At last London is taking dirty diesel seriously

Guess the value of my Audi is about to plummet further, better run it into the ground then [emoji23]

Which is pretty much all that's going to happen for the majority.

Most simply won't have cash laying around to buy a nice new car that meets the current requirements. And let's face it, they've u-turned on diesel who's to say they're not going to change the requirements again in a couple years time.
 
Which is pretty much all that's going to happen for the majority.

Most simply won't have cash laying around to buy a nice new car that meets the current requirements. And let's face it, they've u-turned on diesel who's to say they're not going to change the requirements again in a couple years time.
Cars meeting Euro 6 emissions have been around since 2014, there will be plenty of 5yr old cars around when the extra charge starts.
 
I predict a up turn in shoe sales as we will all be walking. That is until someone works out that exhales co2 when we do that

might get some of those fat f***s into shape then
 
but even some of the V8 engines have been replaced with a turbocharged V6.

And that is key. A turbo V6 is hardly the small and painfully slow 3 cylinder moped engine lost in a petrol golf buggy rebadged as a compact car. Hell, we would happily drive turbo V6s any day. The V8s are a bit too noisy to be quite honest.
 
Still going to cost the average person money. Not everyone can afford to change their car at the whim of changing government policy.
They still have another two years before the charge is enforced. A good amount of time to prepare. Their cars will require replacing at some point and that is just for diesel cars. Euro 4 petrol cars have been around considerably longer.
Especially those who were advised to buy diesels by the government.
Advised or just took advantage of the cheap or non existent VED because it was based on C02 emissions. If people are still driving the same diesel cars since 2001 when it was introduced, it's probably about time they bought a newer car anyway.
 
Advised or just took advantage of the cheap or non existent VED because it was based on C02 emissions.
I'm sure many were trying to do the right thing at the time. But yes, let's hope most will use the situation to change over. The advice was changed quite a while ago. So this is not much of a surprise.
 
Be very careful about commenting on peoples car ownership and buying preferences. Implying that someones car choice is wrong because they should "buy a better car" (on a different but related thread) or "it's about time they bought a new car" suggests a degree of arrogance/ignorance about what the majority can afford. Not everyone can afford (or even wants) a brand new £30k VAG/BMW in council white on 18" rims and paid for on the never-never-plan (PCP).

Advised or just took advantage of the cheap or non existent VED because it was based on C02 emissions
A combination of diesel car reputation for longevity, VED, real life mpg, and fuel duty made diesel an attractive choice for many buyers.

If people are still driving the same diesel cars since 2001 when it was introduced, it's probably about time they bought a newer car anyway.
If someones car buying pattern is to buy at three years old and run for at least five, then they could still be driving a 2013 Euro5 in 2021. It's not an unusual pattern of ownership - it's the buying pattern that maintains the GVC of the never-never car buyers.
 
Be very careful about commenting on peoples car ownership and buying preferences. Implying that someones car choice is wrong because they should "buy a better car" (on a different but related thread) or "it's about time they bought a new car" suggests a degree of arrogance/ignorance about what the majority can afford. Not everyone can afford (or even wants) a brand new £30k VAG/BMW in council white on 18" rims and paid for on the never-never-plan (PCP).


A combination of diesel car reputation for longevity, VED, real life mpg, and fuel duty made diesel an attractive choice for many buyers.


If someones car buying pattern is to buy at three years old and run for at least five, then they could still be driving a 2013 Euro5 in 2021. It's not an unusual pattern of ownership - it's the buying pattern that maintains the GVC of the never-never car buyers.
PCP isn't never-never. You can buy the car at the end of the term, hand it back (unadvisable as you will get nothing back) sell it and pay off the GMFV, or trade it in for another car, the equity going towards the deposit on the next car, unlike leasing where you can never actually own the car.
The longevity of a diesel car is the exact same as a petrol car, it's not a reputation it's a rumour, just like the rumour that diesels are more expensive to service than a petrol or visa versa.
As I keep pointing out, no-one has to buy a brand new car nor do they have to spend 30K, you can buy new cars from below £10k and you can buy nearly new or older for less still. PCP deals are also available on 2nd hand cars, getting into a newer car can be done quite cheaply even on your 3yr old car 5yr ownership plan.
 
If deisel was dirty how come my wifes Honda Civic diesel 1.6ltr has zero road tax ? it is less polluting than most petrol cars.

Another case of scare mongering by officials with nothing better to do
 
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If deisel was dirty how come my wifes Honda Civic diesel 1.6ltr has zero road tax ? it is less polluting than most petrol cars.

Another case of scare mongering by officials with nothing better to do
That's CO2, this is about NOX particulates, of which diesel is worse than petrol. It's not scaremongering at all.
 
PCP isn't never-never. You can buy the car at the end of the term, hand it back (unadvisable as you will get nothing back) sell it and pay off the GMFV, or trade it in for another car, the equity going towards the deposit on the next car, unlike leasing where you can never actually own the car.
PCP is never-never, it's hire purchase without the ownership until you pay the final amount!
 
PCP is never-never, it's hire purchase without the ownership until you pay the final amount!
Even on HP you don't own the car until the last payment is made, it remains the property of the finance company until such time.
Plus which, a lot of dealers offer big discounts if you finance the car, then just pay it all off the following month and you may well have saved yourself a few grand.
 
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Even on HP you don't own the car until the last payment is made, it remains the property of the finance company until such time.
Plus which, a lot of dealers offer big discounts if you finance the car, then just pay it all off the following month and you may well have saved yourself a few grand.
That's my point. There's no difference between HP and PCP, they're both on the never-never but HP sounds a bit "council".

Yes you can pay it off within a couple of months and benefit from the dealer discounts, but I wonder how many VAG-financed cars this happens with? And I wonder what percentage PCP drivers realise they're paying interest on the GFV over the course of the deal.. (as a crude measure of how many understand the financing rather than just look at the monthly cost).
 
That's my point. There's no difference between HP and PCP, they're both on the never-never but HP sounds a bit "council".

Yes you can pay it off within a couple of months and benefit from the dealer discounts, but I wonder how many VAG-financed cars this happens with? And I wonder what percentage PCP drivers realise they're paying interest on the GFV over the course of the deal.. (as a crude measure of how many understand the financing rather than just look at the monthly cost).
They should realise it, it's all there in black and white in the paperwork and examples of finance. There are 0% finance deals around so they won't have to pay interest on any of it.
 
PCP isn't never-never. You can buy the car at the end of the term, hand it back (unadvisable as you will get nothing back) sell it and pay off the GMFV, or trade it in for another car, the equity going towards the deposit on the next car, unlike leasing where you can never actually own the car.
The longevity of a diesel car is the exact same as a petrol car, it's not a reputation it's a rumour, just like the rumour that diesels are more expensive to service than a petrol or visa versa.
As I keep pointing out, no-one has to buy a brand new car nor do they have to spend 30K, you can buy new cars from below £10k and you can buy nearly new or older for less still. PCP deals are also available on 2nd hand cars, getting into a newer car can be done quite cheaply even on your 3yr old car 5yr ownership plan.

So what about those that are running cars costing £1k-£3k?
 
So what about those that are running cars costing £1k-£3k?
Beneath contempt, obviously. Just cluttering up the roads for the real drivers..

Alt_WackyRacesPeterPerfect11.jpg
 
You can buy euro 4 petrol cars for less.

And these pollute a lot of CO2, petrol vapour and leave a massive hole in the wallet. What a stupid idea
 
And these pollute a lot of CO2, petrol vapour and leave a massive hole in the wallet. What a stupid idea
Never understood the whole CO2 thing, as trees and plants turn it into oxygen, but you can still get low CO2 emission petrol engines. Petrol vapour, not heard that one, engines from 80's and 90's maybe if poorly maintained and you can smell the petrol in their exhaust fumes (my philosophy is if you can't afford to maintain a car, you shouldn't own one or park it up and don't use it until you can) but euro 4 shouldn't be emitting petrol vapour, fuel injection systems were even more refined by then. Leave a large hole in the wallet, why? A diesel won't be much more, if anymore economical driving around town or in a city.
 
And these pollute a lot of CO2, petrol vapour and leave a massive hole in the wallet. What a stupid idea
CO2 = Fuel consumption, so a lot depends on how the vehicle is driven. A small gasoline engine can be driven in an efficient way minimising their CO2 contribution. The individual driver has a huge influence on fuel economy, running costs and therefore CO2 emissions.

Gasoline cars have been equipped with carbon canister vapour (VOC) traps for years to capture, though there is a release of vapour when the fuel tank is filled. Vapour recovery systems at the pump were developed, but were not widely adopted. This was in part due to the trend towards diesel cars which don't release VOCs.

If by petrol vapour, you mean unburned hydrocarbons (uHC). Then a Euro4 gasoline car will have fuel injection and a pretty good exhaust after treatment system (3-way catalyst) that will do a pretty good job of mopping up uHC, CO and NOx emissions.

There are many stupid ideas. Indicating that Euro4 gasoline vehicles are a potential transport solution for people that cannot afford to go with Euro6 diesel, isn't one of them IMHO.
 
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Never understood the whole CO2 thing, as trees and plants turn it into oxygen, but you can still get low CO2 emission petrol engines.
Because "Fossil fuel burning has produced about three-quarters of the increase in CO2 from human activity over the past 20 years. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

"Here’s how a typical barrel of US oil was broken down in 2014:
◾48.3% gas for cars
◾31.6% heating oil and diesel fuels
◾9.8% jet fuel (kerosene)"
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_pct_dc_nus_pct_a.htm
 
Never understood the whole CO2 thing, as trees and plants turn it into oxygen
Not fast enough. There's a finite conversion capacity and we're burning carbon reserves orders of magnitude faster than the environment can capture it.

Left to its own devices nature will capture the carbon dioxide we're releasing eventually, but it can't keep up with the current rate of emission.


However the problem being discussed in relation to diesel is NOx, and CO2 and NOx are very different pollutants. CO2 is a global pollutant with few local and immediate health issues, NOx is primarily a local pollutant with very immediate health issues.
 
What cars are actually affected? I am looking for a used car now, probably petrol but there is a nice freelander for sale locally although diesel and would be a 55 plate.
 
What cars are actually affected? I am looking for a used car now, probably petrol but there is a nice freelander for sale locally although diesel and would be a 55 plate.
Euro 4 petrol cars are ok which is from January 2005 and later. For diesel you are looking at Euro 6 and want anything from September 2014 and later.
 
Euro 4 petrol cars are ok which is from January 2005 and later. For diesel you are looking at Euro 6 and want anything from September 2014 and later.

Thanks, so any 05 plate (or newer) diesel will be fine? At the risk of asking a stupid question, what chance is there that in a couple of years time they extend this to include the sort of car I may be getting?
 
Thanks, so any 05 plate (or newer) diesel will be fine? At the risk of asking a stupid question, what chance is there that in a couple of years time they extend this to include the sort of car I may be getting?
No, it's any 2005 petrol onwards 05 plate. Diesel is September 2014 onwards, so anything with a 64 plate and later.
 
No, it's any 2005 petrol onwards 05 plate. Diesel is September 2014 onwards, so anything with a 64 plate and later.

Oh, wow, that is a hell of a lot of cars, so rules out any diesel purchase for me then!!! So basically the millions of diesels older than 2014 are subject to huge fees in a couple of years?
 
Oh, wow, that is a hell of a lot of cars, so rules out any diesel purchase for me then!!! So basically the millions of diesels older than 2014 are subject to huge fees in a couple of years?
Only if they enter any of the yet to be confirmed and still all very conjectural ultra low emission zones.
 
Oh, wow, that is a hell of a lot of cars, so rules out any diesel purchase for me then!!! So basically the millions of diesels older than 2014 are subject to huge fees in a couple of years?
If you intend driving in London or other cities, yes. When the initial emissions zone was started around London, vehicles could have after market emissions filters fitted to the exhaust system. I'm not sure if something similar could be done again.
 
Only if they enter any of the yet to be confirmed and still all very conjectural ultra low emission zones.

But enough doubt for me to only look at petrol cars - if my local town cambridge does this (and as they are anti car they will) then it will be a pain and expensive. Shame, as typically a few of the nice cars I am seeing are.... diesel!!!
 
If you intend driving in London or other cities, yes. When the initial emissions zone was started around London, vehicles could have after market emissions filters fitted to the exhaust system. I'm not sure if something similar could be done again.
Fitting de-NOx aftertreatment and re-mapping EGR might be technically possible for some pre Euro 6 diesels, but unlikely to be viable/cost-effective in my view.
 
What ever they say today will be changed tomorrow. It just a tax on the motorist

+1 More b******t from the eurocrats. When I was at school they told us oil would run out in 10, max 15 years. Look at the market now. Then they told us polar bears can't swim, that Brexit will bankrupt us all, and of course the madame president Hillary, and more and more tosh. This is more of the same.
 
But enough doubt for me to only look at petrol cars - if my local town cambridge does this (and as they are anti car they will) then it will be a pain and expensive. Shame, as typically a few of the nice cars I am seeing are.... diesel!!!

Well they are anti car, so they are going to ban EVERYTHING. Today diesel, tomorrow petrol. You get the idea. Vote the leftist saboteurs out of the town hall and openly oppose them. I'd be looking to purchase a stinky V8 diesel or tracktor and drive it round the townhall as they commute to work.
 
Never understood the whole CO2 thing, as trees and plants turn it into oxygen, but you can still get low CO2 emission petrol engines. Petrol vapour, not heard that one, engines from 80's and 90's maybe if poorly maintained and you can smell the petrol in their exhaust fumes (my philosophy is if you can't afford to maintain a car, you shouldn't own one or park it up and don't use it until you can) but euro 4 shouldn't be emitting petrol vapour, fuel injection systems were even more refined by then. Leave a large hole in the wallet, why? A diesel won't be much more, if anymore economical driving around town or in a city.

You simply don't get the idea a lot of us drive 100 or more miles a day and only small fraction of those are in a city. Understood?

So now you will also tell us that CO2 doesn't cause climate warming, but clearly the same morons pushing this tax would like to crucify you for that. You can't be on both camps. You have to pick one. I don't care much about CO2, as long as we preserve and plant more forests (but we are NOT). However, the CO2 rating undeniably has a huge effect on the tax I pay for my cars. That is a fact. Petrol engine with similar torque will not only eat galons of petrol but cost probably £500 VED, and I don't care '17 plate cars will have different tax once they age. I am not in the market for them.

Whatever catalysts they use for petrol engines, they do only a half-decent job. In the countryside I can smell toxic VOCs even from the most recent petrol cars. That is what really causes climate warming 20-100x better.
 
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You simply don't get the idea a lot of us drive 100 or more miles a day and only small fraction of those are in a city. Understood?
Get a Focus ST, I managed 38mpg on Sunday including sitting in a queue waiting to get out of Silverstone for 10-15 minutes, and nailing it to get up to speed every time the opportunity arose.
That's petrol by the way not the diesel variant and the VED is £200.
Whatever you are smelling in the countryside isn't petrol vapour, It's quite apt that you are in the countryside, because I reckon that is b******t. ;)
 
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