands on hips, turns to the woman and says,
MOTHER! sometimes, you really p*** me off!

 

[dejongj]

And yet the number of overweight people are growing, according to recent statistics, near 70% of men are overweight and yes I am aware some of those will be marginal, but overweight all the same. Why do you think that might be, perhaps they're all just gluttonous overeaters with no self control or maybe there are other reasons. At what point might you acknowledge that overweight is not always simply a personal choice, when the figures reach 80% or 90%. Oh I forgot gluttony is a sin, maybe that explains your crass attitude

It doesn't just happen overnight, so yes I think very few actively choose that end result. However, that doesn't takeaway to choice to deal with which is available to most. And sure I appreciate when you are in it together it is really hard to break that habit, I would never suggest it is easy. But until personal responsibility it taken to do something about it, it won't go away by itself.

 

[SFTPhotography]

Maybe we should charge more for people with colds. ..risking my health with their foul germs.:

I wish they did. There's nothing worse than sitting on a train and someone loaded with cold etc sits next to you. You just know in two days that'll be you.

I agree with the OP on the OP. If someone cannot fit into a seat or fits into a seat but spills over causing discomfort and an invasion of space to the next person they should be charged for two seats and given two.

 

[viv1969]

I wish they did. There's nothing worse than sitting on a train and someone loaded with cold etc sits next to you. You just know in two days that'll be you.

I agree with the OP on the OP. If someone cannot fit into a seat or fits into a seat but spills over causing discomfort and an invasion of space to the next person they should be charged for two seats and given two.

The point is, if a person reaches those criteria, that is already what happens. That's what the OP seems unable (read unwilling) to grasp.

He seems simply to have chosen this particular crusade in order to vent his spleen, but his choice of language and tone simply reveals his deep dislike for anyone with a BMI of over 27.

 

[dejongj]

The point is, if a person reaches those criteria, that is already what happens. That's what the OP seems unable (read unwilling) to grasp.

He seems simply to have chosen this particular crusade in order to vent his spleen, but his choice of language and tone simply reveals his deep dislike for anyone with a BMI of over 27.

Is it really Ruth? Maybe they get charged but definitely don't get two seats, I mean if that is the case then how come we experience the discomfort and violation of personal space?

Btw. I can't imagine multiple seats makes it any more comfortable for the person involved either.

Ps. I class wide armed skinny newspaper readers in the same category as the net result is the same.

 

[BillN_33]

The point is, if a person reaches those criteria, that is already what happens. That's what the OP seems unable (read unwilling) to grasp.

He seems simply to have chosen this particular crusade in order to vent his spleen, but his choice of language and tone simply reveals his deep dislike for anyone with a BMI of over 27.

Unfortunately in my opinion you are delusional, (read what I have said), most of what you say and have said in this and the other thread that you partake in is misleading - the only value in what you say is that it has no value

 

[Cobra]

Having discussed the myriad of RTM's that have come in about this thread, and the few sly digs that have carried over to other threads,
the Staff at TP regret to inform you that this thread has passed away.