Criticism constructive or otherwise

MatBin

MatBin

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matt
Edit My Images
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So, a post of images from Silverstone results in the images being removed by the OP because comments were made describing technical errors, to my eyes hard to see.

Would we all benefit from some examples of how an image can be transformed from good to brilliant, would any PP wizard care to give examples and advise?

I can crop, increase/decrease overall exposure and sharpen but to my eyes the photos that were posted look pretty good, actually damn good, so personally I would really appreciate a run through of how to improve, or do we have this help hidden some place on TP?

Matt
 
Commenting is a delicate matter. Egos and insecurities are involved.

The internet, if not probably life too, is a loose cannon. I'd say wander widely, and take what works. Forget the rest.
 
If the crit is on PP then surely the poster can request to be shown how to improve? isn't that what "edit my images" is for ?
 
It's not criticism, it's critique :p

I don't understand why some people post images and then get upset at the critique. In this particular case the OP appears to have not expected any critique and didn't have the capacity to deal with it. It's his loss, there's not a lot can be done, I'm sure a rational conversation over a pint would work but that's not an option.

I can't help but find it 'odd' when someone presents as 'pro' and then behaves everything but, but there's plenty of that here over the years.
 
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The whole point of these photo sections is to give critique on how ones photos can be improved - well it was at one point.

A lot of it seems to be going the way of Facebook-type "Lovely shot", "great capture", etc.

I feel uncomfortable now offering critique as, if I'm the only one that critiques the image in the thread, it may come across as being mean (to those with less than thick skin).

My photos go up so that I can see how to improve next time. Often, someone spots something too that you may have totally overlooked!
 
Phil V said:
It's not criticism, it's critique :p

I don't understand why some people post images and then get upset at the critique. In this particular case the OP appears to have not expected any critique and didn't have the capacity to deal with it. It's his loss, there's not a lot can be done, I'm sure a rational conversation over a pint would work but that's not an option.

I can't help but find it 'odd' when someone presents as 'pro' and then behaves everything but, but there's plenty of that here over the years.
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I agree Phil, it is critique and should be taken onboard and not dismissed as criticism, but there are some on here who push their own critique on others and yet when you view their shots you would cringe as their advice only becomes hypocrisy ;)
 
I've not seen the post tbh so don't know what the criticism was. However, I have seen some that some 'critique' can be quite harsh and can understand why some people get upset. There's ways to constructively critique and was not to.
 
Just had a quick look at the original post, can`t say anything rude was said, but if you want folk to say, WOW that`s a fantastic shot and colours then social media is great. Some folk don`t mind being told try this or that, others don`t. That is how we all learn I thought.
 
Dave70D said:
Just had a quick look at the original post, can`t say anything rude was said, but if you want folk to say, WOW that`s a fantastic shot and colours then social media is great. Some folk don`t mind being told try this or that, others don`t. That is how we all learn I thought.
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Absolutely, that's why I started this thread, but I wanted examples of before and after.
Matt
 
MatBin said:
Absolutely, that's why I started this thread, but I wanted examples of before and after.
Matt
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Many years ago I was a member on a site, and for a shot I got, OH Dave the robin is not in focus and the eye is not sharp. I went away had a look and thought, right it was a bad shot, but I learnt then to always make sure you get a sharp eye.
 
There many, many skilled photographers here, so if you stick up an image be prepared for some honest critique along with the back slapping you're looking for (or hoped for).
 
MatBin said:
I wanted examples of before and after.
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…not possible when the poster has NO for edit, Matt.


To put it simply, Matt, the shots were great captures
but the level of shooting was not supported by the
proposed renditions.

My comment was based on observable inconsistent…
  • WB
  • DRL
  • saturation etc
These, among others, are taking a bunch of cool ca-
tures to the level of SET that is coherent in terms of
luminance, chrominance, graphic elements and story
telling.
 
I never post photos on here. While it could be argued that all critique is valid, it's hard to know who is giving qualified advice and who is not. I've seen some appalling critique recently from someone who was clearly unfamiliar with the genre, and judging from his other recent posts comments, was probably trolling, which is no use to anyone whatsoever.
 
viewfromthenorth said:
I never post photos on here. While it could be argued that all critique is valid, it's hard to know who is giving qualified advice and who is not. I've seen some appalling critique recently from someone who was clearly unfamiliar with the genre, and judging from his other recent posts comments, was probably trolling, which is no use to anyone whatsoever.
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But then if you're aware of that then surely you can take on board the helpful stuff and ignore the trolling/bad advice couldn't you?
 
snerkler said:
But then if you're aware of that then surely you can take on board the helpful stuff and ignore the trolling/bad advice couldn't you?
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It's more the principle - I don't have time to sort the wheat from the chaff. However, I'm fortunate to have other avenues for face to face feedback and critique from people whose opinions I value and whose experience is either well documented or I know to be far in excess of my own [emoji3]
 
viewfromthenorth said:
I never post photos on here. While it could be argued that all critique is valid, it's hard to know who is giving qualified advice and who is not. I've seen some appalling critique recently from someone who was clearly unfamiliar with the genre, and judging from his other recent posts comments, was probably trolling, which is no use to anyone whatsoever.
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Think I can see where your coming from, but say a Pro F1 photographer puts up some shots and a Pro Wedding photographer comments, he might not know about F1 but he will 100% know about how to get the lighting and colours right.
 
I've been posting my macro shots specifically looking for critique. Praise is good but it doesn't help me grow unless it's done with the specific intent to encourage and let me know I am doing better. Luckily in the macros section it seems to be a fairly close knit group of people who feed back so you do get that growth.

But not sure why anyone would post images on a forum and not expect comment. Glory chasing is for social media and Flickr.
 
I do feel some members critique for critique sake. Also some critique (I'm not a fan of the word critique, I prefer the word feedback) without giving advice on how to improve, just this is wrong or that is wrong. Although the majority of members are fair and knowledgeable, it only takes one bad comment to put someone off of posting again.
 
viewfromthenorth said:
it's hard to know who is giving qualified advice and who is not.
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Based on the idea that "photography" is just another way
to spell "communication", anyone viewing a picture is so.

I too took the decision not post anymore my professional
work anywhere… for all different reasons; I post, however,
anything else.

I am here because — taking the example of the experien-
ced birders — I am looking for inspiration, tips, as birding
is not my interest but birds give me good opportunities with
the marsh almost at my door step.

My biggest surprise came when a birder, new to photogra-
phy, jump in one day teaching me how to look at them and
how to predict what they might do next so one may be pre-
pared for a given séquence.

There are many ways to help one another…
 
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I don't critique on here because I am in no way qualified... But the reason I post photos is for people to tell me where I went right and more importantly where I went wrong and how it could be improved.
 
Dave70D said:
Glad I saw these…
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Yes Dave, I saw these too but did not comment then.

And though I cannot speak for Steven, my comments
would apply 1:1 exactly to that thread too.
 
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keef32 said:
I don't critique on here because I am in no way qualified... But the reason I post photos is for people to tell me where I went right and more importantly where I went wrong and how it could be improved.
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everyone is qualified to give an opinion on a photograph, especially if its constructive. Being able to say what could be improved in someone else's photo is as much part of learning as others doing so on your own work
 
Think it all comes down to whether you want reasonably honest discussion of your photos or "wow like amazing awarded you a s*** load of gold spangly stars" type comments
 
giving critique, feedback, helpful advice to some people is a waste of breath ............. I hardly bother anymore ......... I'm also not sure if some of the Mods want it anyway ....... as I have never seen much support to enforce the true meaning of the "critique forums"

I only frequent the "Bird Forum" ...... which IMHO has only gone one way in the last year
 
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There aren't many photos that don't have a positive, but it's not always pointed out, it generally only seems to be the negative (or thing that can be improved upon). This can be disheartening to beginners or novices.
 
It is hard work to make comments on a photograph that are effective and constructive feedback. It is too easy though to throw in some response about something or other needing fixing or I like it or I don't like. Usually comments are too short (initially anyway) to be constructive, by which time the recipient starts defending the photograph instead of asking for an explanation and it goes downhill very fast.
 
MatBin said:
Would we all benefit from some examples of how an image can be transformed from good to brilliant, would any PP wizard care to give examples and advise?
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It's hard to provide an example w/o a problem image to start with. White balance and DR issues are quite common... to a certain extent there is no such thing as "right/wrong." If you want the image to have an overall green cast I can't say "it's wrong," but I can say "I don't think it works/fits." But the problem is if you are unaware of it and it wasn't an intentional choice. Some of it also comes down to monitor calibration/differences and there's only so much that can be done there.

I participate in another group that is strictly critique based, and due to similar issues frequently occurring in submitted images I made a video on correcting them... I hope this is the kind of thing you were looking for.

View: https://youtu.be/2lMZJzcFFD4
 
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TLR-330 said:
It is hard work to make comments on a photograph that are effective and constructive feedback. It is too easy though to throw in some response about something or other needing fixing or I like it or I don't like. Usually comments are too short (initially anyway) to be constructive, by which time the recipient starts defending the photograph instead of asking for an explanation and it goes downhill very fast.
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For me it is often a lot easier to provide constructive feedback by providing a quick example edit showing what I'm talking about... but if that's not allowed then I may not comment at all.
 
Nostromo said:
There aren't many photos that don't have a positive, but it's not always pointed out, it generally only seems to be the negative (or thing that can be improved upon). This can be disheartening to beginners or novices.
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I always try to start with something positive... but I'm not going to baby someone.
 
I somewhat suspect a ulterior motive for this thread being posted.

For my mind the crit given by Kodiak and SK66 was almost certainly spot on - and that's said despite not having seen the original images.

How can I possibly know that?

By reading what they wrote and then looking at previous threads started by the same poster.

The same errors are consistent throughout his sets. Variable processing with inconsistent contrast, saturation, WB and levels. Subtle but there none the less.

The poster threw a paddy and pulled his images. That's despite posting in a sub-forum that's specifically designed for C&C.

No one is perfect. Everyone can improve but acting like a primadona is a surefire way of being certain that you never will.
 
Dave70D said:
I think anyone who takes photos can give a comment as I call it, they might say, try taking the shot lower or at this angle or that. Photography forums are for learning and helping each other to take a better photo.
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But you can say what you like, and what you don't like, and why... You can say "That's a very good image, but I think the WB is a bit off" or something similar....
 
It saddens me to see such reaction on well put constructive critique given. I agree, from other pics posted, on what's been said about the location work being great but being let down by not consistent PP, e.g. some pics seems oversharpened. Really to bad since the talent and possibilities are there.
 
DemiLion said:
I somewhat suspect a ulterior motive for this thread being posted
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Absolutely 100% not true, you may think I am having a pop at someone, or some people but I can assure you that is not the case.

My reason was as stated, I personally thought the shots were good, sadly they couldn't be edited to show what Kodiak and Steven were saying, they have repeated their comments here, which may well be valid, I honestly don't think I have the experience to comment on their views without seeing examples of before and after editing.
I asked for examples because saying for examples WB off, dynamic range could be improved etc is something I would love to be shown in a before and after edit.
Steven kindly attached a link to a video and I will try and view that shortly.

I don't think I am alone in needing examples to show me how a photo out of the camera in raw format can be improved, I have no problem being told it's just me that needs theses examples and everyone else understands exactly what comments mean, regardless of who makes them.

Matt
 
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