Atheism And Kids

danny_bhoy

danny_bhoy

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It's something that I've feared coming for a while and it arrived during the school run on Friday.

First off, I'm an Atheist. Not saying that's right or wrong - if you believe in God, any God for that matter, then fill your boots. But it's not, and never has been, my bag.

I've got two kids and the eldest, who's five, came out of school on Friday talking about God and Jesus. Quite graphic stuff about Jesus being nailed to the cross and dying as it happens (didn't think they taught that kinda things in school any more but they must still be making reference to it.....either that or one of his classmates is a trainee priest).

It's come up in general conversation a few time over the weekend, as does most stuff he's done during the previous week so that's nothing unusual. My predicament is, do I just run with it and hope that he finds his own way as he gets older, or do I do I tell him what I believe to be the truth. When I've practised the 'truth' version over a few times in my head it does just seem kinda harsh but by agreeing with him I'm feeling like a bit of a hypocrite.

Wow - that a lot to digest for a Sunday afternoon eh! :)

Interesting to know which way people would go with this.
 
Take it easy. If you take religion out of the equation life tends to become pretty s*** in many different ways. You are clearly not in a position to 100% prove either way, so let them grow up and find their own truth.
 
My eldest is coming up to 4. I'll not be letting him get into anything like that at an early age and will explain to him my atheist views on it. I think it is important religions are studied but more for a historical context and to understand people's views but I would not tell my children these were facts as such, just stories (no offence to the religious out there).

If he decides when he is older he wants to follow a particular religion then so be it but he'll get no encouragement from me.
 
If it were anything other than atheism (ie another religion), you would probably have been making it a part of your child's life since long before they were at school, so I'd have no hesitation at all about explaining the absence of religious beliefs to my child.
He deserves a balanced view imo because you can be pretty sure that atheism wont be touched on in school.
 
When my wife was teaching young children she had to teach religion even though we are atheists.
She always told them that " some people believe that ... (insert any religious belief) " and then made sure that she added " however other people believe ... (insert any other religious belief) instead".
 
akr said:
My eldest is coming up to 4. I'll not be letting him get into anything like that at an early age and will explain to him my atheist views on it. I think it is important religions are studied but more for a historical context and to understand people's views but I would not tell my children these were facts as such, just stories (no offence to the religious out there).

If he decides when he is older he wants to follow a particular religion then so be it but he'll get no encouragement from me.
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Not disagreeing in the slightest but it just all seems kinda harsh.......I mean, when I try and form the words in my head it just seems like I'm either being a bit of a d*ck or telling him there's no Santa!
 
any religion should not be forced onto children. by all means teach them about the pros and cons and facts/fiction, but dont dress religion up for them.

let them decide when they reach an age that they can make a reasonable decision.

IMO.
 
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Suvv said:
When my wife was teaching young children she had to teach religion even though we are atheists.
She always told them that " some people believe that ... (insert any religious belief) " and then made sure that she added " however other people believe ... (insert any other religious belief) instead".
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That's reassuring Kev, I'd like to think that balanced approach was consistent across the board.
 
neil_g said:
any religion should not be forced onto children. by all means teach them about the pros and cons, but dont dress religion up for them.

let them decide when they reach an age that they can make a reasonable decision.

IMO.
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It kinda baffles me why it has to be taught at all, maybe in an historical context but even then if the parents of a child want that child to be religious then surely it should be up to them to instil that.
 
danny_bhoy said:
Not disagreeing in the slightest but it just all seems kinda harsh.......I mean, when I try and form the words in my head it just seems like I'm either being a bit of a d*ck or telling him there's no Santa!
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Probably easier for me to say now before it's come up! I guess ultimately everyone makes their own mind up. I think my parents left me to it, but never took me to church or any sort of religious education classes which worked. I remember asking my dad about God, and he just told me why he stopped believing.

The god / heaven question in reality I don't mind too much, it's more the specific religions themselves and what comes with them in terms of 'rules' you are meant to abide to I would not want him getting into.
 
neil_g said:
essentially this. as long as the facts are taught correctly.

im not keen for the whole hyms in assembly, activley celebrating religious holidays etc.
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Exactly, looking at it totally objectively I can see why they may need to know what religion is and how it works but it's all about how the fact are delivered.

Now that everyone lives in morbid fear of being non politically correct I'm very surprised that it's even brought up in schools tbh.
 
danny_bhoy said:
It kinda baffles me why it has to be taught at all, maybe in an historical context but even then if the parents of a child want that child to be religious then surely it should be up to them to instil that.
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A thousand times this.
 
akr said:
Probably easier for me to say now before it's come up! I guess ultimately everyone makes their own mind up. I think my parents left me to it, but never took me to church or any sort of religious education classes which worked. I remember asking my dad about God, and he just told me why he stopped believing.

The god / heaven question in reality I don't mind too much, it's more the specific religions themselves and what comes with them in terms of 'rules' you are meant to abide to I would not want him getting into.
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Don't get me started on the heaven thing. I dodged that bullet a few months ago when a friends dog died........on that occasion it was easier to just let him believe that it had sprouted little doggy-wings.
 
I was taught in a typical local primary school. We sang hymns in assembly and said the Lord's prayer and it never did me any har......oh hang on a mo, wrong thread.
Just kidding.

Of course I was brought up doing the above. I remember asking my mum what religion we were and she said C of E. I had no idea what it meant. We never went to church etc etc, and everything I had to do with religion was just by following by example. (Hence the school stuff).
As I've grown up I've become not atheist...but more anti-theist. Religion mostly just pees me off now.
I have a 15 yr old and a 10 yr old, and it's been a topic theyve covered through school (one of them through secondary school too).
I've always made my views clear and never forced an opinion onto them.

My 10 year old came home from school a few years ago, he must have been 5 or 6, telling me that the world was made by God and etc etc.
I explained that *some* people believe that, but I don't.
I personally believe that there is no God and that I believe in the scientific explanations of our origins.
I asked him whether he believes in God and while he said yes (the lesson was fresh in his mind), he also said "I think so".
He wasn't sure, so I explained that religion is a set of beliefs based on stories being passed down through history, and that it's just one way of looking at the world. Some believe, some don't. Nobody actually knows whether it's true or not.
I personally choose to believe that it's not true, based on evidence and fact.

I'm all for my children being taught that there are lots of different theories out there, but don't ever teach them that any religion is 'true'. They have both learned about multiple religions and what they all believe in and how they differ.
Schools should be completely impartial. Infact all areas of society should be completely impartial to religion. Fine, if you want to practise it in your own home then that's great. But don't force it upon society.
 
danny_bhoy said:
Don't get me started on the heaven thing. I dodged that bullet a few months ago when a friends dog died........on that occasion it was easier to just let him believe that it had sprouted little doggy-wings.
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:)
 
For sure your child will get every opportunity to learn the atheist view ... evolution etc is taught as fact from an early age and living in what is basically a non-Christian country this is possibly the only opportunity your children will get to hear any sort of alternative i.e. a 'Christian' message.
Of course you only have to examine most churches today to realise that it will be at best a distorted view, one that has little resemblance to the Bible or the message of Gods love and the love of Jesus Christ.
 
Marcel said:
My 10 year old came home from school a few years ago, he must have been 5 or 6, telling me that the world was made by God and etc etc.
I explained that *some* people believe that, but I don't.
I personally believe that there is no God and that I believe in the scientific explanations of our origins.
I asked him whether he believes in God and while he said yes (the lesson was fresh in his mind), he also said "I think so".
He wasn't sure, so I explained that religion is a set of beliefs based on stories being passed down through history, and that it's just one way of looking at the world. Some believe, some don't. Nobody actually knows whether it's true or not.
I personally choose to believe that it's not true, based on evidence and fact.
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That should be the pocket guide on how to deal with this situation. Next time it's brought up I'm going to tell him my views, but leave it open ended for him to decide. He's a bright kid so whichever way he decides is probably actually the right way :)
 
danny_bhoy said:
It kinda baffles me why it has to be taught at all, maybe in an historical context but even then if the parents of a child want that child to be religious then surely it should be up to them to instil that.
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:agree: 200%
 
danny_bhoy said:
This is true but, as far as I'm aware, the theory of evolution isn't taught as an alternative to religion as such.
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Evolution is an alternative to Creation, hence is by nature an alternative to the Christian message.
 
daugirdas said:
Take it easy. If you take religion out of the equation life tends to become pretty s*** in many different ways. You are clearly not in a position to 100% prove either way, so let them grow up and find their own truth.
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For once I actually agree with Daugirdas, it's exactly what I did, I am certainly agnostic with definite leanings to full blown aetheism, but talk to the kids sensibly about all the options and let them grow into their own thing. Mine are now grown up and I have one that is the same as me, and another that is now a baptised Christian, both very happy with their choices in life. I have very strong objections to parents that force their religious leanings on their children, and that goes just as much for aetheism as any actual religion. Let the child decide when they are old enough to make their own choice has always been my own personal feelings about it.
 
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gramps said:
Evolution is an alternative to Creation, hence is by nature an alternative to the Christian message.
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But I'd imagine in schools it's left to the kids to join those dots rather than them being shown as a side-by-side comparison. When you're as young as he is it'd be hard to make that connection without it being explained.

I'm just assuming that though.
 
Yv said:
For once I actually agree with Daugirdas, it's exactly what I did, I am certainly agnostic with definitely leanings to full blown aetheism, but talk to the kids sensibly about all the options and let them grow into their own thing. Mine are now grown up and I have one that is the same as me, and another that is now a baptised Christian, both very happy with their choices in life. I have very strong objections to parents that force their religious leanings on their children, and that goes just as much for aetheism as any actual religion. Let the child decide when they are old enough to make their own choice has always been my own personal feelings about it.
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You're right. And don't get me wrong, it's not like I'd disown him if he grew up to be an archbishop. I suppose there are lost of very happy, fulfilled religious folk as well.
 
danny_bhoy said:
This is true but, as far as I'm aware, the theory of evolution isn't taught as an alternative to religion as such.
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I've never heard of that either TBH,
I don't remember any of mine being taught evolution,
but they left school 10 years ago and things may have changed.
Years ago, when I was at school we were taught C of E type religion and
the Catholics were allowed to leave the class,
eventually they brought in a catholic person to cover that period for them.

I never taught mine anything to do with religion,
and let them make their own minds up.
The subject was rarely broached at home,
but when it was I gave them a couple of alternatives to think about.



BTW I love Jesus,
he was born I get presents,
he died I get chocolate,
(am I going straight to hell? )
 
danny_bhoy said:
But I'd imagine in schools it's left to the kids to join those dots rather than them being shown as a side-by-side comparison. When you're as young as he is it'd be hard to make that connection without it being explained.

I'm just assuming that though.
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You may be right but I think we underestimate just how much little minds are able to take in and understand as long as we don't try to overload them and just give them what is necessary to deal with their issue at the time.
TBH, if you can prove to him that there is no God then prove it to him but if you can't then let him find out the truth for himself (if he wants to) by giving him the opportunity to use an open and unshackled mind.
 
Cobra said:
I've never heard of that either TBH,
I don't remember any of mine being taught evolution,
but they left school 10 years ago and things may have changed.
Years ago, when I was at school we were taught C of E type religion and
the Catholics were allowed to leave the class,
eventually they brought in a catholic person to cover that period for them.

I never taught mine anything to do with religion,
and let them make their own minds up.
The subject was rarely broached at home,
but when it was I gave them a couple of alternatives to think about.



BTW I love Jesus,
he was born I get presents,
he died I get chocolate,
(am I going straight to hell? )
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Yeah, I'm only 30 now but even when I was at school we sang hymns and had morning prayer etc. Just occurred to me that even then I thought it was baloney but just went along with it to postpone classwork. Wow flashback - this is like therapy :)
 
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gramps said:
You may be right but I think we underestimate just how much little minds are able to take in and understand as long as we don't try to overload them and just give them what is necessary to deal with their issue at the time.
TBH, if you can prove to him that there is no God then prove it to him but if you can't then let him find out the truth for himself (if he wants to) by giving him the opportunity to use an open and unshackled mind.
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Very well put.
 
I might be wrong but some schools are based on Christianity and others are Catholic and I guess those morning prayers/assemblies are probably based on tradition more than anything. So, with that to mind, it sounds like it was an overzealous teacher at your child's school who got a little bit too carried away with the Jesus Christ thing while hosting the usual morning assembly/prayer?
I've never been christened nor confirmed but I got sent to Sunday school when I was a kid in the mid-70's. I remember being puzzled by the whole thing as I spent the afternoon sitting on a wooden floor along with a dozen other just-as bored looking kids in a damp dark hall listening to this vicar droning on about God as he glided around on a just-as-wooden platform. I just didn't "get it". It wasn't only until much later on in life that I worked out it was probably just a way to get me out of my parent's hair so that they could have their Sunday afternoon nookie.
I also got sent to Boy Scouts, which, that too, dripped full of religion, but I didn't last very long as that itchy uniform made my delicate artistic skin felt like it was on fire. I also didn't like the idea of camping out on a thistle-filled field and cows poo for no real reason other than because we can.
Anyway, all that were over 40 years ago and the only religion I'm into is the Star Trek Prime Directive. Well, it is a good religion as anything as it has it's own ideals and beliefs - and I guess that is the whole point of it.
 
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Ian D J said:
I might be wrong but some schools are based on Christianity and others are Catholic .
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Certainly around here the schools are Christianity orientated, Catholic schools are specific to that belief.
 
It seems a good idea to let them make their own minds up however who will give them all the facts, who are the people who influence them most, what do their friends believe etc etc. Most children go for the religion of their parents, if their parents are not religious then they are influenced by their teachers and their friends, the facts come later if at all. When so many adults have problems grasping what religions mean and which, if any to follow, is it fair to leave a 5 year old to decide?
One example of the complications is the story of the birth of Jesus, his parents had to go to Bethlehem from Nazareth and he was born in a stable there, according to Luke. Mathew however said that they lived in Bethlehem and only moved to Nazareth after Jesus was born. John's gospel says that Jesus's followers were surprised that he was not born in Bethlehem as the Old Testament states that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.
So you have 3 contradicting accounts all in the same religion!
In fact the star in the east, the virgin birth, the 3 kings, the miracles, the execution, the resurrection and the ascension are all in other religions that were already in existence in the Med. and the far east.
 
Catholicism is christianity btw lol
 
Suvv said:
One example of the complications is the story of the birth of Jesus, his parents had to go to Bethlehem from Nazareth and he was born in a stable there, according to Luke.
Mathew however said that they lived in Bethlehem and only moved to Nazareth after Jesus was born.
John's gospel says that Jesus's followers were surprised that he was not born in Bethlehem as the Old Testament states that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.
So you have 3 contradicting accounts all in the same religion!
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Please cite the references that confuse you. :)
 
viv1969 said:
Catholicism is christianity btw lol
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:D Goes to show how much I do know about religion.

In fact, if I am a kid all over again, I would think of Luke, John, Matthew and Mark as part of an upcoming boy band.
 
Ian D J said:
I might be wrong but some schools are based on Christianity and others are Catholic and I guess those morning prayers/assemblies are probably based on tradition more than anything.
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Both Catholics and 'others' (protestants, eastern/Russian orthodox etc) are Christians, though some have some practices that require a grounding in history to understand.

-

I'd suggest it's important to your son to treat the matter gently - explaining in a way that doesn't force agreement, but instead allows him to make up his mind will be more helpful to both of you. You already know from your own experience that religion at school inoculated you against Christianity, and he's likely exploring and trying to understand the truth through discussion with you. It is possible, of course, that he will come to different conclusions, either now or much later.
 
Suvv said:
One example of the complications is the story of the birth of Jesus, his parents had to go to Bethlehem from Nazareth and he was born in a stable there, according to Luke. Mathew however said that they lived in Bethlehem and only moved to Nazareth after Jesus was born. John's gospel says that Jesus's followers were surprised that he was not born in Bethlehem as the Old Testament states that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.
So you have 3 contradicting accounts all in the same religion!
In fact the star in the east, the virgin birth, the 3 kings, the miracles, the execution, the resurrection and the ascension are all in other religions that were already in existence in the Med. and the far east.
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It might be better to start a separate thread for this one.
 
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