An Independent Scotland?

[fracster]

No matter the outcome of the referendum, I do wonder how long the anamosity between the two camps will take to heal.

I fear it could be a long time and will do nothing to help the Scottish people/land whichever way the vote goes.

I also wonder what will happen should the vote be yes and the plans all go horribly wrong, I hope that does not happen, but where will Scotland turn should it come to pass.

 

[arclight]

The source from which the Wikipedia article is written is here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ping-secret-non-existent-EU-legal-advice.html

It seems that Salmond asked for legal advice on Scotland's position with regard to the EU, didn't get any specific advice, and then tried to keep that quiet.

In one way it's not entirely surprising. He was clearly hoping that the legal advice would show how Scotland could retain its EU membership inherited from the UK, but it turns out that the legal issues are murky. Going public with that would play into the hands of the No campaign and their tactics of stressing the uncertainties. So it's easy to see why he wouldn't want it publicised.

But spending public money to try to keep it quiet, especially when it was presumably public money which paid for the legal advice in the first place, displays judgement which is questionable at best.

Unfortunately many politicians of all parties have a tendency to spend public money on private interests.

Which is why few trust what they all say.

Strange thing about the Wiki link I posted. Until a few days ago the EU iten and the trew and Canadian hotel items were listed separately under the heading of "Controversies". That heading has disappeared.

 

[lost]

Hi All
I wonder if anyone voting yes has considered the back lash effect of the rest of the UK after a yes vote on goods coming down from Scotland. We were having this discussion in the pub the other night and the point was raised by a scot of all people his family are Shetland based. It wasn't something I had thought about till then would I carry on buying Scottish goods after being told we weren't good enough to be partners with. Hmmmm food for thought methinks.

By the way I am proud to be part of the UK with all of its failings Brits, Irish,Scots and Welsh because we have given the world a lot working together and stood and been counted when needed against despots the world over. Is it perfect ? no is the answer could it be better yes but it needs us all to work together for a better future we have a great history and it could be even better if we stay together
But that's just my view.

 

[arclight]

No matter the outcome of the referendum, I do wonder how long the anamosity between the two camps will take to heal. etc.

.

I have always seen that as a very long standing feature and a damaging devisive feature at that.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

I think it's corrupt letting minors vote what age are they allowed to vote 16, 17 ?

I was in Dunfermline a few months ago. The youths were sitting on the steps on the cross In the high street drinking their Buckfast and Ossie White but trying to clever and subtle and hide it.... Whilst young bright pretty things in short skirts and tight tshirts were telling them how wonderful it would be to live in the new utopian world post independence. Shocking tactics and morally corrupt.

And this is of no concern to anyone?

 

[arclight]

Hi All
I wonder if anyone voting yes has considered the back lash effect of the rest of the UK after a yes vote on goods coming down from Scotland. We were having this discussion in the pub the other night and the point was raised by a scot of all people his family are Shetland based. It wasn't something I had thought about till then would I carry on buying Scottish goods after being told we weren't good enough to be partners with. Hmmmm food for thought methinks.

By the way I am proud to be part of the UK with all of its failings Brits, Irish,Scots and Welsh because we have given the world a lot working together and stood and been counted when needed against despots the world over. Is it perfect ? no is the answer could it be better yes but it needs us all to work together for a better future we have a great history and it could be even better if we stay together
But that's just my view.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-their-own-if-scotland-votes-yes-9217514.html

Who will be next to call for independence .............. maybe Wales and maybe Cornwall. Dear oh dear, what a tangled web is being woven.

 

[Steep]

It wasn't something I had thought about till then would I carry on buying Scottish goods after being told we weren't good enough to be partners with. Hmmmm food for thought methinks.

Did you stop buying French goods when the yanks were screaming about them, do you check just now if anything you're buying is Israeli? no, neither did or do most other people.

 

[Steep]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-their-own-if-scotland-votes-yes-9217514.html

Petition signed by 1177 people (worldwide) out of 22,200 population, so what was the question again?

 

[arclight]

Blank_Canvas said: ↑

I think it's corrupt letting minors vote what age are they allowed to vote 16, 17 ?

I was in Dunfermline a few months ago. The youths were sitting on the steps on the cross In the high street drinking their Buckfast and Ossie White but trying to clever and subtle and hide it.... Whilst young bright pretty things in short skirts and tight tshirts were telling them how wonderful it would be to live in the new utopian world post independence. Shocking tactics and morally corrupt.

And this is of no concern to anyone?

Especially of concern if in the next election the voting age reverts to 18. My understanding is that the 16 to 18 age group (at least in the central belt) are not especially nationalist minded. Clearly the SNP thought they would be easily stirred up. I am also concerned that Scots living in England are not getting a vote and especially the Scots who are serving their country in the armed forces who reside outside of Scotland are not getting a vote either.

I actually have a problem with letting people vote on anything when they cannot understand the issues involved. Don't know how to avoid that, but it is a serious weakness.

 

[arclight]

Petition signed by 1177 people (worldwide) out of 22,200 population, so what was the question again?

Petitions count for little. Almost everyone knows they are univerally ignored so few bother to sign them.

 

[fracster]

Did you stop buying French goods when the yanks were screaming about them, do you check just now if anything you're buying is Israeli? no, neither did or do most other people.

I won`t buy anything from France, not too bothered about most other countries, but those damned Frenchies.

 

[lost]

Did you stop buying French goods when the yanks were screaming about them, do you check just now if anything you're buying is Israeli? no, neither did or do most other people.

Actually
Steep I do my damdest to make sure when I buy things to buy items manufactured in the UK yes I do buy products from other countries
But I do check as much as possible to try to get UK goods the question is a fair one. It was interesting in the pub because 2 of the lads who drink whisky decided to try an Irish brand instead of their normal Scottish one after the debate. Actually if a country is doing something what I think of as being wrong I don't buy their items and I still haven't gone to countries on my bucket list who I feel are acting beyond the pale. I would sooner support poorer countries who are trying. There again I am probably in the minority.
Regards
Richard
P.s If Scotland does decide to go her own way she has my best wishes but I shall continue to buy from UK based firms first

 

[StewartR]

I actually have a problem with letting people vote on anything when they cannot understand the issues involved. Don't know how to avoid that, but it is a serious weakness.

Yes. It's the worst possible system, apart from all the others.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

I agree, if Scotland get their Independence and think their economy will sustain them then crack on. I would go out of my way to buy goods produced elsewhere on the principle that I don't agree with Scottish Independence.

I don't even understand how a 16 or 17 year olds vote is even legal ! I think this could even be challenged at a later date.

 

[arclight]

Actually
Steep I do my damdest to make sure when I buy things to buy items manufactured in the UK yes I do buy products from other countries
But I do check as much as possible to try to get UK goods the question is a fair one. It was interesting in the pub because 2 of the lads who drink whisky decided to try an Irish brand instead of their normal Scottish one after the debate. Actually if a country is doing something what I think of as being wrong I don't buy their items and I still haven't gone to countries on my bucket list who I feel are acting beyond the pale. I would sooner support poorer countries who are trying. There again I am probably in the minority.
Regards
Richard
P.s If Scotland does decide to go her own way she has my best wishes but I shall continue to buy from UK based firms first

I will transfer my finances from a Scottish to an English bank. BTW, the UK gov guarantee to protect savings up to £85k under the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. Will a Scottish gov do that ?

 

[gman]

I also wonder what will happen should the vote be yes and the plans all go horribly wrong, I hope that does not happen, but where will Scotland turn should it come to pass.

They'll turn to the same people who always have to bail the Governments out, those of us who work hard and pay taxes.

 

[H2O]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-their-own-if-scotland-votes-yes-9217514.html

Who will be next to call for independence .............. maybe Wales and maybe Cornwall. Dear oh dear, what a tangled web is being woven.

Not the Welsh. Even having our own assembly was a mistake. (voted for by only 25% of the population with only 0.6% lead in the results) They seem even more regionally biased than Westminster.. and less competent.

At the moment they're moving most of our essential services out of Pembrokeshire despite us having very limited road links, a big tourist industry, a power station, 2 oil refineries, 2 LNG storage depots, & probably more I'm forgetting.

Edit: Incidentally the previous vote had a higher pass requirement (needed 40% of the population to say yes as well as a lead in the voting) and was a massive failure so it's highly likely many of the non voters at the 2nd wrongly assumed it would easily go the same way so their votes didn't matter.

Whichever way the vote in Scotland goes I really hope you get a very high turnout. For me something like this should require at least 50% of the population to turn up and say yes to go through.

 

[dejongj]

I will transfer my finances from a Scottish to an English bank. BTW, the UK gov guarantee to protect savings up to £85k under the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. Will a Scottish gov do that ?

I will move some of pension arrangements as well. Even if a Scottish government would do that, would they for non residents? We don't know, but definitely one to watch.

 

[arclight]

I will move some of pension arrangements as well. Even if a Scottish government would do that, would they for non residents? We don't know, but definitely one to watch.

Thing to guard against is that if the finances get into soapy bubble you need to be sure that your bank account and income are not within raiding distance.

 

[dejongj]

Absolutely I keep my main ones in a Spanish bank

 

[Steep]

Jim Murphy got egged.

He said on Twitter "I have suspended my #indyref #100Streets tour awaiting police advice on public safety & guarentees from @YesScotland to call off their mobs."

Police Scotland say they have received no complaint from Jim Murphy nor had any request for guidance.

This is a picture of the guy who supposedly did the deed
View attachment 19598
This is the same guy.


Set up?

 

[gman]

Ear piece with direct link to Salmond? "ready sir, just say when... "

 

[Finste]

I agree, if Scotland get their Independence and think their economy will sustain them then crack on. I would go out of my way to buy goods produced elsewhere on the principle that I don't agree with Scottish Independence.

I don't even understand how a 16 or 17 year olds vote is even legal ! I think this could even be challenged at a later date.

If its a close No vote then I expect that it will be challenged. By the Yes crowd

Regards...

 

[Dave *]

I have always seen that as a very long standing feature and a damaging devisive feature at that.

And as soon as the No vote is announced, Salmond will probably play up to the Yes camp about whatever perceived injustices he decides to make up with the campaign or ballot, it'll all be blamed on England to deflect any criticism from him or the SNP.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Actually
Steep I do my damdest to make sure when I buy things to buy items manufactured in the UK yes I do buy products from other countries
But I do check as much as possible to try to get UK goods the question is a fair one. It was interesting in the pub because 2 of the lads who drink whisky decided to try an Irish brand instead of their normal Scottish one after the debate. Actually if a country is doing something what I think of as being wrong I don't buy their items and I still haven't gone to countries on my bucket list who I feel are acting beyond the pale. I would sooner support poorer countries who are trying. There again I am probably in the minority.
Regards
Richard
P.s If Scotland does decide to go her own way she has my best wishes but I shall continue to buy from UK based firms first

So they weren't in the huff about Ireland being independent then? Classic!

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

No matter the outcome of the referendum, I do wonder how long the anamosity between the two camps will take to heal.

I fear it could be a long time and will do nothing to help the Scottish people/land whichever way the vote goes.

I also wonder what will happen should the vote be yes and the plans all go horribly wrong, I hope that does not happen, but where will Scotland turn should it come to pass.

700 years?

 

[lost]

So they weren't in the huff about Ireland being independent then? Classic!

Northern Ireland is still part of the UK and Bush mills whisky is still produced there They did ask for Welsh whisky but there was none on the premises. That said if everyone leaves the UK make sure the last member turns off the light This makes an interesting read
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28743834

 

[Steep]

View attachment 19644

View attachment 19598

Not the guy after all.

 

[fracster]

FFS..it is getting like 1930s Germany. Some of the crap from both sides is bordering on downright bullying,racialist, pathetic drivel.Silly ,snidey little point scoring and all that encompasses. Some of you guys should be downright ashamed of yourselves, though I doubt that will happen.

I adore Scotland, the people and the land, don`t tear yourselves apart with silly historical crap about Bannockburn or Cullodeon. It happened centuries ago. Yes, it was wrong and the English have a lot too answer for, by God are we paying for it now, but is it really relevant what happened centuries ago in the modern world?

Is it shite.

 

[dinners]

I'm bored of it too.

Just having the referendum is proving negative.

 

[Steep]

I adore Scotland, the people and the land, don`t tear yourselves apart with silly historical crap about Bannockburn or Culloden. It happened centuries ago. Yes, it was wrong and the English have a lot too answer for, by God are we paying for it now, but is it really relevant what happened centuries ago in the modern world?

Is it shite.

I don't remember anyone bringing any of that stuff up recently, what brought on this outburst?

 

[dinners]

I don't remember anyone bringing any of that stuff up recently, what brought on this outburst?

You are in Inverness Hugh ?

I work in different offices around Scotland and the vibe varies a lot.

In Inverness (Henderson Drive) the topic is hardly a topic. Aberdeen is also fairly tame. It's like nothing is going on.

Dundee and Perth are average.

Glasgow, Fairmilehead or Dunfermline - you can cut the air with a knife. Certainly lots of pointless ancient bile stirred up.

 

[Steep]

You are in Inverness Hugh ?

I work in different offices around Scotland and the vibe varies a lot.

In Inverness (Henderson Drive) the topic is hardly a topic. Aberdeen is also fairly tame. It's like nothing is going on.

Dundee and Perth are average.

Glasgow, Fairmilehead or Dunfermline - you can cut the air with a knife. Certainly lots of pointless ancient bile stirred up.

I assume Fracster meant this thread.

Henderson drive...I worked there till two weeks ago! not surprised you didn't pick anything up, there's no one about that isn't passing at speed. Glasgow has it's own problems always has always will have.
Everyone I worked with, including one English and one Irish are pro yes, I've only met 3 people who aren't, my two neighbours (both small c tories in their 80s) and a colleague from Dundee.

 

[dinners]

I assume Fracster meant this thread.

Henderson drive...I worked there till two weeks ago!

I've not noticed any bad vibes in this thread.

As for Henderson Drive - It wasn't Scottish Water was it ?

I really like Inverness - would move like a shot if it didn't mean moving even further from loved ones.

I'm amazed you've only met 3 'No' folk.

A lot of my friends here are very anti English. I therefore expected them to be 'Yes' but they're mainly 'No'.

I'm still on the fence

 

[Steep]

G4S for my sins, shared a fence with SW though.

 

[dinners]

G4S for my sins, shared a fence with SW though.

Wish I'd known - you could have kept tabs on my Inverness smokers

 

[fracster]

I assume Fracster meant this thread.

No I didn`t mean this thread Hugh or people posting in it, I meant some of the vile nonsense being written and spoken during the referendum build up in various media outlets.

 

[lost]

No I didn`t mean this thread Hugh or people posting in it, I meant some of the vile nonsense being written and spoken during the referendum build up in various media outlets.

Hi Ade
I got where you were coming from. I also feel that both
Lots of politicians from the yes and no camps have a lot to answer for in their attempts to mislead the voters. In reality I have very little time for many politician's Darling and Salmond are not amongst any I would respect ever and the same can be said about the current crop in Westminster. Its down to the Scottish people to make their decision I hope they stay with us to get true change in any circumstances is for the people as a whole to move for change leave it to politicians and they will be the ones who come out OK and the common man will be the one left in the mire. Thinking that leaving the UK is the answer I think is wrong because it you can't achieve change in what is already there how the hell are you going to start from nothing with both sides at one another's throats. It is not a good recipe for success.

 

[Moadib]

No matter the outcome of the referendum, I do wonder how long the anamosity between the two camps will take to heal.

For those people that carry animosity, I believe they would feel that way whether or not there was a referendum. The event may give them an excuse to come out from hiding, or be quoted in a newspaper, but it didn't create them. For the remainder such as myself, there was no animosity, and will be no animosity. Indeed the reasons for independence are exactly the same reasons as English people could do better freed from those same damaging influences of government. It's far more empathy than animosity - no ill feeling toward English people whatsoever.

 

[Moadib]

Thing to guard against is that if the finances get into soapy bubble you need to be sure that your bank account and income are not within raiding distance.

That's the case across the EU.The new "bail-in" laws that force depositors to eat some bank losses are of EU origin, not UK. For an "EU citizen" it's very hard to have a bank account that's not within raiding distance, since if you do try and protect yourself it's assumed you're a nasty tax evader avoider.