Angry White and Thick

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tarric said:
boyfalldown said

Wow. Godwin's law and it only took 147 posts. I'm amazed it lasted so long. Maybe time for a lock now?


Ok so you don’t like the use of Hitler or the Nazi’s.


How about Pol Pot and theKhmer Rouge started with less than 200 members out of a population of around 7million.


Saddam Hussein around 1000 members of the Ba’ath party in 1959 out of a population of about 6.5 million of which only around 1.3 million were Sunni.


The point I was trying to make is that all through history there is a point that things can be stopped if good people from all sides do something about it if not history teaches us the outcome and it’s not good.
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Although I don't agree with your examples (there was lots else besides going on during all of them) I do agree with you overall point.

tarric said:
boyfalldown said

The majority of the intolerence I see today is towards normal, law abiding muslims who wish nothing more then to get on witth their lives. They view the likes of Choudary et al... in the same way as I view the likes of the Westboro Baptist Church or the average moderate Jew views the Jewish Defense League. With nothing but distain.


This is all we are all trying to do and I’m not taking sides here but what I’m talking about is the rise of radical Islam the EDL and there like are (insert own term) but when did they last behead anyone, walk into a magazine office and shoot 22 people killing 11 casually walk up to an injured policeman on the street and shoot him.
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I agree completly about radical Islam. Same as I would agree with you if you made the same point about mosgt other terrorist groups. Religously mpotivated or not. I think there is a massive danger at the moment of swamping the vast majority of peaceful muslims in the same boat as those very few radicals
 
ST4 said:
Christianity is the host religion of Britain. If you proactively practice a religion that's not ever been here, how can you truly see yourself as British?

You can live/work here without being British you know.
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OK...now you're just making things up as you go along :lol:
 
viv1969 said:
Times changed.
They changed when Christianity arrived here.
Perhaps they'll change again now with Islam.
Let's face it...Christians have been every bit as savage in their time...and still are in some ways.
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Until we all convert en mass to Islam, something I doubt will happen Islam is something that'll never be indigenous to Britain.

If it's tried to be forcably spread here, it's up to us to shut it down unless we as a whole want it
 
ST4 said:
Christianity is the host religion of Britain. If you proactively practice a religion that's not ever been here, how can you truly see yourself as British?

You can live/work here without being British you know.
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...but Islam IS here, Steve...as are other religions in addition to Christianity. It comes with the territory when you have such diversity in the population. I agree completely, that those of other faiths shouldnt try to change people who do not hold the same beliefs, but it sounds to me like that is exactly what YOU would want to happen in order for them to be able to stay here.
 
ST4 said:
Arranged marriages, honour killings, burkas.
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Are balaclavas o.k. then? They are basically the same thing.

Nikon_Nick said:
...but Islam IS here
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Indeed. And it's just as much a middle eastern religion as christianity is. I know all of the artworks and films show a western, caucasian god and Jesus but that's not quite right!


Steve.
 
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ST4 said:
Until we all convert en mass to Islam, something I doubt will happen Islam is something that'll never be indigenous to Britain.

If it's tried to be forcably spread here, it's up to us to shut it down unless we as a whole want it
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But Christianity isn't indigenous to Britain.
 
ST4 said:
Arranged marriages, honour killings, burkas. These are ones that aren't ours but ones we see in Muslim countries and now it's happening here.

Enoch Powell was right.
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Cos of course the catholic church has never done any wrong...
 
That’s what I'm trying to say the peaceful tolerant majority of all sides need to stand together or the minority radicals will take power while we just stand and do nothing. Hence my original post

“For evil men to accomplish their purpose it is only necessary that good men should do nothing.”
 
ST4 said:
It's not the only Christian institution just like not all Muslims are suicide bombers...
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But you are suggesting sanctions, actions based on the actions of a few. Should we ban all games at Celtic and Rangers as there's always trouble at those football matches? Ban the catholic church, after all they've had 52 priest defrocked in the UK in the last ten years for Child abuse (and lets face it, they are the few they've admitted...).

I don't want any of that... so by your logic...
ST4 said:
, it's up to us to shut it down unless we as a whole want it
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or does that only apply to dark skinned people with beards. I'm just trying to get a feel for just how racist you are...

You see this isn't about religion, it's about criminal acts
 
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boyfalldown said:
why? Choudary is viewed with as much disdain by the average muslim as those guys with their banners are by the average christian. You seem to be arguing he's in some way representative though. Its a perfectly vailid comparison
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A network of groups led by the Islamist preacher Anjem Choudary has become the “single biggest gateway to terrorism in recent British history”, according to a major investigation.

Groups linked to Mr Choudary have “facilitated or encouraged” up to 80 young Muslims from the UK – and 250 to 300 people from across Europe – to join al-Qa’ida-linked forces fighting President Assad in Syria, the Hope Not Hate report suggests.

The investigation also highlights links between Mr Choudary’s al-Muhajiroun network and the perpetrators of several major terrorist attacks, including the 7/7 suicide bombings in London.
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It's absurd to compare Choudary and his followers to someone wearing a sandwich board saying the end is nigh.
 
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Laudrup said:
It's absurd to compare Choudary and his followers to someone wearing a sandwich board saying the end is nigh.
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if you say so ;) I'd say its as absurd to ask for people's thoughts and then proceed to act as you are when someone gives them. I trust its OK not to share your opinion?. I suspect you want us all to be as outraged as you appear to be about a young man shouting outside a Mosque
 
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Byker28i said:
But you are suggesting sanctions, actions based on the actions of a few. Should we ban all games at Celtic and Rangers as there's always trouble at those football matches? Ban the catholic church, after all they've had 52 priest defrocked in the UK in the last ten years for Child abuse (and lets face it, they are the few they've admitted...).

I don't want any of that... so by your logic...


or does that only apply to dark skinned people with beards. I'm just trying to get a feel for just how racist you are...

You see this isn't about religion, it's about criminal acts
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You're trying to apply logic and reason....Stop it at once.
Easier (and possibly less painful) to go out back and beat your own head repeatedly with a length of 2" x 4".
 
Byker28i said:
But you are suggesting sanctions, actions based on the actions of a few. Should we ban all games at Celtic and Rangers as there's always trouble at those football matches? Ban the catholic church, after all they've had 52 priest defrocked in the UK in the last ten years for Child abuse (and lets face it, they are the few they've admitted...).

I don't want any of that... so by your logic...


or does that only apply to dark skinned people with beards. I'm just trying to get a feel for just how racist you are...
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No, what I've suggested very clearly is that if people don't like western life, western values (based on a Christian culture) then perhaps living here isn't for them, even if they were born here.

I was walking through Glasgow yesterday, there was someone setting up an Islam stall trying to spread Islam. To be fair I've not got much time for the "have you heard the message" lot but trying to spread a religion that's wholly foreign to the ways, culture of this land isn't on.

Imagine that happening in Saudi, Bible Bashers out there trying that....

Btw, since when did Islam become a race, so how can I be racist.

An analogy. You are giving me a lift, you listen to radio 4. I don't like radio 4 so I change the station to radio 2 which I like. That's not on, your car, your choice of radio. Doesbt matter if it's just you in the car with me, or my entire family. That car is yours and as such you choose the radio. A spineless git would accept it, someone with backbone would switch it back to r4.
 
ST4 said:
An analogy. You are giving me a lift, you listen to radio 4. I don't like radio 4 so I change the station to radio 2 which I like. That's not on, your car, your choice of radio. Doesbt matter if it's just you in the car with me, or my entire family. That car is yours and as such you choose the radio. A spineless git would accept it, someone with backbone would switch it back to r4.
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Lets face it, you wouldn't be giving him a lift ;)
 
Byker28i said:
But you are suggesting sanctions, actions based on the actions of a few. Should we ban all games at Celtic and Rangers as there's always trouble at those football matches? Ban the catholic church, after all they've had 52 priest defrocked in the UK in the last ten years for Child abuse (and lets face it, they are the few they've admitted...).
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And with around 1,700 deaths on the roads each year it would make perfect sense to ban cars!


Steve.
 
ST4 said:
No, what I've suggested very clearly is that if people don't like western life, western values (based on a Christian culture) then perhaps living here isn't for them, even if they were born here.
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I was born here. My western life has nothing to do with Christianity.

ST4 said:
trying to spread a religion that's wholly foreign to the ways, culture of this land isn't on.
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Like Christianity...


Steve.
 
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ST4 said:
Re read the post. He is giving the lift.

Follow the analogy and see how it relates to this thread.
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I did (y). Reread mine. Then understand. BTW is a bit of an analogy fail. It only works in your head
 
ST4 said:
No, what I've suggested very clearly is that if people don't like western life, western values (based on a Christian culture) then perhaps living here isn't for them, even if they were born here.
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I have friends living in France, there's a huge british ex-pat community around the area, which, whilst they speak small amounts of french, get on with the neighbours and mostly integrate with the villages they live in, continue to speak english, prepare food in english ways, they even have church services in english. The weather, countryside and way of life is lovely though.

is that wrong too?

Viva la difference I say. If you kick them all out, would Brick lane food be so diverse and wonderful?
 
Steve Smith said:
I was born here. My western life has nothing to do with Christianity.



Like Christianity...


Steve.
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I think like it or not Christianity has everything to do with how western life has evolved from laws, to education, the lack of slavery.

Unless that is you get up for 5am for morning prayer to face east your culture certainly isn't an Islamic one
 
All religions have done repulsive things in the name of their cause just Google religious atrocities, we have to move forward and not allow others to use this as a reason for further hatred, otherwise it just becomes a vicious cycle, therefore I absolutely agree with atheists and others who say that many atrocious things have been done in the name of God, and even in the name of religion. However, these atrocities were not perpetrated by God, but by evil human beings. If we look at the history of democide (which includes genocide, politicide, and mass murder, but not war-dead) prior to the 20th century, we find that millions of people were killed by people/ groups who wanted the other people/groups eliminated. Are these people unwilling pawns of religion or using religion to justify their own evil agendas?
 
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@ST4 Apologies if ive missed this elsewhere on the forum, but are you a religious man? Serious question btw.
 
Like it or hate it, Christianity is a Middle Eastern religion adopted (and twisted to suit their own ends) by people outside that region who couldn't be arsed to make up their own fairytales.
Had he ever existed in reality, jesus would not have looked like Robert Powell.
 
God's black anyway.

At least he is in the films I've seen

morgan-freeman.jpg
 
viv1969 said:
Like it or hate it, Christianity is a Middle Eastern religion adopted (and twisted to suit their own ends) by people outside that region who couldn't be arsed to make up their own fairytales.
Had he ever existed in reality, jesus would not have looked like Robert Powell.
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Ted Neeley?
 
fabs said:
So I would have to convert to Christianity to be considered British in your eyes?
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ST4 said:
In my eyes, yes. Or at least to embrace us not proclaim us infidels, plan to attack us, place undue demands on us.
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Nikon_Nick said:
You can stay here as long as you convert from Islam to Christianity.

Heard it all now.
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ST4 said:
I didn't actually say that, but Islam isn't the religion of Britain and nor will it be.
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Make up your mind for gods' sake.
 
Byker28i said:
I have friends living in France, there's a huge british ex-pat community around the area, which, whilst they speak small amounts of french, get on with the neighbours and mostly integrate with the villages they live in, continue to speak english, prepare food in english ways, they even have church services in english. The weather, countryside and way of life is lovely though.

is that wrong too?

Viva la difference I say. If you kick them all out, would Brick lane food be so diverse and wonderful?
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Please re read my posts and tell me where I said kick them all out.

Iirc you'll find I said

1. Guests/diversity is a good thing so long as it doesn't overwhelm or seek to overwhelm the status quo
2. Integration and adaptation of the local customs is ideally better
3. Other practices should be tolerated by hosts, including their religion and food (please tell me where I said year down mosques and ban halal) but if they become overbearing, offensive to the hosts and native culture, and not able to be accommodated it's time to move on for the guests.

If I went to live in Saudi with a few if my mates, decided that actually believing in Mohammed was akin to being an infidel, decided that pork must be available and masses of churches be built. Then a few of us decided blowing up public places in the name if Jesus our lord etc.

How do you think if that happened in Saudi how that represents my fellow countrymen?
 
ST4 said:
but if they become overbearing, offensive to the hosts and native culture, and not able to be accommodated it's time to move on for the guests.
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At that point they'd be breaking the laws in this country and so be subject to them. That's nothing about religion, culture, simply that you are governed by the laws of the country you live in. Some ban gays, some ban alcohol, some have different views on whats excessive speed (isle of man for instance) etc, etc We are all governed by the laws of that country.

It doesn't need anything else, it really doesn't. We vote for the people who make the laws, and if you don't obey them you get punished. Simples. It really doesn't need anything else.
 
I find it hard to agree with anything that ST4 says, ever - but I do find myself agreeing with parts of what he says.

For example, I visit China on business. I don't expect anyone there to speak English (although English is now taught in schools as a second language, so it isn't hard to find young educated people who can at least speak some English. It's their country, it's my responsibility to communicate with people there in a language that they can understand.

If ever I need to visit a hospital there, I won't expect them to either speak English or to provide me with an interpreter - my problem, it is I who must solve it.

But, in this country, it's the opposite. The PC brigade feel that our public services must pay for interpreters and translaters and must pay for printed materials in a host of languages that are not native to this country. I sort of don't mind that too much, but I do find it slightly offensive when, at my local hospital for example, English is nowhere near the first language on leaflets and notices.

Personally I don't see why people who choose to live in this country can choose not to learn our language, and who don't even need to because they know that we will bear the financial cost of communicating with them. I see that as racist, because English speaking people are discriminated against.
 
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