Cecil The Lion...killed

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viv1969 said:
JP, are you grooming our snake? ?? :eek:
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You can have one too ;) The house is just too quiet with the family away, too darn quiet. I might get my camera and have a walkabout at the zoo this weekend.
 
dejongj said:
Anyway back on topic...

Walter has apologised and maintained that to him it was a legit hunt. A quick google shows that there are quite a few companies providing these services, I was shocked about that. And where I thought earlier that $50K was too cheap for this and should have been an indication that it was wrong, it is clear and for all to find that it is actually expensive and easily twice as much as the going rate. I'm shocked by that, I'm truly shocked by how little value these endangered animals have to this 'sport'. Whilst he has a bit of a dubious background, I must admit that the 'mystery' shopping puts a little different light on this for me. Sure still an awful act to do and I couldn't possible agree, however if it was made out to him to be legal then it is a little different.
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like most criminals he's bulls***ting - you don't offer a 50k bribe to do anything that you think is legal
 
Now would be a very good time to refer to post 87. Thinly disguised baiting is still baiting.

Llamaman said:
Legend has it he has a framed photograph of Nigel Lawson on the wall of his cave.
They say when Lady Thatcher died he wept for a week, and those tears collected in a bottle give off a strange blue aura and can be used to ward off benefit claimants.
He moves, it is said, in short periods of great speed, followed by long periods of moving very slowly.
Beware the ST4, my son, beware!
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dod said:
Now would be a very good time to refer to post 87. Thinly disguised baiting is still baiting.
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which is ironic in a thread about Cecil being baited out of a national park so he can be shot - at least llamaman didnt try and bribe you 50k to let him do it ;)
 
Louis Theroux did a documentary on this in South Africa where lions were raised and shot for £10k. The hunter gets a nice trophy, the locals get the meat and the breeder uses the money for more animals to breed. Hunting them was actually keeping them going as without the control poachers and the locals just decimated places like Zimbabwe to eat the animals.
 
Laudrup said:
Louis Theroux did a documentary on this in South Africa where lions were raised and shot for £10k. The hunter gets a nice trophy, the locals get the meat and the breeder uses the money for more animals to breed. Hunting them was actually keeping them going as without the control poachers and the locals just decimated places like Zimbabwe to eat the animals.
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except that lion meet isn't that edible - the locals would get vitamin a poisoning

canned hunting like that is one thing - still seems ethically dodgy and pointlessly sad, but its not as bad as what happened here where the animals are deliberately lured out of a protected area so they can be shot
 
big soft moose said:
like most criminals he's bulls***ting - you don't offer a 50k bribe to do anything that you think is legal
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Why do you use language like 'bribe'? Paying money for a wildlife hunt is absolutely normal. There are many companies that provide such services. I'm not sure why you suggest that when money changes hands it is a bribe.

Laudrup said:
Louis Theroux did a documentary on this in South Africa where lions were raised and shot for £10k. The hunter gets a nice trophy, the locals get the meat and the breeder uses the money for more animals to breed. Hunting them was actually keeping them going as without the control poachers and the locals just decimated places like Zimbabwe to eat the animals.
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Exactly, a quick google search will show that that is the going price for a trophy hunt which surprised me that how low it is.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't agree with it but that doesn't necessary make him guilty.
 
big soft moose said:
except that lion meet isn't that edible - the locals would get vitamin a poisoning

canned hunting like that is one thing - still seems ethically dodgy and pointlessly sad, but its not as bad as what happened here where the animals are deliberately lured out of a protected area so they can be shot
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It is quite edible:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010...rant-serving-lion-burgers/UPI-30721277299169/

Mugabe is even at it:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...birthday-party-elephant-meat-lion-zimbabwe-91

I don't think they will be the pickiest eaters in Africa.
 
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dejongj said:
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Now don't get me wrong, I don't agree with it but that doesn't necessary make him guilty.
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Unfortunately it does in most countries. Not knowing that you're breaking the law doesn't mean you're innocent.
 
Phil V said:
Unfortunately it does in most countries. Not knowing that you're breaking the law doesn't mean you're innocent.
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I don't disagree, the onus is on him to clear his name. If he can provide a license and other documentation then perhaps it could be....
 
dod said:
Now would be a very good time to refer to post 87. Thinly disguised baiting is still baiting.
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Who exactly was I supposed to be baiting? The subject of my mockery liked it?
 
Llamaman said:
Who exactly was I supposed to be baiting? The subject of my mockery liked it?
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He can please himself. I didn't, nor the one that was deleted.
 
Phil V said:
Unfortunately it does in most countries. Not knowing that you're breaking the law doesn't mean you're innocent.
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That's very true.
But nor does it mean people should gather at your place of work, or your home, literally beying for your blood.
He did a stupid, cruel, thoughtless thing, and I hope he regrets it for the rest of his natural.

But do I think he should be extradited? No.
Do I think he should serve time? No.

Do I think the outraged bandwagoners should crawl back under their rocks too? Yes.

Killing these magnificent creatures is despicable, but tge systematic killing of other humans, which is happening in several regions, is worse, and I think folk need to get their perspectives in order.

Just. My. Opinion.
 
viv1969 said:
But do I think he should be extradited? No.
Do I think he should serve time? No.
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Why not? There has to be a deterrent and a fine clearly won't work if he can afford $50k a pop for a hunting 'license'.
 
viv1969 said:
Killing these magnificent creatures is despicable, but tge systematic killing of other humans, which is happening in several regions, is worse, and I think folk need to get their perspectives in order.

Just. My. Opinion.
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You're assuming a human life is worth more than the lion's life. I'm not sure that's necessarily the case, why do you think it's 'worse'?
 
I notice zimbabwe authorities say that the hunt was illegal anyway because the landowner didnt have a lion allocated to his hunting licence for 2015 - so luring Cecil out of the park didnt make any difference and the zimbabweans involved are going to get shafted - especially Theor Bronzeberk (or whatever his name really is) who is also guilty of being white. The chances of an amercian being extradited to Zimbabwe are nil, but the americalnFish and Game dept are launching an investigation into whether he broke any US laws
 
big soft moose said:
I notice zimbabwe authorities say that the hunt was illegal anyway because the landowner didnt have a lion allocated to his hunting licence for 2015 - so luring Cecil out of the park didnt make any difference and the zimbabweans involved are going to get shafted - especially Theor Bronzeberk (or whatever his name really is) who is also guilty of being white. The chances of an amercian being extradited to Zimbabwe are nil, but the americalnFish and Game dept are launching an investigation into whether he broke any US laws
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I read there is a pretty good and fairly straight forward extradition treaty between the U.S. And Zimbabwe. With all the attention this incident is attracting anything is possible...
 
TimmyG said:
I read there is a pretty good and fairly straight forward extradition treaty between the U.S. And Zimbabwe. With all the attention this incident is attracting anything is possible...
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there is , but that's extradite american criminals who run away to zimbabwe , not the other way round. Can you honestly see the yanks sending a white proposerous citizen to be tried in Zimbabwe , especially in an election year ?
 
viv1969 said:
Killing these magnificent creatures is despicable, but tge systematic killing of other humans, which is happening in several regions, is worse, and I think folk need to get their perspectives in order.
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I saw a guy stuff a jumper in his jacket from a rack in a shop the other day, so when I walked past him as I exited, I just winked at him and whispered "at least you haven't killed anyone."
He replied "I might have done"
 
Llamaman said:
That certainly wasn't my intention so I've removed the offending post, plus another.
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I didn't take it that you were to be honest. Apologies if you thought I was harsh but there's far too much petty back stabbing and bitching going on here and it pains me to see it. You wouldn't believe how much rubbish we deal with behind the scenes and it really needs to stop.
 
big soft moose said:
there is , but that's extradite american criminals who run away to zimbabwe , not the other way round. Can you honestly see the yanks sending a white proposerous citizen to be tried in Zimbabwe , especially in an election year ?
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No the treaty works both ways if the offender carries an imprisonment of more than one year, and the offense is also punishable in the U.S. If so suspected to be guilty with sufficient evidence than I do think he should face the music.

@viv1969 why wouldn't you want him to face up to a potential crime if there is sufficient evidence for an extradition procedure? I agree with everything else you said but don't understand the reasoning for those comments.
 
new2me said:
I saw a guy stuff a jumper in his jacket from a rack in a shop the other day, so when I walked past him as I exited, I just winked at him and whispered "at least you haven't killed anyone."
He replied "I might have done"
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Lol

I'm just off to shop lift a load of new camera gear - clearly the police won't care because its not like I've killed anyone
 
dejongj said:
No the treaty works both ways if the offender carries an imprisonment of more than one year, and the offense is also punishable in the U.S. If so suspected to be guilty with sufficient evidence than I do think he should face the music.
.
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I know it does in theory - but in practice , in an american election year ... i'd rate the chances of it happening between f*** all and not very much

I know they have extradited citizens before - but when you look at those cases the majority were poor, lower class citizens, and the cases were nearly all murder or rape , and most of the extraditions were to first world countries.

IMO The chances of an upper middle class dentist being extradited to a third world s*** hole for killing a lion are the square root of f*** all
 
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new2me said:
I saw a guy stuff a jumper in his jacket from a rack in a shop the other day, so when I walked past him as I exited, I just winked at him and whispered "at least you haven't killed anyone."
He replied "I might have done"
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Out of interest, did you report the incident to the shop or security guard?
 
dejongj said:
Out of interest, did you report the incident to the shop or security guard?
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No. I simply accepted it might not be illegal for the guy to take stuff that wasn't his.
 
big soft moose said:
I know it does in theory - but in practice , in an american election year ... i'd rate the chances of it happening between f*** all and not very much
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Obama won't be in office. And oddly I do think people care more about this abroad than say if he shot one at home and endangered the gun lobby. Just a wild guess.

I would also like to see the U.S. under political pressure if there is the evidence. It is not right if an person is not held to account just because they are American. But yes, I did watch that pig fly past, I'm not that naive ;)
 
big soft moose said:
I know it does in theory - but in practice , in an american election year ... i'd rate the chances of it happening between f*** all and not very much
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Just do it after the election. Blame the paperwork for any delays. Sorted ;)
 
dejongj said:
Unfortunately there are a few here that just want to make things personal rather than discuss the topic. It is absolutely pathetic.
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Dod's already pointed this out and and so have I, far too many times for my liking TBH.
:(
 
Cobra said:
Dod's already pointed this out and and so have I, far too many times for my liking TBH.
:(
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There really was only one way this thread was going to go, which is why I didn't start one the previous day when I first read about it. Been done to death, whether it's Lions, Bears, Foxes .......
 
Cobra said:
Dod's already pointed this out and and so have I, far too many times for my liking TBH.
:(
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Not being funny dude, but don't you guys have the power to do something about it ?
 
big soft moose said:
Not being funny dude, but don't you guys have the power to do something about it ?
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Indeed we do, but we try and play nice and keep things on an even keel.
Rock and a hard place, some say we are to soft others say we are too hard ;)

BTW some posts have been edited some have been deleted.
any more and yes, some members may find the same happening to them ;)
 
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Posting just to complain about other threads tends to hamper the flow of the discussion too. Just use the flag functionality if there is something you object to and reply to any posts where you would like to encourage further discussion.
 
For some reason, the address bar isn't showing so I can't C&P the link to the Telegraph story that suggests that the MAXIMUM penalty for the crime is $400. A Google for telegraph cecil $400 will find it though. I suppose a significant drop in earnings until people forget all about this might be a minor itch to the c*** but not enough IMO.
 
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