Autumn budget statement

dejongj

dejongj

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Just thought it would be good to have some commentary regarding the autumn budget statement...

First shocker, tax credit changes scrapped :eek: Not saying it is a bad thing or not, but talk about a huge u-turn. they've lost the plot...
 
Oh dear, so councils will be able to sell all their assets and keep the receipts...That will be interesting in the future to balance the books....What are we going to sell when we don't own anything anymore?
 
I see we desperately need more housing, but landlords are in some way evil and must be punished. Cheers George. You just destroyed one of the few areas of business that could be flourishing. Also, since lots of people are putting their pension money in buy to let, erm, oops.

Any news on the plans to destroy the independent contracting market? The rumour was that after 1 month of temporary labour you would become a permanent employee. Which would basically destroy an awful lot of small businesses. Again.
 
I think the Personal Service Companies proposals have died quietly for now. The travel and subsistence element have also been clarified and are only applicable to those inside IR35. I find that odd as I would have thought they always been there anyway....

Personally I'm in two minds about the rental market, I really can see you points, however I do think second home ownership needs to attract a premium and 3% isn't enough. There is a housing crisis and I feel that everyone should be able to afford a home, yet many people buying a second/third/fourth home and taking property out of the market from those who can't afford it. It continues to drive the prices up.

I find it a confusing budget overall, it seems we have lots of money for everything....Highlight was John McDonnell reading from Mao's red book,....
 
dejongj said:
Personally I'm in two minds about the rental market, I really can see you points, however I do think second home ownership needs to attract a premium and 3% isn't enough. There is a housing crisis and I feel that everyone should be able to afford a home, yet many people buying a second/third/fourth home and taking property out of the market from those who can't afford it. It continues to drive the prices up.
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That's probably true. But I think there's an easy distinction to make between 2nd home owners and buy to let owners. It seems odd to hit both when the b-t-l are by and large providing housing to people who are unable or unwilling to buy their own. Hammering landlords (probably) won't make a significant number of them sell property at a loss and hence bringing down prices. It's more likely to put up rents making it harder for renters to bridge the gap to ownership and making it tougher for a workforce to be geographically mobile.
 
Yup good point, the costs will just be passed through, rent rises at the next rent review cycle :)
 
Ah my mistake. He doesn't want to destroy the BTL sector totally. Just smaller businesses in it.....

Commercial property investors, with more than 15 properties, are expected to be exempt from the new charges.
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Cheers George. That should be good news for all the pensioners who put their money in property like you told them to. Oops.
 
Seems to be a budget of u-turns. This and the poor recent number on the deficit means things aren't looking good for Osbourne. When will people realise that Conservative economic competence is a myth?
 
Rapscallion said:
Seems to be a budget of u-turns. This and the poor recent number on the deficit means things aren't looking good for Osbourne. When will people realise that any politician's economic competence is a myth?
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FTFY
 
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Rapscallion said:
Seems to be a budget of u-turns. This and the poor recent number on the deficit means things aren't looking good for Osbourne. When will people realise that Conservative economic competence is a myth?
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What is wrong with a u turn? We all have ideas and sometimes when it comes to it, it's not the right thing to do. I dislike osbourne although fair play here, even if I do think it was a ploy to make them look like they listen to the public.

Do you have any proof that Tories can't manage an economy? It is doing much better than most other countries in the eu.
 
cambsno said:
What is wrong with a u turn? We all have ideas and sometimes when it comes to it, it's not the right thing to do. I dislike osbourne although fair play here, even if I do think it was a ploy to make them look like they listen to the public.

Do you have any proof that Tories can't manage an economy? It is doing much better than most other countries in the eu.
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The thought did cross my mind too but we're a bit far from the next election to be chasing voters and brownie points, maybe.

Despite regarding myself as a socialist I agree with trying to get people off benefits and into work. Every penny of benefit given to someone who could try harder to support themselves is another penny not available to be given to someone in genuine need and we do seem to have a lot of people who could try a lot harder to pay for their own lifestyles.
 
No cuts to the police , that's good considering they have lost 1000's of officers. I do wonder if recent events helped changing there minds...
 
cambsno said:
What is wrong with a u turn? We all have ideas and sometimes when it comes to it, it's not the right thing to do. I dislike osbourne although fair play here, even if I do think it was a ploy to make them look like they listen to the public.
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So, last week we desperately needed £30B of tax credit cuts. This week not so much. Those new forecasts came in pretty handy didn't they?

Mind you, Hanlon's Razor says it's more likely that George is an idiot than evil. I guess the next 4 years will show us.
 
JonathanRyan said:
So, last week we desperately needed £30B of tax credit cuts. This week not so much. Those new forecasts came in pretty handy didn't they?

Mind you, Hanlon's Razor says it's more likely that George is an idiot than evil. I guess the next 4 years will show us.
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At the face of it, it looks like you'll be paying for it :( sorry. I do find it an odd budget as well
 
JonathanRyan said:
That's probably true. But I think there's an easy distinction to make between 2nd home owners and buy to let owners. It seems odd to hit both when the b-t-l are by and large providing housing to people who are unable or unwilling to buy their own. Hammering landlords (probably) won't make a significant number of them sell property at a loss and hence bringing down prices. It's more likely to put up rents making it harder for renters to bridge the gap to ownership and making it tougher for a workforce to be geographically mobile.
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Buying a BTL while providing a rental property for someone, also keeps the housing market moving and keeps the house prices high though, so I can see why they'd want to tax people with BTL's more. We own a BTL property (well, it was LTB, but same difference), and if the tax we were paying on that significantly increased, we'd just have to put the rent up to make ends meet though, so there's no simple solution.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Is this some new plan? He stands up and says all the "good" news and a couple of minor irritating bits, sits down and all the papers write great things about him. Then next day we find out all the stuff he didn't have time to talk about. Hmm.....
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Tho I think it's kind of always been that way
 
JonathanRyan said:
Is this some new plan? He stands up and says all the "good" news and a couple of minor irritating bits, sits down and all the papers write great things about him. Then next day we find out all the stuff he didn't have time to talk about. Hmm.....
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It was on sky news yesterday lunchtime.
 
changes to dividend payments confirmed and also changes to travel claims and subsistence tax relieve for companies deemed to be personal services companies, b****r :-(
 
JonathanRyan said:
Is this some new plan? He stands up and says all the "good" news and a couple of minor irritating bits, sits down and all the papers write great things about him. Then next day we find out all the stuff he didn't have time to talk about. Hmm.....
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Standard practice to get the good news out and grab all the headlines from their media pals, then trickle down the bad news for those who can be bothered to go and actually examine the detail. The rich will definitely be getting richer, but it seems the poor may not be getting their benefits cut for now. I'll leave you to fathom out whether it is good or bad for those in the middle. :thinking:
 
Peter B said:
Standard practice to get the good news out and grab all the headlines from their media pals, then trickle down the bad news for those who can be bothered to go and actually examine the detail. :thinking:
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I can only assume you must get your news from somewhere else. As I mentioned earlier, it was all covered on sky news yesterday lunchtime. I wasn't paying much attention to it at the time as I was in the gym, but they covered the whole speech, from what I saw and the headlines and subtitles scrolling across the screen. Nothing was hidden
 
Mr Bump said:
changes to dividend payments confirmed and also changes to travel claims and subsistence tax relieve for companies deemed to be personal services companies, b****r :-(
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Only for those inside IR35 as I understood. So in reality is that actually a change at all?
 
nilagin said:
I can only assume you must get your news from somewhere else. As I mentioned earlier, it was all covered on sky news yesterday lunchtime. I wasn't paying much attention to it at the time as I was in the gym, but they covered the whole speech, from what I saw and the headlines and subtitles scrolling across the screen. Nothing was hidden
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I actually watched the whole thing live on the BBC. As ever with these things, there are always areas which don't get fully examined in a speech, and the student loans announcement was probably one of them. I reckon there are more to come.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...to-make-students-pay-6000-extra-a6748751.html
 
nilagin said:
It was on sky news yesterday lunchtime.
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Ah I noticed that the short money change wasn't mentioned and saw that the press weren't up in arms about the nurses thing so assumed he'd buried that too.

I guess a more interesting question then is why aren't the newspapers more angry about the nurses thing?

KitsuneAndy said:
Buying a BTL while providing a rental property for someone, also keeps the housing market moving and keeps the house prices high though, so I can see why they'd want to tax people with BTL's more. We own a BTL property (well, it was LTB, but same difference), and if the tax we were paying on that significantly increased, we'd just have to put the rent up to make ends meet though, so there's no simple solution.
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There was a very technical tax change in the last statement which will affect small BTL landlords. Add in the likelihood of interest rate rises down the road and anybody operating on thin margins had better get out of the business while there's still time. It's interesting that 2 successive changes have penalised small time landlords and rewarded larger property companies. There could actually be good reasons for that (some argue that they don't want thousands of part timers in the business) but it's also worth wondering how many of George's chums run property companies.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Ah I noticed that the short money change wasn't mentioned and saw that the press weren't up in arms about the nurses thing so assumed he'd buried that too.

I guess a more interesting question then is why aren't the newspapers more angry about the nurses thing?



There was a very technical tax change in the last statement which will affect small BTL landlords. Add in the likelihood of interest rate rises down the road and anybody operating on thin margins had better get out of the business while there's still time. It's interesting that 2 successive changes have penalised small time landlords and rewarded larger property companies. There could actually be good reasons for that (some argue that they don't want thousands of part timers in the business) but it's also worth wondering how many of George's chums run property companies.
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Only impact is to high earning landlords and since the property we let out is my wife's house, and she only works 2 days a week, the last tax change doesn't impact us thankfully. When we bought our house last year it was the most convenient way of doing it. LTB on the property we were in to fund the deposit on the new one. The changes both around stamp duty and the tax rate are bizarre in that it's only hitting people in the middle, since the very rich with no mortgages on their properties and those that own more than 15 properties appear to be exempt.

Like you say, wouldn't surprise me if half of the latter group turned out to be his mates.
 
Funding for energy efficiency schemes cut.

Department of transport funding cut

Funding for academies will be cut by £600m

Tampon tax stays but money to women's charities.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Only impact is to high earning landlords and since the property we let out is my wife's house, and she only works 2 days a week, the last tax change doesn't impact us thankfully.
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Ah OK. I know it looks like it hits standard rate tax payers. My guess is lots of smallish landlords will create property companies which will then pay somewhat less tax than they previously did (or at least less NI - that's a bit more flexible).
 
JonathanRyan said:
Ah OK. I know it looks like it hits standard rate tax payers. My guess is lots of smallish landlords will create property companies which will then pay somewhat less tax than they previously did (or at least less NI - that's a bit more flexible).
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You have to declare all the rent as income now, rather than deducting the interest as an allowable expense, so if you're on the margin of Basic and Higher the new rules might push you into the higher bracket then tax relief is just capped at 20%, so if you have a mortgage on the property and you're still basic rate tax payer, no change to your tax bill. If you're a higher rate tax payer, you'll only get 20% relief rather than the full 40% and if you have no mortgage on your rental properties, obviously no change.

Rent: £500 per month
Interest: £150 Per month

Current rules - Declare income of (£500 x 12) - (£150 x 12) = 4200
Tax = 20% of 4200 = £840
net = 4200 - 840 = £3360

New rules - Declare income of £500 x 12 = £6000
Tax on income = 6000 x 20% = £1200
Tax relief = (£150 x 12) x 20% = £360
Total Tax Due = £840
net = 6000 - 1800 - 840 = £3360
 
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Thanks - it looks so simple when you explain it :) I knew it was something to do with people near the boundaries (isn't it always?) but this makes it clear.

Also, I understand why your wife owns the house :D
 
JonathanRyan said:
Thanks - it looks so simple when you explain it :) I knew it was something to do with people near the boundaries (isn't it always?) but this makes it clear.

Also, I understand why your wife owns the house :D
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haha she already owned the house when we met, so in this instance, it's genuinely her property and not a tax avoidance thing :)

and yeah, if you were a 40% tax payer, it would now be:

Current rules - Declare income of (£500 x 12) - (£150 x 12) = 4200
Tax = 40% of 4200 = £1680
net = 4200 - 1680= £2520

New rules - Declare income of £500 x 12 = £6000
Tax on income = 6000 x 40% = £2400
Tax relief = (£150 x 12) x 20% = £360
Total Tax Due = £2040
net = 6000 - 1800 - 2040 = £2160
 
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Budgets twice a year bah. Just so they can shaft us twice as often as before. Btds.
 
chrism_scotland said:
Yeah not sure its actually a change, and certainly not the shock that most contractors were expecting yesterday.
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You mean the made up one about people becoming permanent employees after one month? Yeah, that would have been bad. I'm glad that it was so stupidly outrageous that they didn't try it. Almost like they threatened one thing so the actual changes didn't seem so bad.......
 
Much as I am against control and intervention there needs to be more action against btl. Sure, allow people 2 or 3 but the amount of new builds being snapped up by btl is making it even harder for people to get on the ladder. If I wanted to buy a 2 bed house around me I would probably need to be earning 50k plus which people in early 20s tend not to earn.
 
the shaft us 365 times a year tbh
 
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