Bitten by a dog ... grrrr

ST4 said:
No, the scum on the train back from Leeds, the drunken messes in Leeds on Saturday night indicate one thing. Too many people cannot be trusted with alcohol. Rationing to no more than 10 units/wk with no more than 5 units in any 24hr period needs done. Such a system could work, using an infrastructure like the Oyster card. If not, total prohibition. It would solve the really drunk driver problem too.
Click to expand...

Or just quietly dilute it down.... I agree solvent abuse is a big problem. The problem is drinking needs to become less fashionable if we want people to binge less


ST4 said:
Vintage cars do such a small millage the polution they make is negligible, plus they are ace. If we banned dogs/cats the CO2 not generated by pets, could be offset by that of vintage cars. In my dream world it would be nice to hear an E type come past, rather than the squelch of Fidos crap under my foot.
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My problem is a daily runner vintage toyota MR something or near-vintage peugeot 106/205 or whatever. An example of the former would wake me up and make me think there is an earthquake going on as the whole house would shake. A polluting lazy V8 wasn't enough, the scum had to do something with silencer to make it worse. And every time one of those bangers go past you basically want to have your gas mask on. You guys probably don't realise how toxic and environmentally damaging petrol vapour is.
 
Yves Geza said:
No need! After the referendum the Socialist State of Scotland will steadily bring North Korea to North Britain!! :p:ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

I doubt the non-conformists will get their way.

It's not the Daily Wail readers you need to worry about it's the Guardian readers !
 
daugirdas said:
Or just quietly dilute it down.... I agree solvent abuse is a big problem. The problem is drinking needs to become less fashionable if we want people to binge less




My problem is a daily runner vintage toyota MR something or near-vintage peugeot 106/205 or whatever. An example of the former would wake me up and make me think there is an earthquake going on as the whole house would shake. A polluting lazy V8 wasn't enough, the scum had to do something with silencer to make it worse. And every time one of those bangers go past you basically want to have your gas mask on. You guys probably don't realise how toxic and environmentally damaging petrol vapour is.
Click to expand...

You might be surprised but I do know about petrol 'vapour'

It has a very harmful set of ingredients but it's low boiling point means it dissipates quickly and being heavier than air it actually falls to a lowest point. As a highly inflammable vapour it should be avoided for BBQ and bonfire use.

If you mean petro exhaust emissions after burning then you are dealing with a cocktail of complex hydrocarbons and additives that together produce a hotch potch of carcinogens and soft tissue oxidisers. Not great for a human, insect or animal. Its lethal on many levels and the Carbon Monoxides produced will also affect oxygenation of blood.......

S
 
daugirdas said:
My problem is a daily runner vintage toyota MR something or near-vintage peugeot 106/205 or whatever. An example of the former would wake me up and make me think there is an earthquake going on as the whole house would shake. A polluting lazy V8 wasn't enough, the scum had to do something with silencer to make it worse. And every time one of those bangers go past you basically want to have your gas mask on. You guys probably don't realise how toxic and environmentally damaging petrol vapour is.
Click to expand...

Fortunately, that's your problem.

Never known a toyota MR anything have a V8 either...
 
Hugh Jarse said:
You might be surprised but I do know about petrol 'vapour'

It has a very harmful set of ingredients but it's low boiling point means it dissipates quickly and being heavier than air it actually falls to a lowest point. As a highly inflammable vapour it should be avoided for BBQ and bonfire use.

If you mean petro exhaust emissions after burning then you are dealing with a cocktail of complex hydrocarbons and additives that together produce a hotch potch of carcinogens and soft tissue oxidisers. Not great for a human, insect or animal. Its lethal on many levels and the Carbon Monoxides produced will also affect oxygenation of blood.......

S
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't particularly want to put too much technical detail. However some lighter hydrocarbons will happily disperse in the atmosphere contributing to global warming far more than co2. The partially burnt stuff could easily add here. If it was co2 alone we would have a much smaller problem.

RichardtheSane said:
Fortunately, that's your problem.

Never known a toyota MR anything have a V8 either...
Click to expand...

That is not the point. It is big noisy inefficient and polluting.
 
daugirdas said:
My problem is a daily runner vintage toyota MR something or near-vintage peugeot 106/205 or whatever. An example of the former would wake me up and make me think there is an earthquake going on as the whole house would shake. A polluting lazy V8 wasn't enough, the scum had to do something with silencer to make it worse. And every time one of those bangers go past you basically want to have your gas mask on. You guys probably don't realise how toxic and environmentally damaging petrol vapour is.
Click to expand...

You seem extremely ignorant yourself, are you not aware of the dangers of diesel pollution? Many researchers are finding it's actually worse pollution than petrol (all because of a singular quest to reduce co2 over recent years).

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...pollution-premature-deaths-costs-nhs-billions

Diesel fumes more damaging to health than petrol engines
Ministry report says 'green' cars contribute significantly to air pollution and lung disease.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...erts-say-green-fuel-killing-thousands-us.html

The deadly diesel deception: We were bullied into buying diesel cars to help fight global warming. Now experts say this 'green' fuel is killing thousands of us

http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/faqs/buy_petrol_diesel_car.html
Diesel engines produce more nitrogen oxides, sulphur dioxide, black smoke and particles - associated with poor urban air quality.

Do yourself a favour and do some research, diesel is no solution, and for air quality in urban areas is actually far worse.
 
daugirdas said:
That is not the point. It is big noisy inefficient and polluting.
Click to expand...

Not that big either.

I put it to you that your main problem is the fact it is overly noisy - a perfectly justified problem too.

Fact is, older cars are getting less common than newer ones so in the grander scheme of things it is unimportant.
 
daugirdas said:
2001 diesel mondeo is probably less than £1000 if you look around. Any more reasons to drive petrol spitting bangers? If they spend less on fags and on booze they could afford far more even on min wage. I started with low salary yet somewhow managed to buy some gear and a set of wheels.

If you think climate warming is not an issue you are lucky to be in UK this year. Many people in US, China and Australia or Brazil experrienced otherwise... Don't worry it is coming our way too - extreme winters and really wet summers already plagued us recently.
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Time to admit it now; you really are a 62 year old female Guardian reader, aren't you? :lol:
 
viv1969 said:
Time to admit it now; you really are a 62 year old female Guardian reader, aren't you? :LOL:
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from 16 to 62 in 2 days... You are not very good with guess the age, are you :p

RichardtheSane said:
Not that big either.

I put it to you that your main problem is the fact it is overly noisy - a perfectly justified problem too.

Fact is, older cars are getting less common than newer ones so in the grander scheme of things it is unimportant.
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Noise and smell. Both are just as bad. We have to give a lot of praise to the government scrappage scheme. It took a lot of hopeless bangers off the road. UK is too small to affect pollution globally but if the US and other big countries did the same we would be in a better place.

Dave1 said:
You seem extremely ignorant yourself, are you not aware of the dangers of diesel pollution? Many researchers are finding it's actually worse pollution than petrol (all because of a singular quest to reduce co2 over recent years).

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...pollution-premature-deaths-costs-nhs-billions

Diesel fumes more damaging to health than petrol engines
Ministry report says 'green' cars contribute significantly to air pollution and lung disease.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...erts-say-green-fuel-killing-thousands-us.html

The deadly diesel deception: We were bullied into buying diesel cars to help fight global warming. Now experts say this 'green' fuel is killing thousands of us

http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/faqs/buy_petrol_diesel_car.html
Diesel engines produce more nitrogen oxides, sulphur dioxide, black smoke and particles - associated with poor urban air quality.

Do yourself a favour and do some research, diesel is no solution, and for air quality in urban areas is actually far worse.
Click to expand...

1. I have not said diesel is the solution. A couple posts above you can find me praising electric as the future. Until we get there it is diesel all the way.

2. Diesel is certainly no worse than the coal power plant on your doorstep

3. DPF largely addresses most of the issues mentioned in your post. Technology moves forward.

4. NO2 emissions are also higher with turbocharged petrol cars. Turbocharging is an inevitable trend until we go all electric. NO2 is simply by product of air reacting with itself at high temperatures

5. I am by no means defending smoking worn out diesels, most commonly taxis of all sorts. Get it fixed or scrap it - MOT rules should be made tighter.
 
Yves Geza said:
No need! After the referendum the Socialist State of Scotland will steadily bring North Korea to North Britain!! :p:ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

Not the sort of socialism I want. It will be worse, not better. They'll give out free university tuition so ever numbskull 18-22 year old will find a reason not to get a job and get drunk off student loans.
 
ST4 said:
Not the sort of socialism I want. It will be worse, not better. They'll give out free university tuition so ever numbskull 18-22 year old will find a reason not to get a job and get drunk off student loans.
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Is there anything wrong with people getting education? I mean people that are capable of learning, and using their degree knowledge after graduation... We may discuss issues like entry level requirements, etc, etc but this is all secondary. The main point is that bright people from poorer backgrounds should not be denied education like in the US or, right now in England too. Not everyone is a yob if they earn less than £45k each.
 
daugirdas said:
Is there anything wrong with people getting education? I mean people that are capable of learning, and using their degree knowledge after graduation... We may discuss issues like entry level requirements, etc, etc but this is all secondary. The main point is that bright people from poorer backgrounds should not be denied education like in the US or, right now in England too. Not everyone is a yob if they earn less than £45k each.
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No, but there is every point in denying people education for frivolous courses like media studies, social sciences etc, light engineering. Why should I have to pay for them to laze about going to 2 lectures a week and finance their beer hobby?
 
ST4 said:
No, but there is every point in denying people education for frivolous courses like media studies, social sciences etc, light engineering. Why should I have to pay for them to laze about going to 2 lectures a week and finance their beer hobby?
Click to expand...

Ok, maybe public funding bodies should review the state funded courses and make sure everything is relevant? I can't see much wrong with economy, civil engineering, medicine, physical sciences and in fact a lot of social subjects. I am sure you are happy to pay for those specialists enhancing our wellbeing and welfare. Media studies is potentially edging on my 'pet hate' list though.
 
RichardtheSane said:
Fortunately, that's your problem.

Never known a toyota MR anything have a V8 either...
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There's a company called woodsport that does v8 MR2 conversions.

But yeah, from the factory they were always 1.6 to 2.0ltr.

daugirdas said:
That is not the point. It is big noisy inefficient and polluting.
Click to expand...

My 18 year old Celica has the same engine as the MR2 (of that period) and averages over 30mpg. That's not really all that inefficient. It also easily passes it's MOT every year.

Isn't the impact of building a new car & shipping it to the UK more damaging than continuing to run a slightly less efficient car? It would certainly be more damaging on my wallet. :p

daugirdas said:
1. I have not said diesel is the solution. A couple posts above you can find me praising electric as the future. Until we get there it is diesel all the way.
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Yeah, electric. Where exactly is all the extra power for that going to come from again?
 
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ST4 said:
Not the sort of socialism I want. It will be worse, not better. They'll give out free university tuition so ever numbskull 18-22 year old will find a reason not to get a job and get drunk off student loans.
Click to expand...

you do realise that it is still pretty hard to get into university even though we don't have to pay for it?

you seem to be down on everything, the police, horse owners, car emissions, and now students. precription for citalopram needed
 
ST4 said:
No, but there is every point in denying people education for frivolous courses like media studies, social sciences etc, light engineering. Why should I have to pay for them to laze about going to 2 lectures a week and finance their beer hobby?
Click to expand...

never went to uni I take it
 
H2O said:
There's a company called woodsport that does v8 MR2 conversions.

But yeah, from the factory they were always 1.6 to 2.0ltr.



My 18 year old Celica has the same engine as the MR2 (of that period) and averages over 30mpg. That's not really all that inefficient. It also easily passes it's MOT every year.

Isn't the impact of building a new car & shipping it to the UK more damaging than continuing to run a slightly less efficient car? It would certainly be more damaging on my wallet. :p



Yeah, electric. Where exactly is all the extra power for that going to come from again?
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Yes although this has gone way off topic I agree with Harry
Nothing wrong with running an old vehicle for fun or cost reasons something like the Celica is probably quite efficient anyway when it's properly maintained
I run a 1980s twostroke motorbike not sure how that is for emissions tho!
electric cars are a con the coal that's burnt to produce the electricity is far worse for the environment than any modern petrol car
 
daugirdas said:
f
5. I am by no means defending smoking worn out diesels, most commonly taxis of all sorts. Get it fixed or scrap it - MOT rules should be made tighter.
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at least in London any newly licenced taxi has to meet pretty tough emissions guidelines and they won't routinely license any taxi over 15 years old
 
daugirdas said:
Is there anything wrong with people getting education? I mean people that are capable of learning, and using their degree knowledge after graduation... We may discuss issues like entry level requirements, etc, etc but this is all secondary. The main point is that bright people from poorer backgrounds should not be denied education like in the US or, right now in England too. Not everyone is a yob if they earn less than £45k each.
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Nobody is denying people from a poorer back an education at all in England. It is available to all. What on earth are you on about?
 
POAH said:
never went to uni I take it
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That is the problem, I did and I never should have been near one. There are many of these 'students". I am not talking about the medcines, sciences, arts at decent establishments but all these silly courses at so called universities that were once colleges. Why should I pay, for someone else, to bum around for 3-4 years for them to get the job they could have got straight from school. Education, like a nice car, like a nice house, isn't a right, its a privilege earned on real academic attainment and finance.When only a select few (read bright people) went to uni, the government could give grants so those who wanted to go, and were clever enough to go, did go. No-one in Britain has been denied a uni education in the UK as they couldn't afford it. Now people go on loans who have no business being there. Uni should be for the intelectually elete, not for the intelectually average. Hence I should not have been there.

Perhaps if I hadn't gone to uni, the government should have lent me the £20k to buy a Mercedes. It would have been more useful to me.
 
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He thought you were a lost sheep and was rounding you up.
The nip was they same as they give a sheep who won't do as he was told.
Not his fault you have wimpy skin.
 
ST4 said:
That is the problem, I did and I never should have been near one. There are many of these 'students". I am not talking about the medcines, sciences, arts at decent establishments but all these silly courses at so called universities that were once colleges. Why should I pay, for someone else, to bum around for 3-4 years for them to get the job they could have got straight from school. Education, like a nice car, like a nice house, isn't a right, its a privilege earned on real academic attainment and finance.

Perhaps if I hadn't gone to uni, the government should have lent me the £20k to buy a Mercedes. It would have been more useful to me.
Click to expand...

People don't bum about for 3-4 years, you get removed from the university if you don't do work.

education is nothing like a nice car or house, education cannot be bought
 
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POAH said:
People don't bum about for 3-4 years, you get removed from the university if you don't do work.

education is nothing like a nice car or house, education cannot be bought
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But it can be. It is a service, you pay the uni, they teach you, examine you, give your learning material, ok you have to take it in. You need to pay for the lectures, buildings, upkeep like any other business have to - it needs to be economically viable. You also elect to go there, like I elect to go to a restaurant for dinner. Why should the chef pay for my meal? Why should the tax payer pay for me to dine in a restaurant, why should the tax payer pay for people to go to uni?

Its why, totally OT, why I could never vote lib dem or yes for this free for all uni education crap.
 
POAH said:
People don't bum about for 3-4 years, you get removed from the university if you don't do work.

education is nothing like a nice car or house, education cannot be bought
Click to expand...

But it can be. It is a service, you pay the uni, they teach you, examine you, give your learning material, ok you have to take it in. You need to pay for the lectures, buildings, upkeep like any other business have to - it needs to be economically viable. You also elect to go there, like I elect to go to a restaurant for dinner. Why should the chef pay for my meal? Why should the tax payer pay for me to dine in a restaurant, why should the tax payer pay for people to go to uni?

Its why, totally OT, why I could never vote lib dem or yes for this free for all uni education crap.
 
POAH said:
People don't bum about for 3-4 years, you get removed from the university if you don't do work.

education is nothing like a nice car or house, education cannot be bought
Click to expand...
That is not strictly true. I know of a few institutions where you can buy your degree or masters. Luckily most employers don't value those degrees much either.
 
boyfalldown said:
at least in London any newly licenced taxi has to meet pretty tough emissions guidelines and they won't routinely license any taxi over 15 years old
Click to expand...

Proper regulations are coming in force from 2016. However London is not the only city in uk, and rules are pretty relaxed elsewhere. Many bad garages will put additives and tweak cars to pass emissions tests.

ST4 said:
That is the problem, I did and I never should have been near one. There are many of these 'students". I am not talking about the medcines, sciences, arts at decent establishments but all these silly courses at so called universities that were once colleges. Why should I pay, for someone else, to bum around for 3-4 years for them to get the job they could have got straight from school. Education, like a nice car, like a nice house, isn't a right, its a privilege earned on real academic attainment and finance.When only a select few (read bright people) went to uni, the government could give grants so those who wanted to go, and were clever enough to go, did go. No-one in Britain has been denied a uni education in the UK as they couldn't afford it. Now people go on loans who have no business being there. Uni should be for the intelectually elete, not for the intelectually average. Hence I should not have been there.

Perhaps if I hadn't gone to uni, the government should have lent me the £20k to buy a Mercedes. It would have been more useful to me.
Click to expand...

You may have had poor experience in a low ranking university. It doesn't mean same happens everywhere. This country needs to focus on higher technologies not support roles as a primary focus. We can't import any more trained nhs staff from outside eu. We need to educate people at home. Therefore I fundamentally disagree with everything here.

dejongj said:
Nobody is denying people from a poorer back an education at all in England. It is available to all. What on earth are you on about?
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Ok, proper term would be pricing out, wouldn't it? It is laughable people have to graduate with 100k loans. As we all know the system is a mess and loans will eventually become means tested and we are right at home of us style welfare division
 
ST4 said:
But it can be. It is a service, you pay the uni, they teach you, examine you, give your learning material, ok you have to take it in. You need to pay for the lectures, buildings, upkeep like any other business have to - it needs to be economically viable. You also elect to go there, like I elect to go to a restaurant for dinner. Why should the chef pay for my meal? Why should the tax payer pay for me to dine in a restaurant, why should the tax payer pay for people to go to uni?

Its why, totally OT, why I could never vote lib dem or yes for this free for all uni education crap.
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well without free education I would never have got my first degree and neither would my sister or my wife, I'd not be able to send my kids to university either. So thats at least 5 people who would not have got an education when they are capable (I'm assuming my kids will go since they are only 4 & 9). In your world, kids would have to take out loans 36k to get an education and then have to pay this back if they actually get a job that pays enough to do so. your economic model is pretty crap, the goverment would end up loosing a lot of money (they currently loose 48p per 100p with student loans) while the educated work force decreases forcing people to hire immigrants. So either your tax dollars pay for education or for unemployment benifit ;)

where did you study and what degree did you get?
 
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daugirdas said:
Proper regulations are coming in force from 2016. However London is not the only city in uk, and rules are pretty relaxed elsewhere. Many bad garages will put additives and tweak cars to pass emissions tests.



You may have had poor experience in a low ranking university. It doesn't mean same happens everywhere. This country needs to focus on higher technologies not support roles as a primary focus. We can't import any more trained nhs staff from outside eu. We need to educate people at home. Therefore I fundamentally disagree with everything here.



Ok, proper term would be pricing out, wouldn't it? It is laughable people have to graduate with 100k loans. As we all know the system is a mess and loans will eventually become means tested and we are right at home of us style welfare division
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The amount of crap that comes out of university is astounding. We are breeding a nation of call centre supervisors . This won't save the NHS. I'd argue our current education model of giving away degrees for "entrepreneurship" "media science" out of state coffers is why Britain is the mess it is. School education failing means less are able to qualify for science and engineering positions
 
ST4 said:
No, but there is every point in denying people education for frivolous courses like media studies, social sciences etc, light engineering. Why should I have to pay for them to laze about going to 2 lectures a week and finance their beer hobby?
Click to expand...


Errmmm Please enlighten me

What momey are yoou providing for students to go to university? Exactly when as of Now and 2 years prior most will do 3 year courses and graduate with £50K+ debt?

Lectures are not like 45 minutes sessions at school. They exist to open minds to original thinking and setting tasks that drive students' research for themselves. What uni did you attend?
 
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wait. so we've gone from dogs, to horses/cyclists, to cars/tax, to education?

well done, OOF. well done indeed :D

train-derail-3.jpg
 
Hugh Jarse said:
Errmmm Please enlighten me

What momey are yoou providing for students to go to university? Exactly when as of Now and 2 years prior most will do 3 year courses and graduate with £50K+ debt?

Lectures are not like 45 minutes sessions at school. They exist to open minds to original thinking and setting tasks that drive students' research for themselves. What uni did you attend?
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I have a BSC hons in chemistry from the university of Aberdeen if you must know.

Lectures, like anything, are the student getting the benefit of someone elses time, expertise. This, IMHO, needs paid for by the students. In Scotland tuition fee's are paid for. Student loans, the finance comes from the government. Without the loans people wouldn't go, and I (as a tax payer) are helping finance this. It's not even like the loan, like a bank loan, has to repaid at a commercially viable rate and in a commercially normal time frame.
 
POAH said:
well without free education I would never have got my first degree and neither would my sister or my wife, I'd not be able to send my kids to university either. So thats at least 5 people who would not have got an education when they are capable (I'm assuming my kids will go since they are only 4 & 9). In your world, kids would have to take out loans 36k to get an education and then have to pay this back if they actually get a job that pays enough to do so. your economic model is pretty crap, the goverment would end up loosing a lot of money (they currently loose 48p per 100p with student loans) while the educated work force decreases forcing people to hire immigrants. So either your tax dollars pay for education or for unemployment benifit ;)

where did you study and what degree did you get?
Click to expand...

Could you not have got work without a degree ?
 
neil_g said:
wait. so we've gone from dogs, to horses/cyclists, to cars/tax, to education?

well done, OOF. well done indeed :D

train-derail-3.jpg
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Neil

What the hell

It's hot. Someone got nipped by a dog, not everyone like car bonnet ornamrnts (sorry cyclists) The ban it all DM brigade are out and I a getting paid to sit on a sun terrace drinking silly expensive "real lemonade" from strange shaped glass bottles, waiting for a client rep whose car has broken down because he went to uni/rides a horse/dodsn't hate otbers or whatever.

I will donate some of my unearned commission today to the charity that helps haters get over their Daily Mail mind warping addiction

Abandon hope all who enter that zone

What a gorgeous day and no rain or conspiracy tbeorists either....
 
ST4 said:
The amount of crap that comes out of university is astounding. We are breeding a nation of call centre supervisors . This won't save the NHS. I'd argue our current education model of giving away degrees for "entrepreneurship" "media science" out of state coffers is why Britain is the mess it is. School education failing means less are able to qualify for science and engineering positions
Click to expand...

Crap from crap universities frankly speaking. Your comment is certainly nil and void for any of top 20 uk universities and most likely beyond that. My experience at Warwick could not be more different. Students must be properly motivated to take advantage of the education.

School education is another topic. There are some shocking examples, and many world wide surveys are not encouraging.
 
daugirdas said:
Proper regulations are coming in force from 2016. However London is not the only city in uk, and rules are pretty relaxed elsewhere. Many bad garages will put additives and tweak cars to pass emissions tests.
Click to expand...

nowhere have I ever suggested it is. However at least on this front it appears to be leading the way ;). I imagine its fairly hard for a dodgy garage to fake manufacturer's tests, and the age of a vehicle
 
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