BMW Stop / Start warning light

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testbloke

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Kevin
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I have a 2012 BMW X1 diesel which as far as I know is still on the original battery.
Stop start waorked occasionally when I first got the car but has not worked (has not stopped the engine) for about a year now. I have no worries about this as it's utterly useless and puts extra wear and tear on other engine components (in my opinion).
However, last night the stop start warning light came on, ironically after the longest run its had in a couple of months. Have just measured the battery and after standing a while it measured 12.4V, with engine running meaured 14.2V, therefore seems healthy ?
What else could cause the warning light? I think there is a sensor somewhere on teh gearbox to detect neutral and also a sensor on the negative battery terminal?

Wit a new battery abd recode £400 from BMW I am reluctant to pay this for a function I don't actually want but I detest warning lights !!!
 
Google suggests most common issues are neutral sensor or weak battery.

Might just have to suck it up and take it to a garage. Not got any independents/specialists nearby, they'll be cheaper.

e:

from BMW forums

This is an issue that concerns me since I plan on purchasing an X1 and recently found out that this issue might be throughout the entire X vehicle lineup. A coworker experienced the battery discharge problem with her X3 last week and was told by the dealer that she drives the car improperly. An addendum to the manual states ( I can't confirm this, maybe someone can) that the vehicle needs to be driven for at least 10 miles at highway speed every day to properly charge the battery. This information was not presented to her before she purchased the X3 and since she has a similar commute as mine, ~ 6 miles on local streets, it might happen again
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With Brake Energy Regeneration, BMW EfficientDynamics points the way to a more energy-efficient future. As soon as you brake or take your foot off the accelerator, the kinetic energy is captured and fed to the battery. This reduces the amount of power the battery takes from the engine and hence lowers fuel consumption. When the driver presses the accelerator, on the other hand, the alternator is decoupled from the drivetrain. With fewer components drawing power from the drivetrain, more of the engine's output can go into accelerating the car.

From BMW pages
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If that is true about doing 10 miles at highway speed to properly charge the battery, that is a very poor system. Most cars have had smart charge alternators for around 10yrs and don't need such specifics to recharge the battery.
Can the Stop/Start function be switched off? If so (may have to be done for each journey), I'd have thought it would turn off the warning light too.

It's highly unlikely Stop/start will wear out any other components on the engine.
 
Our 1series exhibits the same thing, dealer said we weren't doing enough miles at high enough speed and should either charge manually overnight of do longer runs etc. Wife is now doing a few more miles and it's gone away. Funnily enough my old R80 bike had a similar problem, swapped out a few lights, got a new regulator and the problem went away, maybe it's a BMW thing.
Matt
 
You need Mazda Skyactive with i-stop. It doesn't use the battery but controls the positions of the pistons when stops, then starts the engine by injecting fuel and igniting. about 0.4 secs to start with no drain on the battery
 
Byker28i said:
You need Mazda Skyactive with i-stop. It doesn't use the battery but controls the positions of the pistons when stops, then starts the engine by injecting fuel and igniting. about 0.4 secs to start with no drain on the battery
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To be fair none employ the systems from my first start stop in 1996 anymore for a long time. The engines including BMW stop in a controlled manner at the most efficient point to restart. Not only from reducing the crank power required but also to provide a smooth experience.

I would hazard a guess that the issue is elsewhere and this is mainly a sympton; low battery can prevent as can airconditioning use and many other conditions.

Without simply scanning the log files it's impossible to tell for certain what is happening.
 
CAN I BRING YOUR ATTENTION TO there has been a spate of bmw fires x1 as well as x5s etc and the first signs is battery probs ie flat battery or not kicking over right google bmw fires just a heads up
 
dejongj said:
To be fair none employ the systems from my first start stop in 1996 anymore for a long time. The engines including BMW stop in a controlled manner at the most efficient point to restart. Not only from reducing the crank power required but also to provide a smooth experience.

I would hazard a guess that the issue is elsewhere and this is mainly a sympton; low battery can prevent as can airconditioning use and many other conditions.

Without simply scanning the log files it's impossible to tell for certain what is happening.
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Was thinking more along OP's oriniginal post of Batteries getting knackered through stop start.
Mazda's non use of battery is actually a clever technology. Most other cars still use the starter
 
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Byker28i said:
Was thinking more along OP's oriniginal post of Batteries getting knackered through stop start.
Mazda's non use of battery is actually a clever technology. Most other cars still use the starter
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It is indeed. The OP voiced their own opinion which to be fair is something you hear all the time and is very ill informed. My 1996 VW Golf had it already with no adverse effects. None of this is new and doesn't apply any particular adverse effect as in wear on the engine and associated components by design.
 
I too have this problem with my 320 cabriolet. Took it to the local BMW dealership, they changed a sensor but this did not cure the problem. Took the car in again and they kept it on charge overnight, fetched it back and the auto stop/start worked perfectly for a few day's then stopped working again. I then contacted the dealership again and they said I had a leakage to the battery which was taking energy out when parked up overnight and it was the radio that was doing it. They wanted £300 for a new radio so I said I would be okay without the stop/start working.
 
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swiftflo said:
I too have this problem with my 320 cabriolet. Took it to the local BMW dealership, they changed a sensor but this did not cure the problem. Took the car in again and they kept it on charge overnight, fetched it back and the auto stop/start worked perfectly for a few day's then stopped working again. I then contacted the dealership again and they said I had a leakage to the battery which was taking energy out when parked up overnight and it was the radio that was doing it. They wanted £300 for a new radio so I said I would be okay without the stop/start working.
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Wouldn't you want the drain sorted? One day it will likely cause the car not to start at all.
 
dejongj said:
Wouldn't you want the drain sorted? One day it will likely cause the car not to start at all.
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You are probably right, I have had the car 2 years now and it still starts okay everytime.
 
Have you tried charging the battery up manually - does the warning light go out ? Does the stop / start work ?
If you do charge it and everything clears, does it reoccur after a few days - could indicate a battery issue...

It could be as Neil says a sensor playing up or your battery starting to give up ? A local specialist will be able to plug in and if there is a sensor giving the error code, they should be able to tell you ...
 
Quite
dejongj said:
It is indeed. The OP voiced their own opinion which to be fair is something you hear all the time and is very ill informed. My 1996 VW Golf had it already with no adverse effects. None of this is new and doesn't apply any particular adverse effect as in wear on the engine and associated components by design.
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Quite a lot of complaints by 1 series drivers of this happening and the battery not being fully charged though.
 
Byker28i said:
Quite


Quite a lot of complaints by 1 series drivers of this happening and the battery not being fully charged though.
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But not necessarily a use by stop start as the previous owner/poster clearly highlighted. Yes there is clear suggestion it is being prevented to work, but not that it is the cause of it not working. A radio draining the battery is a good root cause analysis. A low battery has an impact on many car systems and can cause for some weird and wonderful problems.
 
I suppose it is a bit more useful than indicators on a BMW...
 
dejongj said:
It is indeed. The OP voiced their own opinion which to be fair is something you hear all the time and is very ill informed. My 1996 VW Golf had it already with no adverse effects. None of this is new and doesn't apply any particular adverse effect as in wear on the engine and associated components by design.
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I fnothing else it applies wear to the atarter motors. Legally components of this nature have to function for 100k cycles which is factored as 15 years. If you then start the engine three times more frequently ...

andyred said:
Have you tried charging the battery up manually - does the warning light go out ? Does the stop / start work ?
If you do charge it and everything clears, does it reoccur after a few days - could indicate a battery issue...

It could be as Neil says a sensor playing up or your battery starting to give up ? A local specialist will be able to plug in and if there is a sensor giving the error code, they should be able to tell you ...
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I am trying to live with it for now to be honest. I have measured the battery and it seems healthy, I did a 400 mile run on Saturday and it made no difference. I have an OBD BMW checker but it only tells you the fault is present, it does not diagnose individual sensors / Inputs. I was going to buy a trickle charger to see if charging the battery made any difference but to be honest :-
1) If it does, I still won't pay £400 for a battery until it actually struggles to start the car
2) Even if trickle charging works there is now way I would do this long term

Not that it helps me but I did find out that two codes can be programmed by the dealer (or keen amatuer) regarding stop / start, one code remembers the last button setting so you don't have to turn it off every time you start the car, the other code permanently disables it.
 
testbloke said:
I fnothing else it applies wear to the atarter motors. Legally components of this nature have to function for 100k cycles which is factored as 15 years. If you then start the engine three times more frequently ...
.
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I can't vouch for what other car manufacturers do, although I'd expect similar, but I know for a fact that Ford test them for 300,000 stop / starts.
 
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Have you a button to turn off the stop start system? If you do that does it continue with the warning?
 
nilagin said:
I can't vouch for what other car manufacturers do, although I'd expect similar, but I know for a fact that Ford test them for 300,000 stop / starts.
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Further more, I know VAG doesn't use the same starter on the stop start models. Well at least not back in the days when it was rare. I think now it is just across the range. I can't imagine BMW not upgrading the starter either.
 
testbloke said:
I am trying to live with it for now to be honest. I have measured the battery and it seems healthy, I did a 400 mile run on Saturday and it made no difference. I have an OBD BMW checker but it only tells you the fault is present, it does not diagnose individual sensors / Inputs. I was going to buy a trickle charger to see if charging the battery made any difference but to be honest :-
1) If it does, I still won't pay £400 for a battery until it actually struggles to start the car
2) Even if trickle charging works there is now way I would do this long term
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Why £400 for a battery - surely you can get cheaper ?

Perhaps a local specialist has a more detailed reader that would actually tell you if a sensor has failed / thrown an error ? Have you spoken with your local BMW dealer to see if they can offer any suggestions - other than bringing it in and let us check it - might be worth it depending on how much they'd charge for a diagnostic read ?
 
nilagin said:
The most expensive Bosch battery Eurocarparts have for his car is £250.
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I know but you then either need the tool to code it or take it to a dealer, not like the good old days when you just swapped it out.
 
Quick thought, if this is classed as a safety system will it fail an MOT if showing an error?
 
testbloke said:
I know but you then either need the tool to code it or take it to a dealer, not like the good old days when you just swapped it out.
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Why on earth (no pun intended) would you need to code a battery? This didn't come from the same dealer mentioned in post #3 by any chance did it?
 
Because the batteries now have sensors as part of the stop start function. I believe it is a charge cycle count that has to be reset. Have a look at this for over engineering...
IMG_1474281185.471817.jpg
 
nilagin said:
Why on earth (no pun intended) would you need to code a battery? This didn't come from the same dealer mentioned in post #3 by any chance did it?
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Weirdly you are supposed to on BMWs, it's something to do with the car changing the charging profile of the battery as it ages. Apparently if you don't tell it that it's a new battery then it could potentially try to charge it too vigorously and damage it. Not sure that it's actually a real thing though.

@testbloke I had a 1series for 5years (bought when it was 2.5years old). The battery was never very good when I got it and stop/start only worked on a handful of occasions. I couldn't get anywhere with the dealer checking and replacing it so in the end I did it myself by buying one online and then coding it myself (there are ebay sellers who sell the cable and software you need, although it can be a pain in the arse to get working).
I don't remember ever having a warning light come up on mine though. The symptoms were that the stop/start wasn't working and then as the battery got worse we'd turn on the ignition in the morning to find that the clock had reset itself. Doing a long motorway drive for a few hours would normally give us a week of the clock being ok but then it would start resetting again (particularly when it was cold in winter). I changed the battery at that point as it's our only car so not being able to start it would be really bad.
 
Thanks topbanana, at the moment I can run air con and radio without engine running without and noticeable drop in battery voltage.
Another strange one started, twice now i have returned to the car and a window is down, as if it thinks a finger trap sensor has triggered or something, not ideal when your camera gear was in the back seat !
 
nilagin said:
Why on earth (no pun intended) would you need to code a battery? This didn't come from the same dealer mentioned in post #3 by any chance did it?
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BMW do this quite a lot.
Try having one of their motorbikes. Most accessories have to be enabled before they'll work, including...

LED flashing turn indicators
• Attractive flashing turn indicators on stalks, with state-of-the-art LED technology.
• White turn indicator glass with 2 LEDs per turn indicator.
• Enhanced safety on the road, provided by virtually zero-wear LED lights.
• Considerable reduction in current drain:
- The flash frequency has to be changed when LED turn indicators are fitted. In BMW Motorrad 's case this takes place via the CAN bus; all other aftermarket LED flashing turn indicators require the installation of a resistor (which means there is no reduction in power consumption).
• Installation and enabling only by authorised BMW Motorrad dealers, installation instructions on the RSD service data DVD (Repair and Service Data, BMW Motorrad).

Might explain.... :D
 
Byker28i, I remember when Honda introduced led's, one of the market quality guys explained these were not deemed user replaceable and therefore had to have s lifetime gaurentee. This was the indicators built into the wing mirrors. Any failures were getting changed free of charge, even out with warranty ...
 
Byker28i said:
BMW do this quite a lot.
Try having one of their motorbikes. Most accessories have to be enabled before they'll work, including...

LED flashing turn indicators
• Attractive flashing turn indicators on stalks, with state-of-the-art LED technology.
• White turn indicator glass with 2 LEDs per turn indicator.
• Enhanced safety on the road, provided by virtually zero-wear LED lights.
• Considerable reduction in current drain:
- The flash frequency has to be changed when LED turn indicators are fitted. In BMW Motorrad 's case this takes place via the CAN bus; all other aftermarket LED flashing turn indicators require the installation of a resistor (which means there is no reduction in power consumption).
• Installation and enabling only by authorised BMW Motorrad dealers, installation instructions on the RSD service data DVD (Repair and Service Data, BMW Motorrad).

Might explain.... :D
Click to expand...
TopBanana said:
Weirdly you are supposed to on BMWs, it's something to do with the car changing the charging profile of the battery as it ages. Apparently if you don't tell it that it's a new battery then it could potentially try to charge it too vigorously and damage it. Not sure that it's actually a real thing though.
Click to expand...

Looks like they over complicate their systems to me, or do it to try to ensure owners get the dealers to fix the cars. Surely the idea of a smart charge system is to do it when most economical and only to a point that the battery is charged.
 
testbloke said:
Byker28i, I remember when Honda introduced led's, one of the market quality guys explained these were not deemed user replaceable and therefore had to have s lifetime gaurentee. This was the indicators built into the wing mirrors. Any failures were getting changed free of charge, even out with warranty ...
Click to expand...

gets worse though, Sat Nav power? Must be enabled sir or won't work. Heated Grips, even if you buy BMW parts, have to be enabled...
Theres someone at work with a £16k bike, needed to pay for workshop time when he wanted additional accessories enabled.
 
JFC. The wife's 1-series has had stop/start error showing up intermittently over the past few weeks. Initially reading this thread, I figured charging up the battery might help and worse-case scenario was to replace the battery. Knowing there's a sensor and it's not a straight-forward swap boggles the mind. Need to find a local BMW independent for this.
 
omens said:
JFC. The wife's 1-series has had stop/start error showing up intermittently over the past few weeks. Initially reading this thread, I figured charging up the battery might help and worse-case scenario was to replace the battery. Knowing there's a sensor and it's not a straight-forward swap boggles the mind. Need to find a local BMW independent for this.
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Welcome to the club!
 
Wow, some interesting reading and unknowns about the a quick and simple battery replacement - not !!!
 
12.4V sounds a little low for the battery charge. For a sealed AGM battery I would be looking at more like 12.8 to 12.9V. I'd certainly get it fully charged as a first step and then monitor to see how it's holding that charge and/or if that resolves the warning light.
 
I've got a four year old Kia ceed and it's got 108k on it! Stop/start doesn't work....... Drove for three hours on motorway and I came off at junction it stopped........ Must be battery then
 
Mark twiglet said:
I've got a four year old Kia ceed and it's got 108k on it! Stop/start doesn't work....... Drove for three hours on motorway and I came off at junction it stopped........ Must be battery then
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maybe it just broke down :-)
 
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