Canon announces EOS 7D ***Official Discussion thread***

HoppyUK said:
Oh blimey! Do you know what time it is? LOL

It's not such a hypothetical question, extremely close to my actual example above, which I've already answered, but I see why you've changed it.

And the answer is still NO. It will NOT autofocus at all focal lengths. It will not AF at 400mm with a 1.4x TC, no matter what. And that is because it has become 560mm f/8.
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We'll need to agree to disagree and call it a night.

But how can any camera then possibly AF at anything smaller than f8?

Also it has not become a 560/f8.

It has become a 140-560mm f5.6-f8 The max aperture is still f5.6
 
EOS_JD said:
We'll need to agree to disagree and call it a night.
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Thank God for that! :)

But how can any camera then possibly AF at anything smaller than f8?
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If we're still talking Canon 40D, it cannot. Only Canon 1-Series will AF at f/8 (and only on the centre point).

Also it has not become a 560/f8.
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At 400mm with a 1.4x extender it has.

It has become a 140-560mm f5.6-f8
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Yes.

The max aperture is still f5.6
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Not at the long end it isn't!

Good night fella :)
 
EOS_JD said:
We'll need to agree to disagree and call it a night.

But how can any camera then possibly AF at anything smaller than f8?
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Because all cameras do their focusing with the lens wide open and only stop down to the aperture selected to properly expose the shot when you press the shutter.

Wide open on a 100-400 with a 1.4XTC attached at the long end is f8, so it won't AF.

For what it's worth a good friend of mine has a 100-400 and the canon 1.4XTC that he uses on a 50D. It won't AF at the long end with the TC in place.

Simon.
 
EOS_JD said:
I'm not yet convinced but I am rethinking :) When I bought my 1.4x I researched this - Sad thing is I don't have any slow lenses to try it out! In fact the Canon one doesn't fit any slow lenses I don't think! My old Kenko 1.4x one got used on a Sigma 18-135 f3.5 - 5.6 and worked (albeit slowly
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Your Kenko one worked because it doesn't report the aperature back to the camera.
 
EOS_JD said:
What this means in practise, with my 40D, 100-400L 4.5-5.6 lens and 1.4x extender (with taped pins so the Canon AF doesn't just switch off past f/5.6) is that it will AF okay at the short end where it is effectively f/6.3. This amount of AF headroom appears normal, and that is what Sigma/Tamron are exploiting with some of their lenses which are f/6.3 at the long end.

But as you zoom out past f/6.3, it faulters and becomes erratic, then hunts madly and is completely useless past 200mm.
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I'm still not sure that is right. The reason Sigma f4.5-6.3 lenses Autofocus at f6.3 is becaue the maximum aperture of the lens is f4.5. The actual aperture value when using AF is the max aperture of the lens (as noted above).

The reason the AF falters is because the camera is not letting much light in so AFsystem is poorer in lower light (restricting the light with a TC will have a big impact on most lenses (more so slower ones)
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The Sigma lenses autofocus at f6.3 because they effectively lie to the camera about what aperture they are at at the long end.

Simon.
 
srhmoto said:
The Sigma lenses autofocus at f6.3 because they effectively lie to the camera about what aperture they are at at the long end.

Simon.
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NDepends what you mean by "lies". It can AF because the camera Autofocuses with the lens WIDE OPEN. press your shutter half way - the camera will focus. The viewfinder will be nice and clear because the lens is still wide open.
 
EOS_JD said:
NDepends what you mean by "lies". It can AF because the camera Autofocuses with the lens WIDE OPEN. press your shutter half way - the camera will focus. The viewfinder will be nice and clear because the lens is still wide open.
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Lies means lies - the lens reports an aperature of f5.6 to the camera at the long end, not the true aperature of f6.3 and hence tricks the camera into allowing AF.
 
srhmoto said:
Lies means lies - the lens reports an aperature of f5.6 to the camera at the long end, not the true aperature of f6.3 and hence tricks the camera into allowing AF.
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I see what you mean but it's not a lie as the camera hasn't actually stopped down to f6.3 at that point - until you take the image or press the dof preview
 
EOS_JD said:
NDepends what you mean by "lies". It can AF because the camera Autofocuses with the lens WIDE OPEN. press your shutter half way - the camera will focus. The viewfinder will be nice and clear because the lens is still wide open.
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I'm sorry but you've still got it wrong, when you see a range of say F/4 to F/5.6 on a lens - it is telling you what the max aperture it is capable of at each focal length. F/4 at the minimum zoon and F/5.6 at maximum zoom. This is due to light fall off by the time it reaches the sensor either to asorption of light by the inner lens wall or miniscule reflections sending light back out of the lens.

Think of it this way - you have a cardboard tube one metre in length and then shine a torch down it; the light is pretty bright yes? Now you make that cardboard tube 2 miles long and you will be pretty lucky to see any light on the other end at all.

This is why a lens states the maximum aperture at one focal length and a different aperture at another focal length with the diaphragm absolutely wide open. This is also why you pay extra for lenses that are capable of maintaining the same aperture throughout the focal length due to techniques to ensure the light path does not deviate and 'reflections' are kept at an absolute minimum in order to maintain constant aperture.

If a F4 to F5.6 aperture lens is reporting F4 back to the camera at the maximum zoom setting then it is either faulty or the manufacturer need their backside kicking especially if you are trying to work out shutter speeds etc on an aperture being incorrectly reported. If you notice when in aperture mode and you change the focal length that has a variable aperture - the number reported to the camera fluctuates. This being the effective aperture that the AF can work with. Also any decent teleconverter will read this incoming signal and then modify it to take into account the loss of light being received by the inclusion of the teleconverter. End result being the aperture that the camera (AF) can work with.

Hope the above makes sense,

Mark
 
It seems MPB Photographic now have the 7D in stock!

They're offering part ex on your 5D and £799, or your 50D and £949
 
I have to admit I'm pretty impressed by the specs of the 7D - I will pick up one of these by christmas pending real usage reviews and posts within TP. I guess if any announcement is made for the 1D IV it will be around Jan/Feb with probably another 1-2 months to release and then a period of review to ensure that its the model the 1D should be. Chop in the 7D and go for the 1D IV around summer unless I'm blown away by the 7D and I want to keep. ;)
 
CT said:
It seems MPB Photographic now have the 7D in stock!

They're offering part ex on your 5D and £799, or your 50D and £949
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Do you have a link please CT?

EDIT: I've found it, clicky HERE

This is very tempting for me but it also makes me wonder if the 7D will drop quite a bit in price once its readily available. Effectively they would be buying my 50D for £750!
 
CSB said:
This is very tempting for me but it also makes me wonder if the 7D will drop quite a bit in price once its readily available. Effectively they would be buying my 50D for £750!
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Well that effective £750 is no doubt based on the RRP of £1699.00?

I pre-ordered early for £300 less than the RRP, so ineviiably prices will drop, but so will the offer on your 50D. Prices drop on any camera after the first rush of orders have eased off, so I'd eventually expect the 7D to reach about £1200 and probably bottom out at around that price.
 
May I ask where you pre ordered from CT and was the £300 below RRP a special offer or does it still stand?
 
No probs - I pre-ordered with Stuart from Digital Depot. It's a special offer to TP members which still stands AFAIAA.

In fact Stuart made his offer early on in this thread. Last post but one on Page 4.
 
CT said:
It seems MPB Photographic now have the 7D in stock!

They're offering part ex on your 5D and £799, or your 50D and £949
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Matt has had that up on his website for about a week now. I doubt that he has them in stock right now, particularly as none of the really big UK dealers have them yet.

Not a bad part exchange deal though.

Simon.
 
I don't see how he can really put that up. If the release date is the 28th, then he cannot sell them before then.
Unless stock has been sent to all of the resellers, and they are not allowed to release them from their warehouse until that date. But it is still 2 weeks to go, that could amount to a lot of warehouse space. And as we know Digital Depot already has at least 4 on pre-order, I suspect that other (and I don't mean this in a rude way, but if it weren't for TP I wouldn't know about DD) well known retailers have more already on order.
(that said, if DD said they were in stock, I would more likely believe it over those at WHEX [filter I tried to buy was listed as in stock for 3 months, whilst they didn't have enough to send me 1] )
 
Ref price look at my post nos 202 on page 7 of this thread-it gives a good idea of what sort of price the 7D will get to in a few months-probable January after the "Chrissy Rush"!!!
 
I always find it helpful to have a few browser favorites set up with pricing search sites, so that I can monitor the change in "real" prices on a regular basis, rather than those silly SRPs that some retailers think actually mean something. Here are a few example searches....

http://www.google.co.uk/products?as...cct=title&price1=900&price2=&show=dd&safe=off
http://www.idealo.co.uk/compare/1864119/canon-eos-7d.html
http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/cl/29/Digital-Cameras?search=canon+7d&q=canon+7d&sort=3

Let's not forget Kerso, Digital Depot and some of the Hong Kong suppliers as well, such as Digital Rev and Onestop Digital.

It seems to me that around £1400 is a fair target price to be aiming for, at launch. Anything over £1450 just appears to be taking the pi55. I certainly would not be happy to accept £450 for my pristine 50D in p/ex against a 7D.
 
tdodd said:
I always find it helpful to have a few browser favorites set up with pricing search sites, so that I can monitor the change in "real" prices on a regular basis, rather than those silly SRPs that some retailers think actually mean something. Here's an example search....

http://www.google.co.uk/products?as...cct=title&price1=900&price2=&show=dd&safe=off

It seems to me that around £1400 is a fair target price to be aiming for, at launch. Anything over £1450 just appears to be taking the pi55. I certainly would not be happy to accept £450 for my pristine 50D in p/ex against a 7D.
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As usual you speak sense. I'd love a 7D but I think I'll wait till next year and get some more use from my 50D while I save my pennies.
 
tdodd said:
I always find it helpful to have a few browser favorites set up with pricing search sites, so that I can monitor the change in "real" prices on a regular basis, rather than those silly SRPs that some retailers think actually mean something. Here are a few example searches....

http://www.google.co.uk/products?as...cct=title&price1=900&price2=&show=dd&safe=off
http://www.idealo.co.uk/compare/1864119/canon-eos-7d.html
http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/cl/29/Digital-Cameras?search=canon+7d&q=canon+7d&sort=3

Let's not forget Kerso and some of the Hong Kong suppliers as well, such as Digital Rev and Onestop Digital.

It seems to me that around £1400 is a fair target price to be aiming for, at launch. Anything over £1450 just appears to be taking the pi55. I certainly would not be happy to accept £450 for my pristine 50D in p/ex against a 7D.
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Kerso is a fair bit less than £1400! I'll still wait till the new year and once I've seen a fewrreviews. This looks like the camera I've been waiting for since I bought the 20D. 40D is great but the AF is where the cameras lack the speed I'd like (hopefully it will be a step up)
 
EOS_JD said:
Kerso is a fair bit less than £1400! I'll still wait till the new year and once I've seen a fewrreviews. This looks like the camera I've been waiting for since I bought the 20D. 40D is great but the AF is where the cameras lack the speed I'd like (hopefully it will be a step up)
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Have you got a firm price from Kerso? And a delivery estimate?

Purely for academic interest of course ;) :D
 
CT said:
No probs - I pre-ordered with Stuart from Digital Revs. It's a special offer to TP members which still stands AFAIAA.

In fact Stuart made his offer early on in this thread. Last post but one on Page 4.
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Do you mean Stuart at DigitalDepot ?..........




:)
 
EOS_JD said:
Kerso is a fair bit less than £1400! I'll still wait till the new year and once I've seen a fewrreviews. This looks like the camera I've been waiting for since I bought the 20D. 40D is great but the AF is where the cameras lack the speed I'd like (hopefully it will be a step up)
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I'd rather buy a new camera body with a Canon UK warranty I have to say and £1400 is the best price I've seen.
 
Only under sale of goods act I believe. Which is why most retailers make you return to Canon after a couple of months if there is a problem. There has been evidence before on this forum of people struggling to get an appropriate, timely response from Kerso to a camera body warranty issue and if he ceases trading, you're on your own.

As I say, each to their own but I'd rather bank on Canon UK and CPS thanks
 
grumpybadger said:
Only under sale of goods act I believe. Which is why most retailers make you return to Canon after a couple of months if there is a problem. There has been evidence before on this forum of people struggling to get an appropriate, timely response from Kerso to a camera body warranty issue and if he ceases trading, you're on your own.

As I say, each to their own but I'd rather bank on Canon UK and CPS thanks
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I am sorry but your contract is with the seller ONLY ths is who you go to if you have a fault.
Many sellers will try it on and as most folk do not know the law will do so
 
And if the seller ceases to trade? It will be backed for 12 months by Canon UK. What if the seller is based overseas and chooses not to help or is no longer in a position to help?

If it doesn't bother you then fine. I'd rather not run the risk.
 
grumpybadger said:
And if the seller ceases to trade? It will be backed for 12 months by Canon UK. What if the seller is based overseas and chooses not to help or is no longer in a position to help?

If it doesn't bother you then fine. I'd rather not run the risk.
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If youhave a UK recipet and its bought in good faith I think you be OK Canon have a name to up hold
 
They don't tend to always see it that way for grey imports, which is why I checked with Stuart that he was selling UK stock before placing an order.

As I say, if you're not concerned fine.
 
For the first year, you can choose between the manufacturer and seller dependant on what you think would be best. Canon provide the means for this via their warranty scheme. After that time, the manufacturers provided warranty, then your only recourse is to the seller under the sale of goods act. Canon do not have to provide a warranty, but chose to. If the camera is an import, OR has not had VAT paid, they are well within their rights to refuse to do the work.

If the item is returned to the seller, then it needs to be fed back through distribution. If it is warranted by the manufacturer, and is made good via certified repair shops (for free as under warranty), then this would be quicker than going back through distribution. When we have to send some items back through distribution to manufacturers, sometimes the customer can be left for months without the item to use.

That said, I was considering getting the camera from Kerso, but decided not to due to other reasons (not anything to do with Kerso I would add)
 
HoppyUK said:
Have you got a firm price from Kerso? And a delivery estimate?

Purely for academic interest of course ;) :D
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Firm price but I didn't ask for a delivery estimate as I'll be waiting until the review are out and the performance confirmed.

Ask and you'll get excellent service from him.
 
grumpybadger said:
I'd rather buy a new camera body with a Canon UK warranty I have to say and £1400 is the best price I've seen.
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Kerso will provide you with a UK receipt and the camera is covered by warranty here.
 
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