Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

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Mr Bump said:
View attachment 137613


Diesel cars are one of the key reasons behind the UK's air pollution problems
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Not strictly true, in the case of particulate matter. Other sources also include primary particles from tyre and brake wear and other nonexhaust emissions.
Other primary sources include quarrying, construction and nonroad mobile sources.

Road transport is the main source of NOx, followed by the electricity supply industry and other industrial and commercial sectors.
Supher Dioxide emissions are dominated by combustion of fuels containing sulphur, such as coal and heavy oils by power stations and refineries. In some parts of the UK, notably Northern Ireland, coal for domestic use is a
significant source.

but then thats only defra - they haven't as much knowledge as Mr Bump
 
Byker28i said:
Not strictly true, in the case of particulate matter. Other sources also include primary particles from tyre and brake wear and other nonexhaust emissions.
Other primary sources include quarrying, construction and nonroad mobile sources.

Road transport is the main source of NOx, followed by the electricity supply industry and other industrial and commercial sectors.
Supher Dioxide emissions are dominated by combustion of fuels containing sulphur, such as coal and heavy oils by power stations and refineries. In some parts of the UK, notably Northern Ireland, coal for domestic use is a
significant source.

but then thats only defra - they haven't as much knowledge as Mr Bump
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I take your Defra and raise you to European Environment Agency as that is who has produced the report.
Diesel is death, buy one and you are just a contributor, nowt else.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46017339
 
Buy any fuel and you're a contributor - that fuel will have been delivered by a Diesel rig.
Buy any food, ditto.
Travel by public transport, ditto.
No way to avoid being a contributor in some respects.
 
Mr Bump said:
Diesel is death, buy one and blah, blah, blah
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But as always you ignore the full picture just to suit your personal crusade. It's not a simple black and white as you like to think. There's many, many causes of which transport is just one.
 
Mr Bump said:
Despite progress, air pollution causes more than 500,000 premature deaths in Europe every year, the European Environment Agency (EEA) has warned.

Its report said pollution levels were slowly improving in EU countries but remained far higher than EU and World Health Organization (WHO) standards.

Air pollution is the main cause of premature death in 41 European nations and remains "too high", the EEA said.

The findings are based on 2015 data from more than 2,500 sites.

"Air pollution is an invisible killer and we need to step up our efforts to address the causes," said the head of the agency, Hans Bruyninckx.

The air quality report commissioned by the European Commission comes weeks after an EU watchdog said most of the 28 EU states failed to meet the bloc's air quality targets.

It had warned the toll on health was worse in eastern European countries than China and India.

How bad is it?
This year's estimated number of premature deaths is an increase on earlier data, which said air pollution caused around 476,000 premature deaths in Europe in 2013.

About 422,000 people died prematurely in European countries in 2015 due to exposure to harmful levels of fine particle matter (PM2.5).

These particles are too small to see or smell but have a devastating effect - causing or aggravating heart disease, asthma and lung cancer.
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As I pointed out in an earlier post the current diesel particulate emission regulation limit is very close to that of petrol and CO2 levels from a diesel are far less than from an equivalent petrol.
It is older pre 2015 diesels that are causing the high emissions, but from 2007 they still aren't that bad, it is the pre 2007 diesel vehicles which don't have Dpf's which are the worst offenders as well as all the diesel generators etc which are unregulated.

Are you going to answer my question now?
nilagin said:
What is a digger engine?
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And what have they got to do with Ford laying off a few workers for a week?
 
Mr Bump said:
It had warned the toll on health was worse in eastern European countries than China and India.
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I find this very hard to believe considering China is the world leading polluter at 30% followed by USA at 15% then India at 7%.

Do they state where they get their China and India facts from and how they are authenticated?
 
nilagin said:
And what have they got to do with Ford laying off a few workers for a week?
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Staff at Ford's plant in Bridgend working on the new Jaguar engine have been told not to come into work for five days.

The AJ production line at the plant will shutdown from 29 October to 2 November, the GMB union confirmed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46002556
 
Mr Bump said:
Staff at Ford's plant in Bridgend working on the new Jaguar engine have been told not to come into work for five days.

The AJ production line at the plant will shutdown from 29 October to 2 November, the GMB union confirmed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46002556
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That doesn't answer my question, what has that got to do with diggers?
 
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Mr Bump said:
Staff at Ford's plant in Bridgend working on the new Jaguar engine have been told not to come into work for five days.

The AJ production line at the plant will shutdown from 29 October to 2 November, the GMB union confirmed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46002556
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Honda in Swindon shut down for 6 months, it hasn't done their long term sales any problems. I'm not sure the point you are trying to make?
 
Tbh I think the planet could do with a few less humans, so if diesel is the cause I am doing my bit.
 
Nod said:
Buy any fuel and you're a contributor - that fuel will have been delivered by a Diesel rig.
Buy any food, ditto.
Travel by public transport, ditto.
No way to avoid being a contributor in some respects.
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There are many ways to drastically reduce contribution:

Switch to renewable home suppliers. Live closer to work. Buy local produce. Eat less meat?
(I know the last one is unrealistic, at least for me ;) )

Everything adds up, including reusable plastic bags, reusable cups. As the advert says, every little helps.
 
wuyanxu said:
There are many ways to drastically reduce contribution:

Switch to renewable home suppliers. Live closer to work. Buy local produce. Eat less meat?
(I know the last one is unrealistic, at least for me ;) )

Everything adds up, including reusable plastic bags, reusable cups. As the advert says, every little helps.
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Eating less meat would be plausible if the range of tasty, reduced meat recipes were to be promoted. There are some lovely grilled vegetables, and curries that I could eat more often. Meat makes up only 15% of my Christmas dinner.
But as the change to electric transport is picking up a surprising amount of speed, I don't think the meat issue is so pressing currently.
 
It just another example of the green brigades complete disassociation from the real world. They come up with the simplest solutions to the most complex issues, most of which are not remotely viable.

Most people try and do their bit for the environment but most are realistic about just how much change they can make as an individual.

Drive what suits you, eat what suits you, do your bit when you can and try and enjoy life.
 
wuyanxu

Switch to renewable home suppliers - there isn't the capacity to supply everyone, nor can renewable cope with surges in demand. They're also at the mercy of the weather, the seasons etc. Nuclear?
If we switch to gas, then a lot of that is brought in by tankers via Milford Haven...

Live closer to work. - affordable housing? The obvious example here is the seven bridge, one side Bristol is very expensive, the other side is half price, for a 20-30 min commute. People just can't afford the houses.
We're also at the point where work is very distributed now, mainly because we have little manufacturing, being a huge service industry.

Buy local produce. Eat less meat? - buy local meat? Is it just beef thats the issue, so pork, chickens, lamb?

Then what do we do about the construction trades. Everyone wants housing, better roads etc, yet quarrying etc is another source of particulates.

Then what about other countries. The US are relaxing many environmental laws, China exploit them to fuel their manufacturing rise etc

It's not just diesel cars, there's so many, many causes.
https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/library/annualreport/viewonline?year=2017_issue_1#report_pdf
 
wuyanxu said:
There are many ways to drastically reduce contribution:

Switch to renewable home suppliers. Live closer to work. Buy local produce. Eat less meat?
(I know the last one is unrealistic, at least for me ;) )

Everything adds up, including reusable plastic bags, reusable cups. As the advert says, every little helps.
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Having fewer children + a diet free of animal products are the biggest changes most people can make to reduce their environmental impact. Globally, most people won't do either by choice.

In the UK, as a general rule, people seem to have a similar attitude to @Gaz J above, who advocates driving and eating whatever you want, and 'doing a bit for the environment' when it suits. They think they're living a green lifestyle because they recycle their glass bottles, have a few 'bags for life' and don't drive a five litre gas-guzzler. Unfortunately the changes that are going to be required to reverse the environmental damage already done are now so massive that tinkering around the edges will have little to no effect. I think humans are at the stage where we either bite the bullet and change drastically, or nature will do it for us (famine & disease). And as always, the poorest will bear the brunt of it.
 
Less humans is indeed the answer, and I believe eventually that will be taken care of by means beyond our control.
C'est la vie.
 
FujiLove said:
In the UK, as a general rule, people seem to have a similar attitude to @Gaz J
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I'd love to see the source of this fact?


FujiLove said:
Having fewer children + a diet free of animal products are the biggest changes most people can make to reduce their environmental impact. Globally, most people won't do either by choice.
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Globally? Looking at this list the UK, Europe, America, Canada etc aren't the problem and furthermore it is probably safe to assume that many of the statistics from the top ranking countries are understated. https://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?t=0&v=25&l=en
 
gman said:
I'd love to see the source of this fact?
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There's no need to look for studies to confirm this fact. Just look around you: do you see tens of millions of people in the UK ditching their cars and converting to public transport, bicycles and electric vehicles en mass? Do you see tens of millions of vegans? Do you see tens of millions of people voting Green? Or do you see people carrying on driving, eating, consuming, voting, breeding and living as they always have...as if there's no problem with the environment?

...and BTW, I'm not trying to be holier than thou here. I do nowhere near the amount that's going to be required by everyone to solve this mess.
 
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World population - 7 billion.
Combined population of China and India - nearly 3 billion.
14 out of the 20 most polluted cities in the World are in India.
Here is a list of the most polluted cities in the World by particulate matter concentration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-polluted_cities_by_particulate_matter_concentration

The simple truth of the matter is, that if we in the UK all moved over to EV's and ditched diesel altogether, it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
 
FujiLove said:
Where does it say that in the articles Paul posted?
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It doesn't, but it would be hypocritical to post that and not to agree that battery production is bad for the planet.

Some in this thread have taken the stance that air quality in UK is more important than parts of the world where materials are mined (involving many practices that are bad for the environment).
 
viv1969 said:
Less humans is indeed the answer, and I believe eventually that will be taken care of by means beyond our control.
C'est la vie.
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C'est la mort. :p

Perhaps we'll just have another war & halve the population. :(
 
neil_g said:
It doesn't, but it would be hypocritical to post that and not to agree that battery production is bad for the planet.

Some in this thread have taken the stance that air quality in UK is more important than parts of the world where materials are mined (involving many practices that are bad for the environment).
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There was a story some years ago about a ship that needed to be dismantled. It was due to be done in the UK but there were environmental objections so it was towed to India where it was beached and mostly hacked to pieces by the locals with axes with any and all noxious substances contaminating the sea, the environment and people. The photographs of it happening were appalling. We had similar objections in the Middlesbrough area to the "ghost ships" some time ago but a part of that seemed also to be anti American sentiment.

It does seem to me that many in the UK would rather an out of sight environmental disaster in the far east to a bit of extra traffic in the UK as workers drive to the port to dismantle shipping in a much more environmental fashion.
 
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