Angry White and Thick

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Nikon_Nick said:
Cool. Why not? Is it because you dont believe in God?
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I've studied the bible at length, and when you read the book of Genesis you just can't believe it. No, I don't believe in god, but I do believe that a lot of the christian teachings are good moral ones to base a society around. Whether I believe, or not, is irrelevant, my culture, forebears believed and I was born into a country where the christian influence has been undeniably the shaping of my countries history, my own heritage and the laws I adhere too. In the same way, a chap in Saudi's laws, heritage etc is unmistakbably shaped by Islam.

I believe, that to preserve the way of life we are accustomed too, we as a country should be alert to the Islamic thread for a minority of Muslims and a desire of that minority to spread Islam here, no matter what the cost.
I also believe that if people who live here, and are born here, despise our ways so much they are willing to kill themselves trying to spread their perverted sense of Islam, perhaps we as a nation should be cracking down harder on that and perhaps being more cirumspect about who we do and don't let inm
 
Byker28i said:
At that point they'd be breaking the laws in this country and so be subject to them. That's nothing about religion, culture, simply that you are governed by the laws of the country you live in. Some ban gays, some ban alcohol, some have different views on whats excessive speed (isle of man for instance) etc, etc We are all governed by the laws of that country.

It doesn't need anything else, it really doesn't. We vote for the people who make the laws, and if you don't obey them you get punished. Simples. It really doesn't need anything else.
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I hope you don't revisit this conversation in 20-30yrs when through apathy we've slowly allowed the hard line islamists to vote in aspects of Sharia law. Part of me likes aspects of Sharia law, but I sure as hell don't want it for me or my countrymen.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I find it hard to agree with anything that ST4 says, ever - but I do find myself agreeing with parts of what he says.

For example, I visit China on business. I don't expect anyone there to speak English (although English is now taught in schools as a second language, so it isn't hard to find young educated people who can at least speak some English. It's their country, it's my responsibility to communicate with people there in a language that they can understand.

If ever I need to visit a hospital there, I won't expect them to either speak English or to provide me with an interpreter - my problem, it is I who must solve it.

But, in this country, it's the opposite. The PC brigade feel that our public services must pay for interpreters and translaters and must pay for printed materials in a host of languages that are not native to this country. I sort of don't mind that too much, but I do find it slightly offensive when, at my local hospital for example, English is nowhere near the first language on leaflets and notices.

Personally I don't see why people who choose to live in this country can choose not to learn our language, and who don't even need to because they know that we will bear the financial cost of communicating with them. I see that as racist, because English speaking people are discriminated against.
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Or indeed specialist female security staff at public sector employers to deal with Burhka wearing employees. Sorry, but its not on. They need to adapt to our ways, not ours there's.
 
And what is it exactly that you think Islam teaches? Ask the majority of Muslims this, and they will give you an extremely similar answer to the question, than if you had asked a big group of Christians.

The point is, Steve, that it is only the extreme miniority that are doing the things that you (and the rest of us) find abhorrent, so why do you think just because someone wants to live here that they should follow the ways of Christianity, instead of their already peaceful/tolerant religion? And what makes Christianity any better than Islam?
 
ST4 said:
Or indeed specialist female security staff at public sector employers to deal with Burhka wearing employees. Sorry, but its not on. They need to adapt to our ways, not ours there's.
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Any company doing this is choosing to do so.
The burhka is not a requirement under Islam.
They may be doing it to be PC, or for the quiet life, but they are choosing that option.
 
Nikon_Nick said:
it is only the extreme miniority that are doing the things that you (and the rest of us) find abhorrent, so why do you think just because someone wants to live here that they should follow the ways of Christianity, instead of their already peaceful/tolerant religion? And what makes Christianity any better than Islam?
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Didn't you know that all Christians wear white suits and pointy hats with KKK on them and go after people of a different colour. At least, that's what they appear to do in the US.

In Norway, they all go on shooting sprees and over here they plant bombs in London in a bid to get rid of British rule in Ireland.


Steve.
 
Nikon_Nick said:
The point is, Steve, that it is only the extreme miniority that are doing the things that you (and the rest of us) find abhorrent, so why do you think just because someone wants to live here that they should follow the ways of Christianity, instead of their already peaceful/tolerant religion? And what makes Christianity any better than Islam?
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I said that in order to be considered hosts, as opposed to guests or outsiders, practicing Islam which has never had anything to do with Britain isn't the way to be seen as British. On another foot, I go live in Saudi, I have children there but instead of going to the mosque 5x a day, they stay in and go to a church instead, they'd be seen as a minority right. Instead of eating local halal food, I import pork and have them eat pork sandwiches in the school lunch. See how that might have them fail to intergrate and be seen as outsiders. I would hope the native Muslims, being a peaceful/tolerant lot as you put it, would tolerate it, but could you really expect them to embrace those kids, me etc as anything other than outsiders.

I never said to live here you need to adopt Christainity, but sure as hell practicing Islam and having very obvious Islamic behaviours (dietry requirements, obviously different places of worship, wanting Muslim only schools, putting up signs banning dogs as Muslims don't like dogs - google it) is not a way to fit in and intergrate.
 
viv1969 said:
Any company doing this is choosing to do so.
The burhka is not a requirement under Islam.
They may be doing it to be PC, or for the quiet life, but they are choosing that option.
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No. the PC lot, and lefty know it all gaurdian types have made any sense of being British a taboo subject. God what should we do, we might offend a Muslim in our own non Islamic country.

That's it, I might hang myself at the thought...
 
Steve Smith said:
Didn't you know that all Christians wear white suits and pointy hats with KKK on them and go after people of a different colour. At least, that's what they appear to do in the US.

In Norway, they all go on shooting sprees and over here they plant bombs in London in a bid to get rid of British rule in Ireland.


Steve.
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Indeed, but thats still a better option for the UK though ... right? It must be, because those are the Western values that our great country were built on.
 
ST4 said:
No. the PC lot, and lefty know it all gaurdian types have made any sense of being British a taboo subject. God what should we do, we might offend a Muslim in our own non Islamic country.

That's it, I might hang myself at the thought...
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No Steve. Bleat all you like, but those employers CHOOSE to make those concessions.
 
ST4 said:
Because of the stupid laws that pander to people who are nothing more than guests here. Because of apathy in our politics, legal system and people has made us an easy target for vociferous people who are guests here.
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There are NO LAWS requiring an employer to provide separate staff to deal with Burhka wearing women.
If they provide them, that's up to them.
 
Steve Smith said:
Didn't you know that all Christians wear white suits and pointy hats with KKK on them and go after people of a different colour. At least, that's what they appear to do in the US.

In Norway, they all go on shooting sprees and over here they plant bombs in London in a bid to get rid of British rule in Ireland.


Steve.
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The KKK you could say was Christian terrorism, but Anders Breivik and the IRA weren't.
 
ST4 said:
Because of the stupid laws that pander to people who are nothing more than guests here.
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You keep saying guests. To be a citizen of a country you just have to be born in it. After that you just have to abide by that countries laws.
 
is there a big push by the Jehova's witnesses at the moment? Everywhere you go they are on the streets, pushing their propaganda at you (politely asking if you'd like a copy). I mean, it's not like christians would ever go to another country, try to convert them all to their religion...

It's all getting a bit playground, especially as we (the west) started it...

No matter what you say Steve, I can find you an example of the so called Christian west doing exactly the same back in history.
 
Byker28i said:
You keep saying guests. To be a citizen of a country you just have to be born in it. After that you just have to abide by that countries laws.
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No, to be a citizen, you have to be Christian, white British...apparently.
 
Nikon_Nick said:
And what is it exactly that you think Islam teaches? Ask the majority of Muslims this, and they will give you an extremely similar answer to the question, than if you had asked a big group of Christians.

The point is, Steve, that it is only the extreme miniority that are doing the things that you (and the rest of us) find abhorrent, so why do you think just because someone wants to live here that they should follow the ways of Christianity, instead of their already peaceful/tolerant religion? And what makes Christianity any better than Islam?
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Christopher Hitchens quote is apt:

But at the moment, it’s very clear to me the most toxic form that religion takes is the Islamic form… The whole idea of wanting to end up with Sharia with a religion-governed state — a state of religious law — and the best means of getting there is Jihad, Holy War, that Muslims have a special right to feel aggrieved enough to demand this is absolute obscene wickedness and I think their religion is nonsense, in its entirety.

Islam rather dangerously says, ‘Ours is the last and final one. There can’t be any more after this. This is God’s last word. That is straightaway a temptation to violence and intolerance and if you will note, it’s a temptation they seem quite willing to fall for.”
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Laudrup said:
The KKK you could say was Christian terrorism, but Anders Breivik and the IRA weren't.
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Anders Brevik was - look at Ghoti's posts further up where she addresses this point with quotes from his ranting about him being a soilder of christ.

And while the IRA weren't predominant motivated by religion despite being mostly catholic (many claimed to be marxist - although that may have been a ploy to get arms and money our of the USSR) and was more about Brits out of Ulster , it the same vein it could be said that Hamas / Fatah etc arent islamic terrorists because although they are predominantly islamic their aims is the end of jewish control of Israel/Palestine
 
ST4 said:
Can you name another religion in the world right now that is associated with terrorism?
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JDL. Saffron terror. It's actually harder to name a religion that doesn't have terrorism associated with its extremists. Of course Jedi Knight was a religion on the last census. I've not heard of Jedi extremists yet
 
Nikon_Nick said:
Christianity...Catholisism...


You really dont understand the meaning of the word minority do you?
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IIRC the IRA was not just about religion (the clue is in the title) but that of race, and territory and dispute over NI.

Jihad is a rather different concept, and whilst jihadists are in the minority of Muslims, they represent Islam or purport to. The IRA never represented Catholicism, but rather Ireland and separatists within NI. Very different. One is political, the other purely religion.

A lot of westerns seem to wish to blame themselves and point the finger at themselves and their ancestors, but in reality, the antagonism has come purely from the radical (yes minority) of Muslims. To be honest though, it doesn't matter whether its 1 in a million muslims, or 10 in one muslims that support this jihad. We've let them in, allowed them to prosper in our countries and this is how they see fit to repay us.

Not even in the UK but you get the idea. Tell me, do we see this with Chinese, Indian, Polish (etc any other non Muslim immigrant(s))

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/soci...ools-to-accommodate-islamic-beliefs-1.1915810

Or this...our education pandering to the needs of Muslim children rather than them fitting into the what we teach

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10775755/State-schools-isolate-non-Muslims.html

Why is it only out of our diverse immigrant population only Islamic ones that seem to struggle with life here.
 
ST4 said:
Can you name another religion in the world right now that is associated with terrorism?
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Yes Christiantity ( Lords resistance army, Anders Brevik, KKK, various other extreme rightwing nutters in the US including the una bomber and christan identity),

theres also substantial Hindu Terrorism , mainly directed against muslims ,(predominantly perpetrated by the RSS and The AB - don't ask me to spell their full names)

plus there's a fair bit of extreme jewish terrorism not just directed at arabs but also at gays, left wingers and indeed moderate jews - most notably Yigal Amir's assasination of Yistsak Rabin)
 
simon ess said:
There's even Buddhist extremism going on in Sri Lanka. :(
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And Myanmar (burma) with the 969 movement - plus the Aum Shinrikyo who released sarin gas on the tokyo subway were essentially buddhists
 
ST4 said:
Christianity is the host religion of Britain. If you proactively practice a religion that's not ever been here, how can you truly see yourself as British?

You can live/work here without being British you know.
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As a non Christian (whose parents were Christian) am I allowed to see myself as British or not?

If you really do feel like this (and aren't just trolling) then I feel sorry for anyone that you ever meet in real life

.
 
big soft moose said:
Anders Brevik was - look at Ghoti's posts further up where she addresses this point with quotes from his ranting about him being a soilder of christ.

And while the IRA weren't predominant motivated by religion despite being mostly catholic (many claimed to be marxist - although that may have been a ploy to get arms and money our of the USSR) and was more about Brits out of Ulster , it the same vein it could be said that Hamas / Fatah etc arent islamic terrorists because although they are predominantly islamic their aims is the end of jewish control of Israel/Palestine
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Breivik hated 'Marxists' and was anti-Islamic. Him being called a Christian fundamentalist is trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole when you look at his ramblings he isn't very religious at all and didn't pretend to be. The IRA was about territory and national identity, not religion. They don't really compare to Hamas who want to establish an Islamic Caliphate.
 
ST4 said:
No. the PC lot, and lefty know it all gaurdian types have made any sense of being British a taboo subject. God what should we do, we might offend a Muslim in our own non Islamic country.

That's it, I might hang myself at the thought...
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Your brand of being British is thankfully a taboo subject these days, as people aren't often as openly racist as you appear to be (ironically your views are quite 'radical' and 'extreme')
 
i actually wonder due to the amount of immigrants influx and the undoubtedly growing muslim population within the u.k how the choices for the next general are going to be made .there are two main candidates with a possible other two to throw a monkey wrench into the equation .so lets see
1st off david cameron ,but will he get the muslim vote due to his failure to condemn the gaza bombings
2nd labour under red ed milliband ,will he get the muslim vote ,hmm hard to see muslims voting for a jewish prime minister
3rd the liberals under nick clegg retreat under them is faster than a french surrender
4th ukip under farage who wants us out of europe its the people in his party that are the real unknown quantity and a suspect a lot of closet racists in there

and you think you got trouble with a few thick skinheads ,gonna be a interesting year ahead thats for sure
 
the black fox said:
i actually wonder due to the amount of immigrants influx and the undoubtedly growing muslim population within the u.k how the choices for the next general are going to be made .there are two main candidates with a possible other two to throw a monkey wrench into the equation .so lets see
1st off david cameron ,but will he get the muslim vote due to his failure to condemn the gaza bombings
2nd labour under red ed milliband ,will he get the muslim vote ,hmm hard to see muslims voting for a jewish prime minister
3rd the liberals under nick clegg retreat under them is faster than a french surrender
4th ukip under farage who wants us out of europe its the people in his party that are the real unknown quantity and a suspect a lot of closet racists in there

and you think you got trouble with a few thick skinheads ,gonna be a interesting year ahead thats for sure
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How many muslims do you think there are in the UK? As a % of population?
 
the black fox said:
ukip under farage who wants us out of europe its the people in his party that are the real unknown quantity and a suspect a lot of closet racists in there
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I don't think there are any closets involved!


Steve.
 
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the black fox said:
i

and you think you got trouble with a few thick skinheads ,gonna be a interesting year ahead thats for sure
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I never saw one proper Skinhead in that programme so quit with the stereotyping and know what you are talking about before pigeon holing. Having short hair does not make you a Skinhead. I know hundreds of Skinheads and very few of them are thick or racist come to that. You'd be surprised.
 
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BRASH said:
I never saw one proper Skinhead in that programme so quit with the stereotyping and know what you are talking about before pigeon holing. Having short hair does not make you a Skinhead. I know hundreds of Skinheads and very few of them are thick or racist come to that. You'd be surprised.
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To be fair this whole thread is about stereotyping.
 
And the strange thing is, that ST4 as a 'guest' in Scotland, still thinks it's right for him to vote on Scottish matters, moan about Scottish people... :D
 
Byker28i said:
And the strange thing is, that ST4 as a 'guest' in Scotland, still thinks it's right for him to vote on Scottish matters, moan about Scottish people . Anything and everything:D
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FTFY ;)
 
mjScall said:
As a non Christian (whose parents were Christian) am I allowed to see myself as British or not?

If you really do feel like this (and aren't just trolling) then I feel sorry for anyone that you ever meet in real life

.
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Do you practice openly a religion other than Christianity.

You've not read my posts thoroughly. Please do, you'll answer your question
 
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