Angry White and Thick

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ST4 said:
I am British.

Those "British" people/separatists that hate being in Britain so much are IMHO best advised to leave Britain. The decision of the Scottish part of Britain was to stay in Britain.
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I think if you ask anyone they'll say they are scottish not British. As such, under your rules, you're a guest in that country. You therefore enjoy those rules that pander to you, such as being allowed to vote on independence as you are a guest in that country.

ST4 said:
I hope you don't revisit this conversation in 20-30yrs when through apathy we've slowly allowed the hard line islamists to vote in aspects of Sharia law. Part of me likes aspects of Sharia law, but I sure as hell don't want it for me or my countrymen.
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That's how democracy works, we, as in the citizens of that country, vote for who we want into power and they make rules. We don't like it we vote for someone else.

Oh and
ST4 said:
western values (based on a Christian culture) then perhaps living here isn't for them, even if they were born here.
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Democracy started in Greece by the way...so should we all be greek orthadox, not Cof E?
 
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Byker28i said:
I think if you ask anyone they'll say they are scottish not British. As such, under your rules, you're a guest in that country. You therefore enjoy those rules that pander to you, such as being allowed to vote on independence as you are a guest in that country.
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You are quite wrong, many Scottish born people will say they are British, in the same way many English people will say they are English. Many didn't want to be forced to give up their British identity/nationality for Salmonds vile socialist notion of a Scottish one. As it were the majority of Scottish residents voted no, so perhaps the 45% minority are guests of Britain....

My passport, Birth certificate say British. I have no notion of being Scottish and have no desire to be seen or regarded as Scottish. I am not English, welsh, irish or Scottish, but British. My government is in westminster, that thing in Edinburgh is an aberration IMHO.


Byker28i said:
That's how democracy works, we, as in the citizens of that country, vote for who we want into power and they make rules. We don't like it we vote for someone else.

Oh and


Democracy started in Greece by the way...so should we all be greek orthadox, not Cof E?
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Democracy started in greece. Christianity didn't. Orthodox, Catholic, Methodist, C of E high church, C of E low church, Lutheran, Free church etc are all just factions/methods of practicing the same religion. The belief that Christ died for our sins etc is the same, the religions core message is the same.
 
55% of people viewed themselves as British at the referendum. You can be Scottish and British and your passport will confirm this. It was the Braveheart Yes types with a chip on their shoulder who always maintained they were Scottish and not British.
 
Steve Smith said:
British isn't a nationality. Scottish, English and Welsh are.



Steve.
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Incorrect on that point Steve. Check some of the GOV.UK sites for clarification.
 
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EU is not a nation but has EU nationals. Semantics but it exists as it does in Britain (or British Nationals abroad, including citizens but nationals all the same).

See the heading on this Government Document. It's there in black and white. The end - unless the Government is wrong. They never get anything wrong..............................................................................................................do they??

https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/overview
 
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viv1969 said:
Britain is a nation.
England, Wales and Scotland are kingdoms
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We don't have a king......................only me and I have left the building (tho some may say I'm a bit of a queen:kiss:).
 
Laudrup said:
Breivik hated 'Marxists' and was anti-Islamic. Him being called a Christian fundamentalist is trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole when you look at his ramblings he isn't very religious at all and didn't pretend to be. The IRA was about territory and national identity, not religion. They don't really compare to Hamas who want to establish an Islamic Caliphate.
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if you say so

personally i would have thought him beliving he is the' justicar of the knights templar' and writing in his manifesto "I believe Europe should strive for: A cultural conservative approach where monoculturalism, moral, the nuclear family, a free market, support for Israel and our Christian cousins of the east, law and order and Christendom itself must be central aspects (unlike now)." were fairly clear indications of religious extremism

also while you are right that the IRA were about territoriy and national identity , what do you think the PLO were/are about ? (the name is a bit of a give away)
 
Rapscallion said:
If we are being pedantic, Wales is a principality....!
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well it is now - but that was imposed by the normans , the welsh would largely consider it a country in its own right as the remaining territory of the southern Celts
 
ST4 said:
Democracy started in greece. Christianity didn't.
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The early scriptures were written in Greek and Aramaic


ST4 said:
Orthodox, Catholic, Methodist, C of E high church, C of E low church, Lutheran, Free church etc are all just factions/methods of practicing the same religion. The belief that Christ died for our sins etc is the same, the religions core message is the same.
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There's remarkable smilarities between Islam and christianity as well. You should try reading the quran sometime
 
Byker28i said:
There's remarkable smilarities between Islam and christianity as well. You should try reading the quran sometime
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(y) and between christianity and judeaism , and indeed islam and judaeism...

and that jesus was a jew, and indeed one of those funny brown folk from the levant - if he was arround today some posters would probably tell him to keep his weird foreign ideas to himself

theres also the point that britain isnt a christian country per se - we are secular with church and state divided.

however lets not confuse the issue with too many facts or logical points ;)
 
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Byker28i said:
The early scriptures were written in Greek and Aramaic
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Yes, and until the reformation all church services and bible readings were conducted in Latin. Are you saying that the reformed religion is somehow less christian because of it.




Byker28i said:
There's remarkable smilarities between Islam and christianity as well. You should try reading the quran sometime
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There are, indeed the 1st and 2nd books of the Quran are the bible. The 1st book of the Bible is the Jewish book.
 
big soft moose said:
if you say so

personally i would have thought him beliving he is the' justicar of the knights templar' and writing in his manifesto "I believe Europe should strive for: A cultural conservative approach where monoculturalism, moral, the nuclear family, a free market, support for Israel and our Christian cousins of the east, law and order and Christendom itself must be central aspects (unlike now)." were fairly clear indications of religious extremism

also while you are right that the IRA were about territoriy and national identity , what do you think the PLO were/are about ? (the name is a bit of a give away)
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He also said "I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person, as that would be a lie". Do you hear that from Islamic fundamentalists in ISIS or al-Qaida? Breivik was anti-Islam, against immigration and a nationalist. His ramblings about a religion he didn't follow and was highly critical of would come way down the pecking order in his motives compared to Islamic fundamentalist terrorists.

Hamas are a designated terrorist organisation here and in the US etc. The PLO reject terrorism and violence, Hamas don't. You can't really have productive negotiations with people who don't recognise your right to exist.
 
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Byker28i said:
The early scriptures were written in Greek and Aramaic

There's remarkable smilarities between Islam and christianity as well. You should try reading the quran sometime
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That would be because it is a plagiarism from earlier books and traditions. All religious books claim to be revealed truth. A big problem with Islam is it tells us it is the final word of God.
 
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Laudrup said:
He also said "I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person, as that would be a lie". Do you hear that from Islamic fundamentalists in ISIS or al-Qaida? Breivik was anti-Islam, against immigration and a nationalist. His ramblings about a religion he didn't follow and was highly critical of would come way down the pecking order in his motives compared to Islamic fundamentalist terrorists.

Hamas are a designated terrorist organisation here and in the US etc. The PLO reject terrorism and violence, Hamas don't. You can't really have productive negotiations with people who don't recognise your right to exist.
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He also said that the pope was a false pope and that the catholic and protestant churches should be disolved and a christian council set up. I'm not disagreeing that he was nuts as he clearly was , but then blowing yourself up in the belief that you'll be entertainined in paradise by 72 virgins isnt exactly a rational act either.

on your second point the PLO renouce viiolence now, but they used to be a terrorist organisation just like Hamas (or more accurately Fatah renounce violence - Hamas and Fatah ae both factions of the PLO. Just like the real IRA and continuity IRA don't recognise the PIRA cease fire)
 
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Laudrup said:
That would be because it is a plagiarism from earlier books and traditions. All religious books claim to be revealed truth. A big problem with Islam is it tells us it is the final word of God.
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nope - its not plaigarism they recognise both the bible and the talmud/torah as religious texts - Christianity says that its the final word of god too , to a fundamentalist christian, the followers of islam are heretics
 
ST4 said:
Yes, and until the reformation all church services and bible readings were conducted in Latin. Are you saying that the reformed religion is somehow less christian because of it.
.
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Define Christian. Are we talking unity or trinity?

There's various branches of Christianity and Islam is effectively one of those, which is why your argument about if 'they' dont like our christian country they can leave a little ridiculous, when you actually start looking deeply into the facts rather than spouting bigoted rhetoric (in my personal opinion of course). Just because it's packaged differently doesn't ultimately make it different. It's an additional set of rules as to how one should lead ones life, over and above those defined in the country of residence.

All religions have people taking advantage of others, whether it's taking money (US tv preachers, or cofe churches paying significant sums to the diocese , putting the believers up against the authorities (wako?), Islam isn't any different to any other religion, which is where the underlying laws of the country take over and they get treated as the Criminals they are.

As for laws changing, yes they do, frequently to reflect the changing world, part of which is the mix of the population. As citizens you get the right to vote, to take part in the democracy, to elect the people you want to make those laws for you and to boot them out of power when you feel they haven't done a good job. Ultimately if you don't like the way the country is run then you have two real options to do something about it. Work within the system to change it, get involved in politics, or leave the country for somewhere you feel is better. Moaning on a small internet forum doesn't change anything.

P.S. Tony Bliar as a christian took us into an illegal war by lying to us, but has justified it with his beliefs
 
Byker28i said:
There's various branches of Christianity and Islam is effectively one of those,
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Interesting theory - although on that logic its actually branches of Judaeism and both Christianity and Islam are branches of that ;) (interestingly thats a theory some far right nut jobs agree with - Christian Identity for example - as they claim that the white northern europeans are the true isrealites - alledgedly the tribes of isreal kidnapped by the assyrians, while the Jews are said to actually be the sons of Lesu :confused:
 
big soft moose said:
Interesting theory - although on that logic its actually branches of Judaeism and both Christianity and Islam are branches of that ;) (interestingly thats a theory some far right nut jobs agree with - Christian Identity for example - as they claim that the white northern europeans are the true isrealites - alledgedly the tribes of isreal kidnapped by the assyrians, while the Jews are said to actually be the sons of Lesu :confused:
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Is that another one of Geofrreys tales?!
 
Byker28i said:
Define Christian. Are we talking unity or trinity?

There's various branches of Christianity and Islam is effectively one of those, which is why your argument about if 'they' dont like our christian country they can leave a little ridiculous, when you actually start looking deeply into the facts rather than spouting bigoted rhetoric (in my personal opinion of course). Just because it's packaged differently doesn't ultimately make it different. It's an additional set of rules as to how one should lead ones life, over and above those defined in the country of residence.

All religions have people taking advantage of others, whether it's taking money (US tv preachers, or cofe churches paying significant sums to the diocese , putting the believers up against the authorities (wako?), Islam isn't any different to any other religion, which is where the underlying laws of the country take over and they get treated as the Criminals they are.

As for laws changing, yes they do, frequently to reflect the changing world, part of which is the mix of the population. As citizens you get the right to vote, to take part in the democracy, to elect the people you want to make those laws for you and to boot them out of power when you feel they haven't done a good job. Ultimately if you don't like the way the country is run then you have two real options to do something about it. Work within the system to change it, get involved in politics, or leave the country for somewhere you feel is better. Moaning on a small internet forum doesn't change anything.

P.S. Tony Bliar as a christian took us into an illegal war by lying to us, but has justified it with his beliefs
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All branches of Christianity recognize the resurrection, Jesus was the son of god. None of the Christian teachings acknowledge Mohammed. Islam's core prophet in Mohammed. Islam isn't a branch of Chrisitianity anymore than Christianity is a branch of Juediasm.

Eventually (referring to the posted bit in gold) as our Islamic population grows and their radical members drum up support the mix of the population will be predominantly Eastern/Semitic as opposed to Arian. I hope you are ready and willing to see Sharia law, Halal, Islam become the new norm and live in a regime thats more akin to whats in Saudi etc than what we have. Best practice getting up at 4am, you'll need to for when you are forced to go to morning prayer in future years once Islam becomes the new norm. Fundamentalist Islamists will stop at nothing to spread that religion here and convert people to it.

Enjoy your remaining years of apathy
 
big soft moose said:
Interesting theory - although on that logic its actually branches of Judaeism and both Christianity and Islam are branches of that ;) (interestingly thats a theory some far right nut jobs agree with - Christian Identity for example - as they claim that the white northern europeans are the true isrealites - alledgedly the tribes of isreal kidnapped by the assyrians, while the Jews are said to actually be the sons of Lesu :confused:
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Effectively yes, but I was trying to make the simple link. It's a big mixing pot with paganism chucked in as well
 
ST4 said:
All branches of Christianity recognize the resurrection, Jesus was the son of god. None of the Christian teachings acknowledge Mohammed. Islam's core prophet in Mohammed. Islam isn't a branch of Chrisitianity anymore than Christianity is a branch of Juediasm.

Eventually (referring to the posted bit in gold) as our Islamic population grows and their radical members drum up support the mix of the population will be predominantly Eastern/Semitic as opposed to Arian. I hope you are ready and willing to see Sharia law, Halal, Islam become the new norm and live in a regime thats more akin to whats in Saudi etc than what we have. Best practice getting up at 4am, you'll need to for when you are forced to go to morning prayer in future years once Islam becomes the new norm. Fundamentalist Islamists will stop at nothing to spread that religion here and convert people to it.

Enjoy your remaining years of apathy
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You forgot to mention the children - won't someone think of the children - and kittens

Whens this going to happen ST4? We encouraged immigration in the 50's, 60 years on and the census said 86% of the population were of white ethnicity, 7.5% asian, 3.3% black, 2.2% mixed.
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/censu...ities-in-england-and-wales/rpt-ethnicity.html

it's not, but your bigotry slip is showing dear

Muslim in the uk in the 2011 census 2,706,066
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/about-ons...-in-the-uk-for-2011--2012-and-2013/index.html
 
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big soft moose said:
He also said that the pope was a false pope and that the catholic and protestant churches should be disolved and a christian council set up. I'm not disagreeing that he was nuts as he clearly was , but then blowing yourself up in the belief that you'll be entertainined in paradise by 72 virgins isnt exactly a rational act either.

on your second point the PLO renouce viiolence now, but they used to be a terrorist organisation just like Hamas (or more accurately Fatah renounce violence - Hamas and Fatah ae both factions of the PLO. Just like the real IRA and continuity IRA don't recognise the PIRA cease fire)
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He rambled about a lot of stupid things, but it looks like his prejudices against Islam and 'Marxists' were what really drove him. He's an unconvincing figure to be labeled as a Christian terrorist. A far-right extremist terrorist with a narcissistic personality disorder.

Used to be, but aren't now. Hamas still are a terrorist organisation. They cannot accept the right of Israel to exist and live peacefully so you can't really negotiate with that sort of mentality.
 
ST4 said:
Eventually (referring to the posted bit in gold) as our Islamic population grows and their radical members drum up support the mix of the population will be predominantly Eastern/Semitic as opposed to Arian. I hope you are ready and willing to see Sharia law, Halal, Islam become the new norm and live in a regime thats more akin to whats in Saudi etc than what we have. Best practice getting up at 4am, you'll need to for when you are forced to go to morning prayer in future years once Islam becomes the new norm. Fundamentalist Islamists will stop at nothing to spread that religion here and convert people to it.
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so our currently less than 5% muslim population is going to grow to the point where they outnumber non muslims ... riiiight

experience with other cultures suggests that its actually more likely that exposure to western culture will lead to more british muslims falling away from the faith and becoming more secular (pretty much as happened with christians in the last 100 years or so) - which is the real reason why the fundamentalists are worried about the west.
 
Laudrup said:
Hamas still are a terrorist organisation. They cannot accept the right of Israel to exist and live peacefully so you can't really negotiate with that sort of mentality.
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pretty much like continuity and real IRA who don't except the right of british ulster to exist then and refuse to live peacefully - fact remains that Hamas are motivated by wanting palestine not by islam , in the same way as the ira are motivated by wanting ulster not by catholicism
 
big soft moose said:
so our currently less than 5% muslim population is going to grow to the point where they outnumber non muslims ... riiiight

experience with other cultures suggests that its actually more likely that exposure to western culture will lead to more british muslims falling away from the faith and becoming more secular (pretty much as happened with christians in the last 100 years or so) - which is the real reason why the fundamentalists are worried about the west.
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So we've got about 100years of Jihadists to look forward to...great. Extremist muslims trying to make peaceful intergrated Muslims turn bad and turn their discontented offspring into suicide bombers. Great. Muslims tend to breed larger families, a lot of westerns won't even have 1 child. Give it 50yrs and that census date (which won't, BTW include the large number of illegals/uncodumented people). A quick walk through Glasgow, Leeds, etc would lead me to believe that much more than 5% of the population is of eastern/islamic descent.
 
big soft moose said:
nope - its not plaigarism they recognise both the bible and the talmud/torah as religious texts - Christianity says that its the final word of god too , to a fundamentalist christian, the followers of islam are heretics
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http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muhammads_Plagiarism#Plagiarism_of_the_Bible

It's quite obviously plagiarism of faiths and traditions that come long before Islam. 120 years after the death of Muhammad a lot of his life was supposedly written down. For something making such big claims and claiming to be the final and last word of God it is very unconvincing.
 
ST4 said:
So we've got about 100years of Jihadists to look forward to...great. Extremist muslims trying to make peaceful intergrated Muslims turn bad and turn their discontented offspring into suicide bombers. Great. Muslims tend to breed larger families, a lot of westerns won't even have 1 child. Give it 50yrs and that census date (which won't, BTW include the large number of illegals/uncodumented people). A quick walk through Glasgow, Leeds, etc would lead me to believe that much more than 5% of the population is of eastern/islamic descent.
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That's because you look, and you see brown. You don't see true ethnicity at all.
 
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