At last London is taking dirty diesel seriously

dizidav said:
A good question to ask, is why the construction industry have not been mentioned, Deisel generators, dump trucks, pumps, lifts, etc., nobody seems worried about them, not many are even fitted with a proper exhaust.
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mentioned in the previous thread on the subject, or maybe the one before that..
 
Byker28i said:
To be honest I think these people are overthinking the need for a car. I ride a motorbike daily for my commute. Good mpg, less traffic congestion, less damage to the roads... ;) :D
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Keep getting the Rocket III "want"! Fewer MPG than my current car and probably a higher point loading on the road. Not quite as wide as a normal car though. :D
 
Nod said:
Keep getting the Rocket III "want"! Fewer MPG than my current car and probably a higher point loading on the road. Not quite as wide as a normal car though. :D
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Not far off especially if the tourer, although the roadster has some good classic lines. An interesting choice, better than the usual Harley mid life crisis :D
 
Harleys are too small - and I had custody of one 25 or so years ago. (88" Shovel lowrider once featured in BSH.) Way more bike than I really need but the idea of a 2.3 litre bike rather appeals!
 
Byker28i said:
To be honest I think these people are overthinking the need for a car. I ride a motorbike daily for my commute. Good mpg, less traffic congestion, less damage to the roads... ;) :D
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Which is all well and good, until you hear SMDSY ... it was the reason I gave up riding bikes, 4 times in 3 weeks :(
 
nilagin said:
What do you think people used to tow caravans or actually powered motorhomes before diesel engines became so popular? That's right petrol. Much easier today as Turbo charged petrol engines still produce plenty of torque. Mind you think of all the reduced congestion with no caravans on the roads. Sounds like a win win situation to me.
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Had never thought of that. No caravans. Gets my vote!!!
 
Cobra said:
Its ok once they have got rid of all the diesels, then they will find a reason why petrol engines are killing the other half of the population that diesel didn't kill.
;)
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This. We must fight this any way we can. The NI tax hike for self employed got defeated, this should follow the same path.

Once petrol is out, and they openly admit we are supposed to be using electric vehicles only, then it will be driverless taxis only, you bet you will be walking or using influenza and zika infested buses.

I can't believe there are loonies cheering this. Don't you understand you will suffer as well? If we are about to clean up seriously, the proper way to go is to improve and incentivise electric vehicles AS WELL as the ELECTRICITY generation, not to punish 80% of population for the crimes they didn't commit.

I do a lot of miles, so that would be end of my business, end of my career. I may as well then become another nasty bureaucrat that intentionally makes your life truly miserable. Be warned.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
This. We must fight this any way we can. The NI tax hike for self employed got defeated, this should follow the same path.

Once petrol is out, and they openly admit we are supposed to be using electric vehicles only, then it will be driverless taxis only, you bet you will be walking or using influenza and zika infested buses.

I can't believe there are loonies cheering this. Don't you understand you will suffer as well? If we are about to clean up seriously, the proper way to go is to improve and incentivise electric vehicles AS WELL as the ELECTRICITY generation, not to punish 80% of population for the crimes they didn't commit.

I do a lot of miles, so that would be end of my business, end of my career. I may as well then become another nasty bureaucrat that intentionally makes your life truly miserable. Be warned.
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80%, really? It's only pre euro6 diesels and pre euro 4 petrols which will be penalised as well as only cities, I doubt it will even be anywhere near 30% of the population.
End of your career, I doubt it, plenty of economical petrol cars out there, apart from which your fuelling costs should be tax deductible, so it won't cost you a penny,
 
nilagin said:
80%, really? It's only pre euro6 diesels and pre euro 4 petrols which will be penalised as well as only cities, I doubt it will even be anywhere near 30% of the population.
End of your career, I doubt it, plenty of economical petrol cars out there, apart from which your fuelling costs should be tax deductible, so it won't cost you a penny,
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whats the betting you live either dan-sarf or in a urban environment ,best described by those that NEED these long range diesels as LOOPY LA-LA LAND :wave::wave::wave::wave:
 
the black fox said:
whats the betting you live either dan-sarf or in a urban environment ,best described by those that NEED these long range diesels as LOOPY LA-LA LAND :wave::wave::wave::wave:
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As usual LLP has made an over exaggerated statement. What has where I live got to do with that. The fact that I live about 1/2 a mile inside the M25 with the countryside on my back doorstep has nothing to do with it at all. If he can afford to buy a 6yr old BMW X5 as he intimated is his plan in 6yrs time so he doesn't have to pay the newly increased VED, he can afford to buy an economical petrol engine car with little to no bearing on his business.
 
nilagin said:
and I am confused by this statement


.
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I'm confused by all of it , instead of letting traffic flow we'll put lights in at every roundabout and junction so everybody is stop start all day, old black cabs are fine to carry on chucking all sorts of crap out but somebody driving a well serviced euro 5 van gets shafted but they can still drive it in london as long as they give us money because money makes everything OK
 
nilagin said:
80%, really? It's only pre euro6 diesels and pre euro 4 petrols which will be penalised as well as only cities, I doubt it will even be anywhere near 30% of the population.
End of your career, I doubt it, plenty of economical petrol cars out there, apart from which your fuelling costs should be tax deductible, so it won't cost you a penny,
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I don't have £35000 to buy your brand new Ford you are so keen to sell to everyone here. I also can't afford 2X fuel costs. When your min mileage a week is a few hundred it really adds up, and no - it is still the same rate for tax deductions.

I have a very nice diesel Passat that cost me to buy and sort out and I have no f*****g intention to take it as a loss and run over to Ford dealership.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
I don't have £35000 to buy your brand new Ford you are so keen to sell to everyone here. I also can't afford 2X fuel costs. When your min mileage a week is a few hundred it really adds up, and no - it is still the same rate for tax deductions.

I have a very nice diesel Passat that cost me to buy and sort out and I have no f*****g intention to take it as a loss and run over to Ford dealership.
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I never said you had to buy a Ford and I certainly never said everyone had to go and buy an RS, In the other thread, I wrote that the new VED changes work out well for the RS and the Mustang for that matter. I said there are plenty of economical petrol engine cars that you could buy. A minimum of a few hundred miles a week isn't a lot of mileage and your fuelling costs aren't going to double, you would be needing an extra £10-20 a week extra at best at current fuel prices. This charge isn't going to happen for another two years anyway, if it happens at all. There are plenty of changes that can happen in 2 years. Does your business model allow for any of that?
Well done for buying a Passat. Have VW fixed the emissions for you yet? Are you seeking compensation for them lying to you?
 
My Skoda Yeti 2.0L tdi diesel averages 60mpg (mostly rural & motoway) costs me £30.00 a year to tax and conforming to the latest Euro 6 emissions standard is exempt from any diesel tax. :) I am a diesel fan.
 
badlywornroy said:
My Skoda Yeti 2.0L tdi diesel averages 60mpg (mostly rural & motoway) costs me £30.00 a year to tax and conforming to the latest Euro 6 emissions standard is exempt from any diesel tax. :) I am a diesel fan.
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very true but as from 1st april how much will that car cost in VED?
 
nilagin said:
I never said you had to buy a Ford and I certainly never said everyone had to go and buy an RS, In the other thread, I wrote that the new VED changes work out well for the RS and the Mustang for that matter. I said there are plenty of economical petrol engine cars that you could buy. A minimum of a few hundred miles a week isn't a lot of mileage and your fuelling costs aren't going to double, you would be needing an extra £10-20 a week extra at best at current fuel prices. This charge isn't going to happen for another two years anyway, if it happens at all. There are plenty of changes that can happen in 2 years. Does your business model allow for any of that?
Well done for buying a Passat. Have VW fixed the emissions for you yet? Are you seeking compensation for them lying to you?
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Regardless of what you are saying I don't have £35000 for a similar new car. I don't have it. OK? If I did I would buy Mitsubishi PHEV purely because it means very cheap shorter journeys, but I don't. Frankly there is no other decent, large and comfortable "alternative" fuel vehicle I am aware of.

I am very happy with the Passat and will happily buy another (used) one. Or maybe a Tiguan or Audi A6. They are the best what I can afford. I am easily getting 48-55mpg in a huge and comfy car that is also very fast when it needs to be. What's not to like other than this made up scandal?
I tried Mondeo and found it DREADFUL in comparison.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
I am very happy with the Passat and will happily buy another (used) one. Or maybe a Tiguan or Audi A6. They are the best what I can afford. I am easily getting 48-55mpg in a huge and comfy car that is also very fast when it needs to be. What's not to like other than this made up scandal?
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I easily averaged 60mpg in my old Mondeo ST TDCi so what you are getting is not that great, Hell I can average over 40mpg in my petrol Focus ST without trying too hard, like I say there are plenty of economical petrol cars out there and as they only have to conform to Euro 4, that encompasses cars from the last 10 years or more.
You can thank the manufacturers of your Passat for this "made up scandal", if they had done things properly and not cheated the emissions, conning governments out of VED as well as conning their customers around the world, then there's every chance none of this would have happened.
 
nilagin said:
I easily averaged 60mpg in my old Mondeo ST TDCi so what you are getting is not that great, Hell I can average over 40mpg in my petrol Focus ST without trying too hard, like I say there are plenty of economical petrol cars out there and as they only have to conform to Euro 4, that encompasses cars from the last 10 years or more.
You can thank the manufacturers of your Passat for this "made up scandal", if they had done things properly and not cheated the emissions, conning governments out of VED as well as conning their customers around the world, then there's every chance none of this would have happened.
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Unlike your Mondeo my passat has very good visibility, is comfortable and most importantly comes with excellent DSG auto box (just guessing yours is the painful manual). I dread to think how uncomfortable and small the Focus would be in comparison. That is all.

I'm not defending the stupid execs who made excuses to use dumb solutions and cheating. In the EU their cars still meet all standards. The story is quite different in the US. Sadly our sensationalist politicians decided to use this to screw so many people over.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Unlike your Mondeo my passat has very good visibility, is comfortable and most importantly comes with excellent DSG auto box (just guessing yours is the painful manual). I dread to think how uncomfortable and small the Focus would be in comparison. That is all.

I'm not defending the stupid execs who made excuses to use dumb solutions and cheating. In the EU their cars still meet all standards. The story is quite different in the US. Sadly our sensationalist politicians decided to use this to screw so many people over.
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Visibility in the Mondeo was perfectly fine. Recaro seats perfectly comfortable and a smooth ride even on lowered sports suspension. The Focus is by no means cramped. I have a mate at 6' 2" a rugby player and powerlifter he is by no means a small bloke and he doesn't find his Focus cramped either. There's nothing in the least bit painful about a manual gearbox.

With 9 million of the 11 million VW' s with the cheat software being in Europe I can't see how they can meet the standard in other countries when the system only works under test conditions.
 
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nilagin said:
Visibility in the Mondeo was perfectly fine. Recaro seats perfectly comfortable and a smooth ride even on lowered sports suspension. The Focus is by no means cramped. I have a mate at 6' 2" a rugby player and powerlifter he is by no means a small bloke and he doesn't find his Focus cramped either. There's nothing in the least bit painful about a manual gearbox.
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Probably horses for courses. I thought the mondo estate a good car but too big and visibility was poor for me and my wife, possibly as we are short so have the seat forward. For the same reason I hate vectras as the huge a pillars are right in my line of sight at junctions, and the rounded rear window is awful for visibility.

Says me with a sports car with a letterbox for a windscreen :D
 
Byker28i said:
Probably horses for courses. I thought the mondo estate a good car but too big and visibility was poor for me and my wife, possibly as we are short so have the seat forward. For the same reason I hate vectras as the huge a pillars are right in my line of sight at junctions, and the rounded rear window is awful for visibility.

Says me with a sports car with a letterbox for a windscreen :D
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I don't exactly sit high up in a car. Seat base will be as low as possible on the motor and the backrest reclined at such an angle people figure I have been sleeping in the car.
 
nilagin said:
I don't exactly sit high up in a car. Seat base will be as low as possible on the motor and the backrest reclined at such an angle people figure I have been sleeping in the car.
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To be fair I did closely look into Mondeo estate and other before buying a VW. The bonnet is raised significantly higher in Mondoe and it is really obstructing visibility on the left side of the vehicle - that means massive pain on terrible B roads, hard manoeuvring through crap surfaces and scary fast cornering on narrow twisty roads. It is an OK Motorway and A road car, but no more than that. Rear visibility OK, but nothing to write home about. A VW is PERFECT there for me.

I had some time in Kuga ('15) as well. The incredibly terrible manual box, many things straight out of Transit van, lack of refinement, and distinct lack of that critical overtaking power... mpg was OK. They better have made a massive improvement with the facelift. The exterior design is finally good for an SUV. It leaves me wondering if it is less "cheap" inside.

Don't get me even started on manuals. If you like f*****g around with the stick and clutch pedal through the bends and in slow traffic then good on you. Like most of non-European civilised world I firmly reject the stick.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Don't get me even started on manuals. If you like f*****g around with the stick and clutch pedal through the bends and in slow traffic then good on you. Like most of non-European civilised world I firmly reject the stick.
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Personally I like manual, but the new dsg and semi auto's, 8 speed boxes are pretty good.
 
I would imagine as the traffic gets more and more congested then auto will / maybe the way to go in future but for now, for me,
there is nothing like a manual gearbox for making fast progress around and through the non-motorway roads.
A quick double de-clutch or a tad of "Toe and heel" and for the more experienced of us, no need to touch the clutch once you have the engine "on song"
All adds to the fun :thumbs:
 
Cobra said:
I would imagine as the traffic gets more and more congested then auto will / maybe the way to go in future but for now, for me,
there is nothing like a manual gearbox for making fast progress around and through the non-motorway roads.
A quick double de-clutch or a tad of "Toe and heel" and for the more experienced of us, no need to touch the clutch once you have the engine "on song"
All adds to the fun (y)
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I don't even mind a manual in traffic. Can't think of a time I don't like it to be honest. If I'm feeling lazy and don't want to keep moving the gear stick, the car is more than capable of using 1st 2nd and 6th and very rarely a need to change down for bends either, the engine and gearing is that flexible, not to mention the grip from the tyres.(y)
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Don't get me even started on manuals. If you like f*****g around with the stick and clutch pedal through the bends and in slow traffic then good on you. Like most of non-European civilised world I firmly reject the stick.
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Wut?

My personal car is a VAG 6spd manual and work car is a VAG 6spd dsg. Wouldn't say one is "better" than the other, auto is sometimes more convenient if you're having a cba day. Still much prefer manual, auto doesn't get it right 100% of the time imo.

Personal preference..
 
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The big problem with a lot of this is that the cars are built and calibrated to pass an emissions test conducted using a specific methodology and in accordance with the prevailing emissions regulations. Then various worthy bodies are taking said cars out on the road with additional test equipment and technician to operate this (all additional weight), driving a different driving cycle in uncontrolled, variable conditions all of which put different demands on the engine than the standard test. Hey presto! The 'real world' emissions are higher than they they are in the lab.

What should have happened a long time ago is that all diesel cars should have been equipped with de-NOx after treatment systems (AddBlue and SCR) in addition to particulate traps. With Euro 6 regulations, this is pretty much what they have. Further, the emissions testing protocol should have been made to be more realistic and as I understand it, the motor industry has been seeking this for years. The problem is with making the testing more realistic is that the emissions limits have to be raised as they are almost impossible to hit over the full operating range of the engine. Meanwhile the air quality models have all been based on the regulated figures.

Meanwhile, there is a lot of big politics going on with road transport, particularly in urban areas. There is a political desire to have more electric vehicles, but while everyone is driving around in diesel and gasoline cars, it's hard to justify the investment in EV infrastructure. Let's face it, there is only just enough capacity in the electrical grid as it is without introducing a whole load of extra demand to keep EVs on the road. It's bad enough coping with the demand of a few hundred thousand kettles being switched on when the half-time whistle blows. In terms of moving away from ICe vehicles, diesel is an easy target as it is more difficult to deal with the NOx they produce. As for particulate, under Euro 6, diesel and gasoline vehicles have the same limits.

I reckon there is a LOT of misinformation around on this issue.

In short, it's all a mess.
 
GeeJay57 said:
Let's face it, there is only just enough capacity in the electrical grid as it is without introducing a whole load of extra demand to keep EVs on the road. It's bad enough coping with the demand of a few hundred thousand kettles being switched on when the half-time whistle blows.
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While it is true the grid is currently not equipped to deal with everyone switching to EV, but EV is also the solution to this problem.

"smart" charging is the solution. You plug in your EV at night, and tell it you want 80% charge by tomorrow morning. Then when there's excess on the grid, even in milliseconds, the car can charge itself. When there's heavy demand on the grid, the car can sell small amount of electricity back, thousands of EV can easily help balance the grid. After 2020, when everyone has smart meters, electricity can be sold a different price every milliseconds. With the right incentive (such as double price of electricity during high demand, and that price is paid to EV/battery owners who are helping to balance the grid) the current grid infrastructure is adequate for the EV world.
 
So we should all buy a 1.2 Fiat 500 and be done with it then?

Pretty sure my 2.5 BMW petrol fails to meet the criteria but luckily I don't drive into London.

If they bring it into smaller towns/cities it may force me to sell it......and buy a newer V8.....as long as it meets the requirements obviously.

Call me selfish but I have no interest in driving a piddly engined petrol or an electric car.
 
Dave1 said:
Filled it out, said they should crucify diesel drivers and double any proposed diesel taxes :banana::banana::banana:

:exit:
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Know a lot about this then do you?
 
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