Controversial - but here goes

Phil V

Phil V

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Phil
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No
there was a bit of a kerfuffle a couple of years ago when the mods decided that as this is a 'forum for talking about photography' trading privileges would be limited to those who contribute to the community.

Here's the cintroversial bit:

Why don't we do the same for Out of focus / hot topics?

This is a great community, wouldn't it be fair to keep it 'focussed' on its main purpose?
 
I can see where you are coming from, but for me when you join a forum such as this, with so many people with expert knowledge it can be hard to actually add anything constructive to the main topic. Where as commenting on out of focus points is "easier". It can sort of ease you in on subjects you are a bit more confident about.

Is there really a general issue or is there just a couple may be even just one person abusing it.

I would be worried about throwing the bathwater out with the screaming obnoxious baby!
 
Phil V said:
there was a bit of a kerfuffle a couple of years ago when the mods decided that as this is a 'forum for talking about photography' trading privileges would be limited to those who contribute to the community.

Here's the cintroversial bit:

Why don't we do the same for Out of focus / hot topics?

This is a great community, wouldn't it be fair to keep it 'focussed' on its main purpose?
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I'm not sure I understand Phil. Are you suggesting that access to Out of Focus/Hot Topics is limited to those who also contribute to other parts of the forum?
 
Ricardodaforce said:
I'm not sure I understand Phil. Are you suggesting that access to Out of Focus/Hot Topics is limited to those who also contribute to other parts of the forum?
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As a fixed percentage (to be agreed by the mods)
It is after all a photography forum. :)
 
What about the lurkers? I don't mind posting in OOF, but wouldn't really post much in other areas. Yes I've posted in video, and also asked for critique in the Urban section, but other than that, I wouldn't really be able to contribute worthwhile posts elsewhere other than "Nice pic", "love the x,y,z in this shot" etc.....

Yet if someone was to post in OOF about a recent issue with eBay, or online sales issue, then boom - I'm an expert in that area. But if a x% rule was applied, I may not be able to post a reply to help.
 
Meh. I think it's almost part of human nature to talk not only about common, shared interests but then to expand out of that area. Every forum that I've joined has an off-topic area, which then grows larger than the rest of the subject-relevant fora as the membership increases.

What will probably happen next is that older (ie long-standing), well-known or very active members then decide things have changed too much and leave (though sometimes for other reasons eg no longer interested in the subject, have time for it, etc). The forum will dwindle down. Fewer people post and the forum is shadow of its former self. The "glory days" are gone. Sometimes, those who have left decide to make a new forum about the subject matter and the whole thing starts again.
 
@Phil V it's something I've come close to suggesting myself. When you look at someone's profile and see an OOF/HT ratio approaching 70% you wonder why they're here. Particularly when they're prominently trolling the same limited range of topics.

I agree with your proposal to impose a ratio based system. I'd even go further a suggest that there be a limit on the number of threads one user could start in these sections per week/month. I've seen the thread list in OOF with almost half the threads started by the same user some weeks.
 
The issue here is that OOF/HT often involve more than 1 post per thread (as opposed to critique). Much of it is debate, whereas if someone is asking what flash to buy it will be tough to string that out over 5 or 6 posts. Million dollar question would be what the % rate is?
 
Just had a quick look and just over 50% of my posts are in "out of focus" does that mean I am not interested in photography? No. Does it mean I should not be on this forum? that's for you to decide.

For me the reason I don't often comment on other peoples photographs is I often don't feel I can add anything. Photography is subjective what some feel is fantastic others may feel is cr@p doesn't make either opinion right or wrong. I certainly haven't got the technical expertise to say this is what you need to achieve this result. I do however look at what others have put up and think yes I could perhaps do that.

Most of the forums I belong to have an off topic section. I personally see nothing wrong with them. But if you lot feel it isn't what your forum should be about, by all means make OOF a "restricted" section, I for one though would not visit as often as I do.
 
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RandomlySet said:
I wouldn't really be able to contribute worthwhile posts elsewhere other than "Nice pic", "love the x,y,z in this shot" etc.....
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cambsno said:
The issue here is that OOF/HT often involve more than 1 post per thread (as opposed to critique). Much of it is debate, whereas if someone is asking what flash to buy it will be tough to string that out over 5 or 6 posts. Million dollar question would be what the % rate is?
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It's not hard to spread some love around the wider forum if you try, posting a few "I love/like the way you did this/that" comments - it sounds like just the sort of thing people should be posting more of, not using as an excuse for lurking ;)

Now it is easier to maintain a ration when you've got 2,500 posts rather than 25 or 250 posts, but we are trying to encourage participation.. aren't we?
 
Alastair said:
It's not hard to spread some love around the wider forum if you try, posting a few "I love/like the way you did this/that" comments - it sounds like just the sort of thing people should be posting more of, not using as an excuse for lurking ;)

Now it is easier to maintain a ration when you've got 2,500 posts rather than 25 or 250 posts, but we are trying to encourage participation.. aren't we?
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Surely you are not suggesting we go down the Facebook see how many "likes" we can get before anybody goes near OOF?
 
munch said:
Surely you are not suggesting we go down the Facebook see how many "likes" we can get before anybody goes near OOF?
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No. I'm pointing out that the apologists for not participating in the main forum areas have a weak and flawed argument.

Nowhere did I suggest counting likes.
 
Alastair said:
No. I'm pointing out that the apologists for not participating in the main forum areas have a weak and flawed argument.

Nowhere did I suggest counting likes.
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How I read it it is exactly what you are saying. You are saying that "apologists" like me should put more comments like "I love/like the way you did this/that" will mean I am contributing more. To me that IS just the same as "lets see how many likes" I can get on Facebook.


Would love you to explain what you mean by apologist.


I will apologise for not being the "pure" photographer you want me to be. Then again we are all different.
 
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Alastair said:
It's not hard to spread some love around the wider forum if you try, posting a few "I love/like the way you did this/that" comments - it sounds like just the sort of thing people should be posting more of, not using as an excuse for lurking ;)
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I agree with you. From what I remember when I last read the rules was that you should post something constructive, rather than just "nice pic". But I'm hardly an expert, hell, never even studied photography, so who am I to give judgement?
 
On another note, every forum I've ever been a member of (usually car based/detailing ones) I have found the Off Topic area always to be the busiest. Generally because the other areas specialise in particular things (ie, Ibiza Owner Club, I'd only be in the Mk3 section, not the other. On SeatCupra.Net that was much bigger covering every model of seat. Again, just teh Mk3 Ibiza area and a couple of others).... Same here. Some people will only ever post in Urban, or Wildlife, or Sport. They may never cross paths with some other members until they venture into Off Topic....

EDIT: Having looked at my profile, only 15% are in OFF (74/473). Over 100 in Video :D, 68 in Talk Equip and 28 in Arch & Urban
 
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RandomlySet said:
I agree with you. From what I remember when I last read the rules was that you should post something constructive, rather than just "nice pic". But I'm hardly an expert, hell, never even studied photography, so who am I to give judgement?
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Pointing out something you like about an image is being constructive. Sometimes it will be something that the poster of the photo either hasn't seen themselves or perhaps dismissed as just something that happens to be in the image rather than one of the things that reaches out and grabs a viewer. I can remember commenting on a photo that the leading lines really made the shot work, "What's a leading line?" was the response :D
 
RandomlySet said:
I agree with you. From what I remember when I last read the rules was that you should post something constructive, rather than just "nice pic". But I'm hardly an expert, hell, never even studied photography, so who am I to give judgement?
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You've got a lot of skill and experience to share when it comes to videography.
 
Phil V said:
Why don't we do the same for Out of focus / hot topics?
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Its been discussed a few times in the past, came close to being implemented once too, but it was decided against in the end, for one reason or another.
And one reason has already been mentioned ..
RandomlySet said:
Some people will only ever post in Urban, or Wildlife, or Sport. They may never cross paths with some other members until they venture into Off Topic....
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Phil V said:
wouldn't it be fair to keep it 'focussed' on its main purpose?
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And that was the thinking behind it, but it was also felt that it would alienate a lot of members, that just dropped by for the banter.
Or in latter years an argument ;)
 
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To 'maintain focus' and if this is really a problem, although I'm not convinced it is, then the simplest solution of course is to just remove the OOF/Hot Topics forums.
 
drounding said:
To 'maintain focus' and if this is really a problem, although I'm not convinced it is, then the simplest solution of course is to just remove the OOF/Hot Topics forums.
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And by doing that, you'd remove a lot of the community spirit too. That, or an "us vs them" situation. (ie, urban togs won't post in wildlife etc)....

I'm trying to think of a real life comparrison........

I know. Imagine going to a football match, but you can ONLY talk about the game - nothing else. How would you get to know more about the fan next to you? What he/she does in their spare time, do they have family, what other sports or hobbies do they like?
 
drounding said:
then the simplest solution of course is to just remove the OOF/Hot Topics forums.
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That has also been discussed at length in the past, ( deleting OoF per se)
It was decided against on the grounds that that everything that is posted in OoF would still get posted, in either the Talk sections or the Photo sharing options,
thus diluting even further the "serious" posts.
Don't you think that its better to keep the arguments and off topic discussions in one place?
 
No one ever heard of self censorship ?
If you don't like OOF or HT don't read it or ask to be excluded.

A few years back a group of like minded people used to have great fun with a "SPAM" thread as it became known, just loads of laughs,
no one got upset, we enjoyed it, but without exception someone would complain and it would be closed, if another started that
would go the same way.

Have people lost their sense of humour, or do they just not like to see others having fun ?

What about those that genuinely come into OOF and ask for help with some aspect of their life, should they be penalised , because
it's not all about photography, there is a wealth of knowledge on here and people prepared to help others out.
 
Cobra said:
....
Don't you think that its better to keep the arguments and off topic discussions in one place?
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Yes, I agree. I personally I don't see the OOF/HT forums are diluting the focus or intent of the community. You can read and join in if you want or ignore them. I actually set my view to see New Posts, so can pick and choose what I read/respond to regardless of where it's posted.
 
I think Phil is just trying to get me banned :p
 
Gremlin said:
No one ever heard of self censorship ?
If you don't like OOF or HT don't read it or ask to be excluded.

A few years back a group of like minded people used to have great fun with a "SPAM" thread as it became known, just loads of laughs,
no one got upset, we enjoyed it, but without exception someone would complain and it would be closed, if another started that
would go the same way.

Have people lost their sense of humour, or do they just not like to see others having fun ?

What about those that genuinely come into OOF and ask for help with some aspect of their life, should they be penalised , because
it's not all about photography, there is a wealth of knowledge on here and people prepared to help others out.
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Wow!

Did you actually read the opening post?

Have a think about other people's 'over reactions' again :p
 
Gremlin said:
A few years back a group of like minded people used to have great fun with a "SPAM" thread as it became known, just loads of laughs,
no one got upset, we enjoyed it, but without exception someone would complain and it would be closed, if another started that
would go the same way.
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;)

Gremlin said:
What about those that genuinely come into OOF and ask for help with some aspect of their life,
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There is that of course.

Llamaman said:
I think Phil is just trying to get me banned :p
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All he has to do is send me one of them thar brown envelopes stuffed with fivers ....
Job done :thumbs:
:D
 
A lot of us loose our 'mojo' at times so tend not to post much that is photography related, but still very much enjoy being a part of this community, and I know it is a part of my everyday life.
I'd hate to find myself excluded for not posting enough in certain areas, and it could add a certain exclusivity that some might find off-putting.
 
Phil V said:
Wow!

Did you actually read the opening post?

Have a think about other people's 'over reactions' again :p
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Yes and gave my reply as I see it so :p to you :).
Let's be honest we all have different interests in our photography and there are areas of the board I never
visit as they hold little or no interest to me personally, I think OOF and HT are probably the only place our paves ever cross,
so as such I ave no idea where your interests lie.
Can I seriously as what you feel might be gained by your suggestions, more people offering critique?
Personally I doubt it. we've had the discussion many times about how to get more people replying to
the critique sections, and a solution has never been forthcoming.
 
nickEnackEnoo said:
I have to admit, I looked at your threads started recently (after you suggesting it to the general audience) and was shocked at how little you post about photography ;)
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H's not alone in that, in fact I can think of at least one person that I have never seen post outside of this forum;)
Should they be excluded, nope, annoying though they can be I do find them a source of amusement
 
Gremlin said:
H's not alone in that
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Indeed, every now and again, we will get an RTM from someone with a "Respectable" post count, been here at least a year, often longer, asking "How do I post pictures" ?
Tis true!
 
Cobra said:
Indeed, every now and again, we will get an RTM from someone with a "Respectable" post count, been here at least a year, often longer, asking "How do I post pictures" ?
Tis true!
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I believe, I think I'd have to ask how to take a decent picture first :D
 
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Gremlin said:
I think I;d have to ask how to take a decent picture first :D
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Sorry can't help with that, save suggest you swap to canon ( OUCH! :D )
 
I agreed with the restrictions on classified access, but I don't want to see OOF/HT closed. They can be funny/interesting/provocative and there's room for that. We're all reasonable people, aren't we...:D
 
nickEnackEnoo said:
I have to admit, I looked at your threads started recently (after you suggesting it to the general audience) and was shocked at how little you post about photography ;)
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I used to post a bit in Talk Beginners and Equipment when I first started, but young children have meant photography has taken a bit of a backseat in recent years (and what I do take, I don't share because I'm crap).

But I quite liked hanging out in OOF so carried on chipping in here. I hadn't realised how much my presence was despised by the old guard [emoji24]
 
Cobra said:
Indeed, every now and again, we will get an RTM from someone with a "Respectable" post count, been here at least a year, often longer, asking "How do I post pictures" ?
Tis true!
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But isn't it "Talk Photography" not "Look Photography"?

/Devil's Advocate (Might as well go out in a blaze of glory... [emoji6])
 
Llamaman said:
I hadn't realised how much my presence was despised by the old guard
emoji24.png
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Awwww lets make today "hug a Llama day" (y)
 
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