Controversial - but here goes

Llamaman said:
I used to post a bit in Talk Beginners and Equipment when I first started, but young children have meant photography has taken a bit of a backseat in recent years (and what I do take, I don't share because I'm crap).
But I quite liked hanging out in OOF so carried on chipping in here. I hadn't realised how much my presence was despised by the old guard [emoji24]
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Taking crap photos doesn't stop me posting :)
And "despised" is a bit strong ;)
 
Cobra said:
Yes there is a "Talk photography section"
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So it actually shouldn't be that surprising if people come here to, er, 'talk photography' without sharing pictures?
What about people who just appreciate photography done by others but have no interest in creating their own? Surely they'd be welcome here too?

If you want to restrict access to only people who contribute, fair enough. But contributions should not be judged only on sharing pictures, surely?
 
I don't see an issue. I pop in now and again especially the hot topic bit to see who's baiting who. I think OOF is great for other hobbies/interests we all share.
 
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Gremlin said:
I believe, I think I;d have to ask how to take a decent picture first :D
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You and me, both!!!

Cobra said:
Sorry can't help with that, save suggest you swap to canon ( OUCH! :D )
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Nah! Fuji's the way to go! :P

I used to post more in the equipment section but since I've got my GAS fairly well controlled, the threads to which I could make sensible (and occasionally useful!) contributions have had pretty much every answer possible given to almost every possible question, so adding more would be a waste of effort and forum bandwidth! From time to time I look at most of the photo sections to see if there's anything to which I can make a helpful contribution but again, most points I would raise have already been covered. I have even been known to post a few snaps of my own but they're either perfect or I'm not in the right clique to get many (if any!) responses.
 
Llamaman said:
If you want to restrict access to only people who contribute, fair enough. But contributions should not be judged only on sharing pictures, surely?
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Back up a bit, I've not said what side of the fence I'm on, :p

For what its worth, I'm all in favour of an unrestricted (access) OoF
It would be nice if people did take more time to use the photo sharing forums, but as the saying goes you can lead a Llama horse to water, but you can't make it drink :)
 
Who's to say posts in OOH don't contribute to the forum???
 
This is a great community, wouldn't it be fair to keep it 'focussed' on its main purpose?

I will compare it to another, non photographic, forum I post on.

My other forum is vibrant and lively. Posts get answers almost immediately. There is a huge range of knowledge. The site is divided into only 2 sections - on topic and off topic.
Now and again someone puts up a post similar to Phils idea It always gets shot down, politely. People see it as a club where they can discuss on topic but can also ask and get answers to almost any subject - things that come up are car repairs, plastering, shed building, relationship advice, politics, which breed of dog should I get, best place to buy kichenware etc etc. Its fantastic as people log on to the forum all the time, just for random chat, but it also means they are there to spot the on topic stuff and give quick answers. I have been a member for oh, 7 or 8 years. Its fantastic. Best of all, it keeps the forum alive.

Over the years I have searched for new photographic forums and found loads that tried to launch ande for failed, or that worked for a long while, then the best contributors got bored and moved on and gradually the forums get quieter and then die.

The trouble is, on any forum, there are only so many questions people can ask and after a couple of years, just like photography magazines, the same topics go around all over again. Long term people run out of stuff to ask and get bored of replying to the same questions time after time.

The other forum i attend is incredibly strong over a long time span, simply because whenever you log on, there is always some question you have never come across before and perspectives on issues that can be thought provoking and really helpful and supportive. it has a real sense of community and plenty of regulars, so amazingly people do not get 'lost in the crowd' despite the activity level being high.

It seems a very effective model for a very active forum and seems to ensure a long site life span.
 
phil phil phil ,what a silly idea ,i'm quiet sure your aware as a few of us are that certain members can be baited or indeed sometimes can't even wait for that and rush in with innocuous replies ,to what is a trivial question to start with .its what makes the OOF worth logging into ,how much my camera /lens/flashgun willy waving does one have to read before it becomes as boring as a stubbly chinned bloke from south yorkshire :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::whistle::whistle::whistle::bat::bat::bat:
 
Gremlin said:
H's not alone in that, in fact I can think of at least one person that I have never seen post outside of this forum;)
Should they be excluded, nope, annoying though they can be I do find them a source of amusement
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Kind of you to notice, I always aim to please. (y)
My contributions would have been in the motorsport and transport section, a lot of which would have been before you joined. Most of my photos I submitted for critique etc. got little response, even though I asked people to be brutally honest in their critique or suggestions in how I could improve, being a novice, I wasn't really able to offer advice or critique on others photos, but I would post stating what I liked and how I could produce similar. Photography is nothing but a pass time for me, for the past few years or so I pick up a camera probably about 10 times a year. I spend a short while taking a few photos and spend the rest of the time enjoying the motorsport instead. Maybe one day I will get my interest in photography back.

In the mean time, as you say, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to contribute in OOF/HT on subjects where I feel I can have an input. Especially as it is a section that has sweet FA to do with photography.
Perhaps we should have a restriction on how many times people can post in any one category as they don't post in all the others.
 
Phil V said:
This is a great community, wouldn't it be fair to keep it 'focussed' on its main purpose?
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I don't agree with your proposal, Phil, but it did make me wonder whether I spend too much time in OOF. So I had a look at the stats on my 9,084 posts:
  • 39% Talk Equipment
  • 17% Talk Photography
  • 17% Out Of Focus (incl Hot Topics)
  • 27% other photography related forums
I can live with that.
 
StewartR said:
I don't agree with your proposal, Phil, but it did make me wonder whether I spend too much time in OOF. So I had a look at the stats on my 9,084 posts:
  • 39% Talk Equipment
  • 17% Talk Photography
  • 17% Out Of Focus (incl Hot Topics)
  • 27% other photography related forums
I can live with that.
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Just to confirm as a lot of people appear to have misunderstood.

It's a question not a proposal, some have gone as far as arguing I'd suggested removing OoF completely, it's a symptom of the worst of what's wrong with this section isn't it?
 
Ah but if we didn't have a OOF section you wouldn't be able to post this would you :agree::LOL:
 
In general, the fewer rules, or imitations, or barriers, the better.

If it's not strictly needed, don't do it!

Each rule erodes people's satisfaction to a small degree. And for newbies, it can easily put them off due to the increased confusion, that may seem fine to 'insiders'.
 
ianp5a said:
In general, the fewer rules, or imitations, or barriers, the better.

If it's not strictly needed, don't do it!

Each rule erodes people's satisfaction to a small degree. And for newbies, it can easily put them off due to the increased confusion, that may seem fine to 'insiders'.
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Totally agree with you (and the Ford fella).

I doubt if many misunderstood the stirring nature of the OP!
 
I don't think restricting access to OOF would have any positive impact tbh - it would just drive people away and potentially reduce the 'community' feeling (if there is such a thing).

The question of why there is not more activity in other areas is I think a symptom of 'you get out what you put in' and too many members are not willing to put much in. I don't really hold with the 'I can't add anything' argument... everyone has an opinion. Even if you are not technically proficient you can appreciate and comment on a photo.
 
I also had a look at my own split though out of interest - only 10% in oof. I thought it would be higher!
 
It's no big deal is it? People sign up to a photography forum, spout off about almost every subject under the sun as if they are an expert on almost everything under the sun, but offer virtually no input with regards to the nature of the forum (photography, in case you've forgotten). Not hurting anyone. I just find it very odd that they don't spout off on forums where the subject is what they like rattling about; i'm sure they have photo sub forums they can 'look' at and offer no comments. :D
 
Daysleeper40 said:
I don't really hold with the 'I can't add anything' argument... everyone has an opinion. Even if you are not technically proficient you can appreciate and comment on a photo.
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I agree with you Fi, but I think part of the problem is some folk take offence/get defensive @ C&C, even from more experienced members of the forum, let alone newer members, which has a knock on effect unfortunately.
 
OldCarlos said:
I agree with you Fi, but I think part of the problem is some folk take offence/get defensive @ C&C, even from more experienced members of the forum, let alone newer members, which has a knock on effect unfortunately.
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Oh don't they just... I think some members take themselves a bit too seriously tbh and could do with just generally trying to be a bit kinder. This is nothing new though - I distinctly recall being made to feel very small by one individual about my lack of knowledge / modest kit on my first posts here. It was a bit disheartening but the difference was that there were a lot more people to offset that with helpful comments or just willing to join in the conversation in a constructive way. I think as members you need to be in it not just for yourself or to receive as many postitive comments / likes as possible - but to have a genuine interest in other peoples efforts and everyone advancing their skills.
 
Daysleeper40 said:
I think a symptom of 'you get out what you put in' and too many members are not willing to put much in.
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There is always that of course!

Daysleeper40 said:
everyone has an opinion.
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They certainly do in OoF anyway :D


nickEnackEnoo said:
i'm sure they have photo sub forums they can 'look' at and offer no comments. :D
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Yep its called Photos for pleasure :thumbs:

Daysleeper40 said:
but to have a genuine interest in other peoples efforts and everyone advancing their skills
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Well put Fi :thumbs:
 
I think limiting access to OOF would spoil it. While some people's views are alarming, to say the least, it can be very useful for advice on a range of topics outside photography and would be a shame to limit input.
c.35% of my posts have been in OOF.
 
If you restricted OOF to people who also only contributed to other sections I think it would go one of two ways:

You'd get a lot of people leaving/not making any contribution.

Or

You'd get people putting inane "nice shot" comments to keep up their OOF privileges.

This forum is friendly and busy, there's lots of contributions to all the sections and it's a good balance of technical and off topic talk. As far as I'm concerned it ain't broke, so why fix it?
 
boogie man said:
If you restricted OOF to people who also only contributed to other sections I think it would go one of two ways:

You'd get a lot of people leaving/not making any contribution.

Or

You'd get people putting inane "nice shot" comments to keep up their OOF privileges.

This forum is friendly and busy, there's lots of contributions to all the sections and it's a good balance of technical and off topic talk. As far as I'm concerned it ain't broke, so why fix it?
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Yup.
And I've got plenty of those pictures..
 
I can't see the point on restricting OOF access based on post ratio system, the two sides of the forum aren't compatible that way.

But IF you wanted to impose some kind of restriction, a better way would be to have the OOF section inaccessible to any new member until they had been here 30 day and a post count of x, for example.
I can't understand why anyone would sign up to a common interest forum only to be able to take part in the OOF section. Surely people sign up here for photography first and foremost, then start taking part in the OOF sections once they have been around a while and become part of the community. Those restrictions wouldn't stop that or cause anyone to lose access should they have a quiet period in their photography.
 
bass_junkie83 said:
I can't see the point on restricting OOF access based on post ratio system, the two sides of the forum aren't compatible that way.

But IF you wanted to impose some kind of restriction, a better way would be to have the OOF section inaccessible to any new member until they had been here 30 day and a post count of x, for example.
I can't understand why anyone would sign up to a common interest forum only to be able to take part in the OOF section. Surely people sign up here for photography first and foremost, then start taking part in the OOF sections once they have been around a while and become part of the community. Those restrictions wouldn't stop that or cause anyone to lose access should they have a quiet period in their photography.
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That's what they do over at the manual focus forum. They restrict access to the photographer's cafe area, actually, it can't be seen by guests, only members.
 
Phil V said:
there was a bit of a kerfuffle a couple of years ago when the mods decided that as this is a 'forum for talking about photography' trading privileges would be limited to those who contribute to the community.

Here's the cintroversial bit:

Why don't we do the same for Out of focus / hot topics?

This is a great community, wouldn't it be fair to keep it 'focussed' on its main purpose?
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I get what you are saying, but as someone who had lost their enthusiasm for photography over the last year (apart from today) ..... but enjoy the "community", what's the point of me saying "nice pic" every now and again?
 
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