Can a Chef really know? ...

jonbeeza

jonbeeza

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Been watching the news, and health watchdogs want to bring in legislation, that would force restaurants to disclose / display the calorie count in all their meals.
I have been involved in catering for many years, and I know what food is high in calories, and what should have a much lower count. But there is no way I would be able to say how many calories are in any given meal.

I could have a wild guess and say I know Sugar and butter have X amount of calories per 100gram. Likewise fatty meat has a high calorie count at X amount
Tot everything up, and I would get to an estimated calorie count, and I am sure it would be massively way out, and not helpful to the customer at all.

The only way to have a proper calorie count per meal, is too cook it up and give it to a Scientific Lab, and let them analyse the food.
Cooking food from scratch will always give a different calorie count, no way it would ever be the same. :thinking:
 
I suppose that if a restaurant/cafe has a fixed menu then they would just need to prepare 1 of each dish and have it sent for analysis, then display that calorie count as an 'indicative'. There's no way they could give a 100% accurate measure for each dish and i'm sure any such legislation would allow for this. As someone who produces foodstuffs and has to have tests done I know that this isn't a cheap process, but it all goes against business expenses.

I have to send samples for microbiological testing (for pathogens etc) and for me, as long as my process stays the same then an annual test and report is within legislation, so i'm sure this would be the same for calorie count (i.e. the ingredients ratio and method remains largely the same). Actually, this could prove more beneficial to a restaurant as they would probably use less ingredients by being more stringent on measurements and ratios, possibly.
 
Not a big fan of James Martin, just imagine if he had to give a calorie count to his food, or have it sent for calorie testing.
He would use nearly half a pound of butter per meal, then pour double cream in the mixture.
I am sure the reading would be massively high.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
If I am going to eat out in a restaurant I don't give a damn about the calories!
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Apparently some are annoyed that restaurants don't display the count, heath watchdogs said they have had complaints from people with eating disorders, and others that are trying to maintain a healthy weight.
 
jonbeeza said:
Apparently some are annoyed that restaurants don't display the count, heath watchdogs said they have had complaints from people with eating disorders, and others that are trying to maintain a healthy weight.
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Just assume everything has 5,000 calories then you can maintain a healthy weight.
 
I can honestly say that I wouldn't know how many calories were in anything I have eaten or drunk ever.

Only thing I check food for is Garlic or Onion, not good with anything from the Allium family, in fact makes me rather poorly very quickly.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Just assume everything has 5,000 calories then you can maintain a healthy weight.
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Some website say an average fry up is about 1500 calories, while the average recommended daily calorie intake is 2,000 calories a day for women and 2,500 for men.
Pretty easy to see, how easy it is to go over. I know most won't have a daily fry up, but it's all the junk we eat between meals.
 
tijuana taxi said:
I can honestly say that I wouldn't know how many calories were in anything I have eaten or drunk ever.

Only thing I check food for is Garlic or Onion, not good with anything from the Allium family, in fact makes me rather poorly very quickly.
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It's strange to ask that kind of question in a way. Because I used to calorie count and when you do it regularly, you get really good at guessing the calorie from just looking at it and knowing what it is, experience will tell you an average Big Mac is just under 600 calories, a Digestive Biscuit is about 80 calories, a banana is about 100, any packet sauce in a salad can be like 200 for a tiny packet, and a fry up is anything from 800 to 1200 or even 2000 depending on the size (you will see i always lean on the higher side...Big Mac figure is 508 in the UK). You just get good at the ballpark the figure. If you want down to exact single digit, then you ought to send it to a lab because even if they put it on the menu, it's never going to be exact.

So the people asking for these kind of information, they are experience in calorie counting, they should know. Unless they can't count.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
It's strange to ask that kind of question in a way. Because I used to calorie count and when you do it regularly, you get really good at guessing the calorie from just looking at it and knowing what it is, experience will tell you an average Big Mac is just under 600 calories, a Digestive Biscuit is about 80 calories, a banana is about 100, any packet sauce in a salad can be like 200 for a tiny packet, and a fry up is anything from 800 to 1200 or even 2000 depending on the size (you will see i always lean on the higher side...Big Mac figure is 508 in the UK). You just get good at the ballpark the figure. If you want down to exact single digit, then you ought to send it to a lab because even if they put it on the menu, it's never going to be exact.

So the people asking for these kind of information, they are experience in calorie counting, they should know. Unless they can't count.
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I do know some that will go to such places and have something, not in place of a main meal but as an addition. Some people I do know will go to such places after they have done their shopping, this is after their breakfast, and they will still have a main meal in the evening.

If I have such an indulgence, I will make sure I count it as one of my daily meals, and usually as the main one, and have something small and light, just to counter balance things.
 
Personally, I don't think it's beyond the wit of most adults (and a fair amount of children to be honest) to know what constitutes a healthy meal, but it seems that 'we' are turning into a society that requires spoon feeding each and every ounce of information about absolutely everything, without using common sense. Most menus will have a slight description of how the dish is prepared (i.e. 'pan fried in garlic butter', braised, oven baked, etc etc).
 
jonbeeza said:
Trouble is, Chefs are too heavy handed. They put far too much salt oil butter and sugar in meals. This is in the hopes of creating a delicious tasty meal. Yes the meal may be delicious, but far too many calories for just one meal. Plus the portions sizes are far too large.
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i think that's the main problem, portion sizes seem to have crept up in size massively in the past few years.
 
FlyPhot said:
Personally, I don't think it's beyond the wit of most adults (and a fair amount of children to be honest) to know what constitutes a healthy meal, but it seems that 'we' are turning into a society that requires spoon feeding each and every ounce of information about absolutely everything, without using common sense. Most menus will have a slight description of how the dish is prepared (i.e. 'pan fried in garlic butter', braised, oven baked, etc etc).
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A person we know, often says " I really just can't get rid of all this weight". They go for power walks with an energy drink in hand, and gets through a good few a day. We have suggested try drinking water, but they just say they can't.
 
jonbeeza said:
A person we know, often says " I really just can't get rid of all this weight". They go for power walks with an energy drink in hand, and gets through a good few a day. We have suggested try drinking water, but they just say they can't.
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This is a very extreme mindset but a few years ago I lost 3 stone in a few months by just dieting, i calorie counted religiously. When i am hungry, to stop myself from eating i think to myself "The people in the wars lived on much less food and they survived! Just eat that carrot and suck it up."

It works, it's all about will power, you got to WANT to do it.
 
FlyPhot said:
i think that's the main problem, portion sizes seem to have crept up in size massively in the past few years.
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I blame the all you can eat buffet, a family member got us to go with them once, and never again. The pure greed, everyone piling the plates high, and gorging themselves.

I have bought a selection of small plates, this helps with portion control, and tricks the mind into thinking you have a generous helping, while in reality it is only about half the size we used to have. It has done the trick, as me and the missus have lost loads of weight.
 
jonbeeza said:
A person we know, often says " I really just can't get rid of all this weight". They go for power walks with an energy drink in hand, and gets through a good few a day. We have suggested try drinking water, but they just say they can't.
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They'll also probably lose a lot of teeth as well as developing diabetes with all the massive sugar intake!!
 
Raymond Lin said:
This is a very extreme mindset but a few years ago I lost 3 stone in a few months by just dieting, i calorie counted religiously. When i am hungry, to stop myself from eating i think to myself "The people in the wars lived on much less food and they survived! Just eat that carrot and suck it up."

It works, it's all about will power, you got to WANT to do it.
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Ditto

I tend to think of the starving in the poor countries, and it shames me into eating less. ;)
 
I would be more interested in restaurants being forced to display their hygiene rating. All of the pubs and restaurants I visit locally have ratings of 5* and not surprisingly display this. Just checked and 11 have a value of 1* and one has 0* in my town. You never see a premises advertise less than 4* as they know it would drive customers away but we should be able to readily see the rating.

Dave
 
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Dave Canon said:
I would be more interested in restaurants being forced to display their hygiene rating. All of the pubs and restaurants I visit locally have ratings of 5* and not surprisingly display this. Just checked and 11 have a value of 1* and one has 0* in my town. You never see a premises advertise less than 4* as they know it would drive customers away but we should be able to readily see the rating.

Dave
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I have never understood how they can allow places with such low ratings, to remain open serving food. I would never eat in such a place.
They should be forced to close and concentrate on getting the place cleaned up, and ready for serving customers safely.
 
Apparently in NI and Wales it is obligatory to display their rating certificate.......in England only advisory/requested to do so :(
 
Box Brownie said:
Apparently in NI and Wales it is obligatory to display their rating certificate.......in England only advisory/requested to do so :(
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If I could not see any rating certificate, I would keep walking till I found one with a good rating.
 
All this mention of calories in food is making me hungry, I have been doing well and not over eating. Looks like I will have to add more heathy food to my shopping basket.
I think more vegetable is in order.
 
Just watching a Doctor on Good Morning, and he suggest we all drink a glass of milk a day. I am sure another Doctor just recently said, milk is not good for adults.
Very hard to know who is right. :thinking:
 
The past year or so has been miserable enough without resorting to the diet of a Guinea Pig.
Might as well enjoy your food and drink, taken up cold smoking food and Beer brewing.
Good fun and something worthwhile at the end of it too.
 
Milk is a high fat food meant for baby cows. :facepalm:

In the past, we drank it as a dietary supplement (especially kids) because less food was available to most - now it is just marketing and social programming that makes us drink it.

I stopped having milk in the house about five years ago as two of my grandchildren were allergic to it - I certainly don't miss it and have had a lot less trouble with my IBS since.
 
jonbeeza said:
Just watching a Doctor on Good Morning, and he suggest we all drink a glass of milk a day. I am sure another Doctor just recently said, milk is not good for adults.
Very hard to know who is right. :thinking:
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Milk is one of the best and cheapest sources of calcium, which is needed to maintain good bone strength and avoid early onset osteoporosis.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Is My Pain Tendonitis or Tendinosis?

We talked to sports medicine physicians about the difference between tendonitis and tendinosis, including what causes these conditions and the different treatment options available for each.
my.clevelandclinic.org my.clevelandclinic.org
 
Sky said:
Milk is a high fat food meant for baby cows. :facepalm:

In the past, we drank it as a dietary supplement (especially kids) because less food was available to most - now it is just marketing and social programming that makes us drink it.

I stopped having milk in the house about five years ago as two of my grandchildren were allergic to it - I certainly don't miss it and have had a lot less trouble with my IBS since.
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Just waiting for the scientists to bring out the new milk that they have developed. They have supposedly found the secret ingredients, unique to milk. But of course without the milk producing disadvantages.
 
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jonbeeza said:
Just waiting for the scientists to bring out the new milk that they have developed. They have supposedly found the secret ingredients, unique to milk. But of course without the milk producing disadvantages.
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Wracks brains ~ fairly sure in my Biology A level we did a project to show hard it is to replicate "grass to milk"..........................however too long ago to recall whether it was theoretical exercise or included any practical steps in e.g. breaking down the grass :thinking:

PS suffice to say there are plenty of vegetarians & vegans who don't drink milk and they are not held up as any less healthy in regard calcium deficiency than those that do drink milk?
 
Box Brownie said:
PS suffice to say there are plenty of vegetarians & vegans who don't drink milk and they are not held up as any less healthy in regard calcium deficiency than those that do drink milk?
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Indeed - in Asian countries like China where cows' milk isn't part of their 'heritage' people manage OK. In fact a lot are intolerant of milk products because of it (although less than one would expect) - they are catching up now though and are one of the world's largest producers of it.
 
Sky said:
Indeed - in Asian countries like China where cows' milk isn't part of their 'heritage' people manage OK. In fact a lot are intolerant of milk products because of it (although less than one would expect) - they are catching up now though and are one of the world's largest producers of it.
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I understood that Lactose intolerance was higher (genetically?) in Chinese and Japanese people than in Westerners :thinking: Having said that some years back I was taking one of our Chinese suppliers to some of our specific customers on whilst he was visiting us. I do recall that he had milk in his tea..................or should that be described as 'tea in his milk', as you could barely call what he poured himself as a "cup of tea" :thinking: but he quaffed down 2 to 3 cups whenever we stopped for lunch or tea anywhere.
 
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Humans are the only mammals that continue to drink milk after our mothers stop producing it. It is not natural to drink milk as an adult from a biological point of view. In fact, only the colder countries like Scandinavia, Germany etc where people's guts are used to milk due to the colder weather to store it, vs say Italy, where Olive Oil is used more. It also explains why the Italians don't drink milk based coffee after lunch as they think it upsets their stomach. But this is more so because a cappuccino is roughly just over 100ml, and most people can tolerate 100ml of milk a day without getting a bad reaction.

I am the same, I can drink coffee with milk, I can even have a bowl of cereal (I never finish all the milk in the cereal), but if I have a latte and then cereal then some ice-cream in the same day, my guts goes crazy and I start to break wind...
 
IMG_6872.JPG

Been out and bought some healthy stuff, Bananas Apple Tomatoes Beansprouts and Celery.

Pity they have to use so much plastic. :mad:
 
Box Brownie said:
Wracks brains ~ fairly sure in my Biology A level we did a project to show hard it is to replicate "grass to milk"..........................however too long ago to recall whether it was theoretical exercise or included any practical steps in e.g. breaking down the grass :thinking:

PS suffice to say there are plenty of vegetarians & vegans who don't drink milk and they are not held up as any less healthy in regard calcium deficiency than those that do drink milk?
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As long as they actively ensure that they get enough nutrients in their diet. I have known a couple of friends that turned vegetarian to have some mini or health issues that they discovered was down to some missing nutrients.
 
Box Brownie said:
Apparently in NI and Wales it is obligatory to display their rating certificate.......in England only advisory/requested to do so :(
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I’m surprised that’s not the case in England.
though you do see some take aways that out the rating at the very bottom of their door rather than at eye level...
 
Rapscallion said:
I’m surprised that’s not the case in England.
though you do see some take aways that out the rating at the very bottom of their door rather than at eye level...
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you can search the rating of a particular outlet online so i'm not sure why they don't just make it compulsory.
 
This is the page I found......if you scroll down to the section 'Mandatory Display" that has an insight. And for me, as that section infers, if/where it is mandatory it raises standards overall :)

www.food.gov.uk

Display of food hygiene ratings in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (2018 wave of research)

We have commissioned independent research to assess the proportion of food businesses that are displaying their food hygiene ratings since 2011. This report provides the findings from the 2018 wave of research making comparisons to previous years where possible.
www.food.gov.uk www.food.gov.uk
 
jonbeeza said:
Pity they have to use so much plastic.
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I must be alone in being glad that a lot of fruit is in plastic packaging. The thought of (especially in these pandemic days) eating loose fruit that has been squeezed, prodded and sniffed by multiple people to check for freshness\ripeness scares the hell out of me.
 
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