Are Canon losing their way in the DSLR market?

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Are Canon losing their way in the DSLR market?

It’s just while their competitors are forging ahead and releasing dslr’s with better and better sensors for example NIkon's D800 and D7100 are better products than the Canon equivalents.

Canon’s recent DSLR releases when compared to Nikon's have been a bit of a damp squid as Canon has chosen to equip their last SEVEN new DSLRS (550D,
600D, 650D, 700D, 100D, 7D, and 60D) with the very same 18MP sensor.

It seems as if Canon have bought in a job lot of these 18MP sensors and will not release a camera with a new sensor until they’ve shifted the all they bought.

While canon are hesitating in developing new sensors for their new range of cameras the likes of Nikon are enjoying the extra sales that come from being proactive in bringing newer better technology to customers.

Although I use Canon at the moment I have no loyalty to them consequently if money was no object I would change to Nikon without hesitation, they are at the moment the more progressive camera manufacturer.
 
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The 800 is in the same bracket as the 5D3 not the models you mentioned above. So IMHO your comparison does not hold water.
 
The Canons you have listed are crop sensors where as the d800 is full frame?
The 1DX would be a better comparison.
 
I agree. I think Canon need a new sensor now. All they are doing is tweaking a tired 18Mpix sensor. Sony are pulling ahead by a country mile.

Those who are pointing out the difference between ff and crop are missing the point. Canon are missing dynamic range from their sensors at low ISOs.
 
arad85 said:
I agree. I think Canon need a new sensor now. All they are doing is tweaking a tired 18Mpix sensor. Sony are pulling ahead by a country mile.

Those who are pointing out the difference between ff and crop are missing the point. Canon are missing dynamic range from their sensors at low ISOs.
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Umm the op is still comparing crop to a ff.
 
Not sure it will bother Canon until they are knocked from the top spot. It's sales that count after all ;) The full frame models have slightly inferior sensors than those from Nikon, but the bodies are excellent and Canon have spent a lot of money on new lenses recently. I agree about the croppers, but people are still buying them in their droves...
 
redsnappa said:
It’s just while their competitors are forging ahead and releasing dslr’s with better and better sensors for example NIkon's D800 and D7100 are better products than the Canon equivalents.
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Depends how you look at it.
The D800 compares to the 5D3. Now I did some careful research before I went for the 5D3 and the cameras both have their strong points. Neither is better than the other when viewed objectively.

As for the D7100 - well yes. It is going to be better than the canon equivalent as the canon was released quite some time ago. Once Canon do something about the 7D you will be in a better position to make an assessment. Tech wise, compare the 7D to the D7000

Canon’s recent DSLR releases when compared to Nikon's have been a bit of a damp squid as Canon has chosen to equip their last SEVEN new DSLRS (550D,
600D, 650D, 700D, 100D, 7D, and 60D) with the very same 18MP sensor.

It seems as if Canon have bought in a job lot of these 18MP sensors and will not release a camera with a new sensor until they’ve shifted the all they bought.

While canon are hesitating in developing new sensors for their new range of cameras the likes of Nikon are enjoying the extra sales that come from being proactive in bringing newer better technology to customers.
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The technology is about more than the sensor.
The two manufacturers have quite a different strategy, as with the D800 / 5D3 neither are better than the other but aiming at different markets.

The 550D/600D use almost exactly the same tech - but beyond that the cameras you mentioned are all very different and right now nikon have nothing to counter the 650D/700D or 100D right now. To comparing on sensor alone is quite blinkered.
Also, the sensor might be the same, but the technology running that sensor has improved.

Although I use Canon at the moment I have no loyalty to them consequently if money was no object I would change to Nikon without hesitation, they are at the moment the more progressive camera manufacturer.
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Not really, but it's your choice.
 
Unless you are blowing up big time, how many MP do you actually need? Maybe Canon are not interesting in entering an arms race ...
 
Without turning this into Canon v Nikon, I ditched my d800 after a month. I WISH it was more like the 5Dmk3 spec-wise. In terms of losing their way? No way. They listened to the mk2 users and improved on a good camera with one that was close to perfection in terms of those who its marketed to. By comparison, Nikon listened to the feedback of d700 users, ignored it and stuck a massive 36mp sensor in the camera instead.

Since the mk3/d800 launch I know a lot more disappointed Nikon shooters than Canon. I had to buy a D4 to get close to the camera spec I wanted. If I shot canon the mk3 would've been perfect.

I really think it's nikon that has lost it's way in terms of providing what the customer wants. This is made more annoying by the fact that their sensors are technically so good.

PS. The term is damp squib ;)
 
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jonneymendoza said:
Umm the op is still comparing crop to a ff.
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Compare like for like - Canon crop sensors are not as good as other crop sensors. Canon FF sensors are not as good as other FF sensors. The dynamic range available tails off at lower ISOs on Canon sensors (in fact, the D3200 & CSCs such as the OM-D E-M5 beats the 5D3 on dynamic range below ISO 400).

Go and check out DxO if you don't believe me.

Canons sensors are behind the curve. The OP is right.
 
The 800 is in the same bracket as the 5D3 not the models you mentioned above. So IMHO your comparison does not hold water.
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It's comparing crop sensor cameras with a full frame camera - like comparing chalk and cheese
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The Canons you have listed are crop sensors where as the d800 is full frame?
The 1DX would be a better comparison.
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Umm the op is still comparing crop to a ff
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Compare like for like - Canon crop sensors are not as good as other crop sensors.
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Guys please read the full sentence and not take it out of context. I clearly said " NIkon's D800 and D7100 are better products than the Canon equivalents." What this means to spell it out to those who are are still confused is comparing the EOS 700D with the Nikon D7100 and comparing the Nikon d800 with the EOS 5D mk3. Do you understand now?

The reason I listed the cameras above is all seven cameras use the very same 3 year old 18MP sensor.
 
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Not sure either company really listen to their users or more to the point provide the camera everyone seems to want

I think Canon got pretty close with the 7D, but ultimately it was let down by noise issues even at relatively low iso's

Obviously everyones wants are slightly different, but think most people just want a solid elements proof picture taking machine with good af and low light capability. This package needs to be affordable and not have buyers think that one or more functions are being held back for future models (which they no doubt are)

Not sure too many want filter effects, in camera editing, scene modes or even video and wi-fi in its current small jpeg mode.

Always a danger for the companies that they produce something that is so right that future sales of new models are jeopardised, but people always seem to want something new so not that much of a risk really.

Quality control is another facet that needs improving, who wants to spend out then wait for a firmware upgrade to correct issues. Even worse when you get things like the oil contamination problem that affected at least two manufacturers in recent years
 
I have a friend who owns a camera shop and during a discussion regarding the relative merits of the D800 (and D800e) versus the 5DMKIII, he said the following:

"If you want to switch from your 5DMKIII to a D800(e), as a friend I'm telling not to bother because they're both as good as each other albeit with different features".

"As a salesman, I think switching would be a great idea!" ;)

Canon needs to pull its corporate finger out and get the upgrade for the 7D sorted soon because the current model is lagging a fair way behind the competition... Especially in terms of ISO performance (which was never brilliant in the first place).
 
One of the things I care about least when choosing a camera body is the amount of MPs.
Plenty happy campers out there with Nikon D300/D90s and Canon 40/50Ds. I often shoot on mRAW with my 7d and find if I'm not printing massive prints the images are punchier and cleaner.
There will always be the arguments about Better Dynamic range vs Better Noise at High ISOs etc and you could go an and on about it (look through the forums and you will find plenty debates on the subject)
As for the original post re the same sensor on so many models, well why not? These models fit a particular market for Canon and one that, as has been said, is at the top of the heap. The new Nikons may have 36Mp sensors but does that make them better than say a D4 with its meagre 16mp?

Also bear in mind that if you use inferior lenses with all those megapixels you may be very disappointed with what you see on screen because to get the advantage of all those MPs the glass has to be the best as well. So given that a lot (possibly the majority and by that I don't mean keen amateurs/forum members etc but just the buying public) buy Crop sensor cameras and never buy anything other than the kit lens it came with and this isn't an issue for Canon or Nikon because they are shifting massive amounts of units. The lower end cameras fit a sector in the market but, and this is the big BUT. In the hands of a keen Amateur/Pro and good glass attached they are still capable of producing superb results and really that's all that matters.

You have to put these things into some kind of rational perspective or you can simply spend loads and loads of your hard earned cash buying the next best camera because you think it will make your photography brilliant and that keeps Mr Nikon and Mr Canon very happy. Dont forget to spend the same again on lenses as well. :eek:
 
Gazamonk said:
One of the things I care about least when choosing a camera body is the amount of MPs.
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A couple of people have brought MP counts into this but I don't think that's anything to do with it.

If the question is are Canon lagging behind in sensor tech then you'd have to be a dyed in the wool fan boy to insist that Canon sensors are the best in every category as there's quite a bit of evidence to say that they're not at the cutting edge.

In recent years I don't think there's any doubt that if you were to chose a DSLR purely on ultimate image quality it wouldn't be a Canon but these things go in cycles and it has to be remembered that not too long ago Canon were at the cutting edge. These days and in regards to sensors they seem to have been overtaken and perhaps significantly so but they were and are the overall market leaders and may take the lead in sensors again at some point. Time will tell.
 
Is Canon losing its way in the DSLR market? Absolutely not.

Canon currently sells more DLSRs than Nikon, and has consistently been the SLR/DSLR market leader for decades. Nikon has taken the lead only a few times, though they're always nip and tuck. Between them, they have more than 80% of the market, Sony and Pentax etc are nowhere.

It's a long game and while you can argue that Nikon currently has better sensors, it's not by much - and a lot of that is down to Nikon's suppliers like Sony, Aptina and Toshiba. Canon will punch back.

What is a rather more interesting question is what's happening in other camera market sectors. The compact market has been effectively wiped out by mobile phone cams, and that's a worry as all camera makers made good money there. As for CSC, Canon came late to that sector with a lack-lustre product, and doesn't seem too bothered while Nikon is doing very well with its 1-Series.

On the other hand, Canon appears to be making a strong bid in high end video. And there are reliable reports that Canon has super high res sensors testing in the wild, amongst a few other rumours of high-end activity. One interpretation of that is Canon wants to own the keen enthusiast and professional imaging sectors, and continues to build on its very strong lens range that is central to that.
 
As a camera manufacturer your job is to sell as many cameras as you can, unfortunately canon are not motivating current users of their cameras to upgrade.

For example users of EOS 550D & EOS 600D cameras are not given any incentive by Canon to upgrade as the newly released 700D uses exactly the same sensor as there current cameras hence my belief that canon have lost their way.
 
I dont think you have will get much from this thread as the fan boys will defend there camps.
There seems to be alot more of it with uk users, , compaired to else where.
Have a look at say the FM forum and you will see a more varied view.

Most users do like there d800 as its got great dynamic range and the files hold so much detail. Yes some would have preferred less mp and more fps but after using it dont seem so bothered. Users have not been impressed with the AF issues though and nikons repair's.

Canon users for the most part seem happy with the mk3. But have criticised canon for taking so long to bring out a sensor that doesnt compeat with the sony versions for low DR(its supposedly worse then the mk2)and that it still shows banding in shadows when lifted. It does in this sense seem like not much of an improvement for the money.

So Canons does seem like less of an improvement say compaired to the d800. But they have just made small changes that make a well rounded product. I think that its getting to the point where there finding it hard to push them any further with current tech.
Canon supposidly has new sensor tech and af being developed... which u dont hear anything similar by nikon. The next round may go the opposite way.

I own a d800e and have considered switching to the 5dmk3 but havnt... over the next year or so I may even consider running duel systems as each offer benifits over the other if money allows.
 
redsnappa said:
As a camera manufacturer your job is to sell as many cameras as you can, unfortunately canon are not motivating current users of their cameras to upgrade.

For example users of EOS 550D & EOS 600D cameras are not given any incentive by Canon to upgrade as the newly released 700D uses exactly the same sensor as there current cameras hence my belief that canon have lost their way.
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The evidence of DSLR sales does not support that view (google GfK research). You are taking a very narrow snapshot from a brief timescale and making too much of it.
 
I don't think they are loosing there way and they may still be selling more. But they are defiantly not pushing tech and re using the same stuff over multiple models a lot more than other brand's are.

Many this is due to them feeling more comfortable and lazy due to being the larges seller, but this may change.
For example I see as many of each brand here in the uk,probably more lower end nikons,compared to higher end canon.

But I noticed that each time I visit china. See a much larger amount each time of Nikon dslrs compared to canon.
 
I think if there Is a difference it's just cyclical. If Nikon are producing more innovative stuff then canon that'll change and swap round at some point
 
redsnappa said:
and comparing the Nikon d800 with the EOS 5D mk3. Do you understand now?
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The D800 SHOULD BE compared to the Canon 5D3.
What would YOU compare it with in the canon range then?
 
redsnappa said:
For example users of EOS 550D & EOS 600D cameras are not given any incentive by Canon to upgrade as the newly released 700D uses exactly the same sensor as there current cameras hence my belief that canon have lost their way.
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Read my post.

It's about more than the sensor you know.

I find it funny you moan at folk for apparently not reading what you put, then ignore what others post because it doesn't fit your argument.
 
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Canon have always struck me as a staid and steady brand that make the camera equivalent of a Ford Mondeo. It's capable rather than exciting.

When was the last time canon did something ground breaking?
 
The expression is 'damp squib. A squid is a type of marine animal and meant to be very damp; a squib is a type of small explosive device and is meant to be kept dry
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Oh dear the grammar and spelling anoraks are trolling.

If you have nothing to add to this interesting debate please don't troll here, go and buy yourself a copy of the Guardian newspaper there will be lots of spelling and grammar mistakes to keep you happy all day.


The D800 SHOULD BE compared to the Canon 5D3.
What would YOU compare it with in the canon range then?
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Erm... The Canon EOS 5D mk3
 
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redsnappa said:
What this means to spell it out to those who are are still confused is comparing the EOS 700D with the Nikon D7100 and comparing the Nikon d800 with the EOS 5D mk3. Do you understand now?
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redsnappa said:
Erm... The Canon EOS 5D mk3
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You first post I quoted was not clear in this which may be why I am confused...

The D7100 cannot be compared to the 700D - different model ranges. The D800 can be compared to the 5D3, same model ranges.
 
The D7100 cannot be compared to the 700D - different model ranges
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Richard You are are correct. I should have compared the 18MP EOS 700Dwith Nikons 24MP D5200.

My argument still hold up as the Nikons 24MP sensor has a better dynamic range than the Canon 18MP sensor.

see the link below. for a direct comparison between the 2 cameras, it makes for interesting reading.
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-EOS-700D-vs-Nikon-D5200
 
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And, on sensor alone, you are correct.

BUT, a camera these days is about more than just the sensor. This has been my point all along - you cannot say one camera is better than another based entirely on the sensor. Ok, you can, but that opinion will only be true for you and is not reflective of everyone. Canon have put a lot of time into the features they understand folk want to see in the various ranges. As such the 700D might fall down on the sensor, but has some truly impressive video features for an entry level camera.

Also, you cannot categorically state the D800 is better than the 5D3 for the same reason. It isn't.
 
redsnappa said:
Oh dear the grammar and spelling anoraks are trolling.

If you have nothing to add to this interesting debate please don't troll here, go and buy yourself a copy of the Guardian newspaper there will be lots of spelling and grammar mistakes to keep you happy all day.


Erm... The Canon EOS 5D mk3
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As pointed out by someone else, I made no reference to your grammar or your spelling. I did, however, point out that you had made a fundamental mistake in your simile - the one that you employed to make your point in your opening gambit in this debate.

Excluding the 100D, 7D and 60D because they are single examples of cameras in their own class (or in another 'range' if you prefer), the crop factor Canons that you list were released from quarter 1 of 2010 through to quarter one of 2013 and from the 600D onwards bring differing features/refinements on the previous model, employing the same sensor. The comparable cameras in the Nikon range released in the same time-frame are the D5100, released April 2011 and the D5200, released November 2012 and using a different sensor. There were no intermediary models refining the D5100 but using the same sensor.

I don't think that this points to "canon are hesitating in developing new sensors for their new range of cameras the likes of Nikon are enjoying the extra sales that come from being proactive in bringing newer better technology to customers" and as others have said, the sales figures don't support that either.

I would also contest that this debate is interesting. Nikon and Canon are both market leaders in the DSLR market that offer similar but different products - both brands have very capable products. The consumer makes their choice based on a whole load of factors outside of the sensor and it is patently obvious that Canon are not losing their way. Quite a boring debate really but I'll contribute beyond my earlier post just to reinforce that I am not trolling. You missed my 'winkie' when you quoted me ;).
 
redsnappa said:
Oh dear the grammar and spelling anoraks are trolling...
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He wasn't 'trolling' as you put it... He merely corrected your mistake! ;)

As usual though, whenever someone gets corrected for their poor use of our language, there's always a defensive retort! :shrug:

Getting back on topic, regardless of whether Canon are a bit mired with their 18mp sensor, the improvements in performance behind it have been notable. To give an example as a former 7D owner, I have found that the images I'm getting from my back-up camera (the 650D) are far better in terms of ISO performance compared to my old 7D... I'll grant that I'm making a subjective assessment but I stand by it. :)
 
Laudrup said:
Are Canon going to bring out a high MP camera to take on the D800?
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The answer is 'probably'

The question is, do current canon users actually want one?

Some do, sure. But how many in reality?
 
That 36MP sensor in a Canon body would sell like hot cakes. Nikon (and Sony) will be doing well to top it for the D900.
 
DuncanF said:
Unless you are blowing up big time, how many MP do you actually need? Maybe Canon are not interesting in entering an arms race ...
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My reason for buying a D800 was the massive pixel count and the quality of all those pixels. My D700 gives me plenty to print up to A3 but the D800 lets me crop heavily into the image and still print that large, effectively stretching my reach if I need the extra length.

weybourne said:
Excluding the 100D, 7D and 60D because they are single examples of cameras in their own class... (snip)

Oddly, given that I'm a Nikon user, I've been looking at the 100D as a possibility. I'll probably wait until there's an equivalent Nikon though but the idea of a small crop sensor body rather appeals, despite my massive paws!

(snip)...You missed my 'winkie' when you quoted me ;).

Easy to miss apparently! :D
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