An Independent Scotland?

Steep said:
Global influence in respect of what?
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In terms of anything. We'll be a small country with a small voice. Negligible influence in Europe (IF we get in) and sod all on a world stage. Being part of the UK brings benefits of scale, foreign investment and jobs, whether the Yes camp like it or not.
 
dod said:
I think it might actually be yes. I know of at least two other companies who, because of the market they're in, are saying they've no option but to relocate to England or close if the vote goes that way. I'm not sure about us, it might still be viable but we'd seriously have to consider relocating as well. Not much in the grand scheme of things maybe (about 50 degree level jobs overall) but a Yes vote isn't a vote for a guaranteed utopia.
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Unfortunately I think it will be a yes as well. Then the real mud slinging will start where it it is all the fault of Westminster and the English that a utopia Scotland can't be formed, blah blah everyone will be blamed but Scotland for the thwarted intentions and this goes on and on. It will be like a boring long drawn out process.
 
Ah!, that's a comment on #patronisingbtwoman I don't know if you'll have seen the better together campaign video featuring a supposed housewife telling her husband to shut up and eat his cereal when he wants to discuss the referendum, titled "The woman who made her mind up". It created a storm of complaint from women and spawned many spoofs and memes.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ependence-better-together-campaign-new-advert
 
Steep said:
Ah!, that's a comment on #patronisingbtwoman I don't know if you'll have seen the better together campaign video featuring a supposed housewife telling her husband to shut up and eat his cereal when he wants to discuss the referendum, titled "The woman who made her mind up". It created a storm of complaint from women and spawned many spoofs and memes.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ependence-better-together-campaign-new-advert
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Oh yes, and the subtitled version :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: ( which I think you posted here)

lovely tea / leopards :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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Steep said:
It clearly is for them, what is it about that picture that says it all to you?
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Axe this axe that evict Tories. God forbid some tough decisions will have to be made in future.

But breaking it down.
* blocking up larger council properties does not seem to make sense. Much better to switch them around. A friend of my wife did that and she loved her new one bedroom property, as does the family who is in her three bedroom property. Current government is kind and leaves the choice to the occupier. Surely a good thing.

* ATOS to blame? How about the civil servants who under labour set up these contracts and determine what the success criteria are. Always follow the contract, if ATOS didn't do what they do, they'd be in breach of contract.

Evil the Tories, great, so don't vote for them ;) simple matter of a democracy. However also take a look at how well the UK has done under the coalition compared to many other nations. Pretty darn good considering the mess that was left by the previous lot.
 
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dejongj said:
Evil the Tories, great, so don't vote for them ;) simple matter of a democracy. However also take a look at how well the UK has done under the coalition compared to many other nations. Pretty darn good considering the mess that was left by the previous lot.
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The yes campaign is made up of many diverse groups with diverse political ideal brought together by one goal, the folk in the picture would appear to be far left socialists.

You say don't like the tories? don't vote for them, that's a part of our problem, we don't vote for them but we're still stuck with them. The people who voted Lib/Dem didn't vote for the Tories, didn't vote their MPs in to form a coalition, they did that without a mandate.
Coalition doing well? so well UKIP took a major boost in votes and their own MPs are defecting. Doing so well the Scottish government has had to spend millions covering the cost of the bedroom tax they imposed. Doing so well food banks are now used by over 1 million Scots...
 
You say don't like the tories? don't vote for them, that's a part of our problem, we don't vote for them but we're still stuck with them
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I have never voted Labour, but I am stuck with them every so often.
I didn't vote to join the EU, I am stuck with it.
Even if the Yes vote win a large proportion of Scots will have voted no, if that happens they are stuck with Independence.
The Scots will, if they become independent will be stuck with silly labour style Governments, a large number of those Scots will not have voted for them.
It's called democracy.
What are you going to do if you don't get the Government you want in Scotland, campaign for Independence for Glasgow? Form the Aberdeen Independence Party? Or perhaps start the number 26 Salmond Ave Liberation Front?
 
dod said:
Nationalist deceit?

suppose it's just another spin on it.
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No quite sure where the Nationalist bit comes in but can I just point this bit out.. "Ruairi Quinn, an Irish politician, said the secessionist movements in both countries [Belgium and Spain] meant it was "highly probable" their parliaments would vote against Scotland joining."

And answer it with something I've posted before, Spain's Foreign Minister said on BBC Scotland2014 "Spain has no interest in blocking Scottish membership of the EU."
 
I wonder if food and clothing vouchers were issued instead of cash benefits so that booze, fags, drugs etc couldn't be purchased then would we see a significant drop in people reliant on food banks? I certainly know what I see with my own eyes.
 
gman said:
I wonder if food and clothing vouchers were issued instead of cash benefits so that booze, fags, drugs etc couldn't be purchased then would we see a significant drop in people reliant on food banks? I certainly know what I see with my own eyes.
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It's been considered and thought of as unworkable, the vouchers themselves become a currency and just hurt the poor even worse, what happens is the recipient sells it for 60p-70p in the pound, even happened with the milk vouchers in the past.

Just hurts those it was designed to protect, the adult still gets their fags, the children get even cheaper (or less) food.
 
Steep said:
No quite sure where the Nationalist bit comes in "
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Comes from this quote

Douglas Alexander, the shadow foreign secretary, said: "That it is taking outsiders like Mr Quinn to tell Scots the truth on issues like the EU is testament to the deceit of the Nationalist campaign."
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You'll note I've got a question mark against it, I'm not saying it is or isn't.
 
Dave1 said:
It's been considered and thought of as unworkable, the vouchers themselves become a currency and just hurt the poor even worse, what happens is the recipient sells it for 60p-70p in the pound, even happened with the milk vouchers in the past.

Just hurts those it was designed to protect, the adult still gets their fags, the children get even cheaper (or less) food.
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I believe it was more because it would embarrass them and along came the human rights.

Of course anything can be abused but if it were a card, like a nectar card, and say which had their photo on it then it would help reduce fraud or make it harder. They will always be able to sell on the goods but some responsibly has to be put on them at the end of the day. Having direct access to cash is never going to be good.
 
Still there's no fact in that piece, (it's opinion) despite Douglas Alexander trying to make out there is.
 
1, he paid it back
2, he wasn't lying
3. he didn't book it
4, umm yes ok
5, astrology, seriously?? oohhh my god he's a Capricorn call the whole thing off!!!!

I'm sure there must be something even more childish out there somewhere but damned if I've ever seen it.
 
Steep said:
1, he paid it back
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only because he was found out.

Steep said:
2, he wasn't lying
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So you're happy for your first minister to call us a nation of drunks? :LOL:

Steep said:
3. he didn't book it
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He didn't HAVE to stay there and it's not unreasonable to think that he might have been involved in the selection anyway. I know if I'm going anywhere the girl who books it will ask "Is this one okay?"

Steep said:
I'm sure there must be something even more childish out there somewhere but damned if I've ever seen it.
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Now that's scraping the barrel :D
To be honest, I dislike all politicians of all colours. I think they're all the same, money grabbing, self interested parasites who should be disqualified from standing by virtue of the fact that they put themselves forward. Bit of a generalisation I know but close enough ;)
 
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Re Nation of drunks, that's not what he said, he said Scotland had a problem with alcohol and he was/is right, Scotland does, at the same time he said we're working to fix it, but that bit doesn't make good copy for the naysayers so it gets left out.
 
I don't disagree about politicians, one major flaw with all our current crop is that they all came up through the twisted self serving Westminster school of politics. That's something an indy Scotland can fix, remember that just because Alex Salmond is the First Minister now doesn't mean he'll always be.
 
Steep said:
I don't disagree about politicians, one major flaw with all our current crop is that they all came up through the twisted self serving Westminster school of politics. That's something an indy Scotland can fix, remember that just because Alex Salmond is the First Minister now doesn't mean he'll always be.
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In my 28 years of being able to vote, I've only voted once (and they didn't win :ROFLMAO:). I don't complain about who is in government and don't have the right to by not voting. Over the years I have been no worse or better off under either of the two parties in power, it seems the working man always ends up paying whoever gets in. If Scotland does go independant, it will still be the politicians who make the decisions, it will be the politicians who raise taxes and decide they are worthy of an inflation busting wage rise that they vote for themselves. It will also be the politicians who make the rules and take Scotland in the direction they want, not the voter. All the voters will get, is to cast a vote and hope their chosen party wins and doesn't screw them over.

I'm sure you'll just say this is the WM way of politics, but I will be highly surprised if the Scottish politicians will be much different.
 
andy0306 said:
I'm sure you'll just say this is the WM way of politics, but I will be highly surprised if the Scottish politicians will be much different.
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Prepare to be surprised! ;)
 
Steep said:
Re Nation of drunks, that's not what he said, he said Scotland had a problem with alcohol and he was/is right, Scotland does, at the same time he said we're working to fix it, but that bit doesn't make good copy for the naysayers so it gets left out.
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That's exactly what he said.

"My argument is that if you are promoting it as authentic and of great worth, you cannot promote it from a nation of drunks. You’ll never be able to say it is healthy and life giving, but you can say it’s authentic and high quality," he said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...d-scotland-is-a-nation-of-drunks-9313434.html


Steep said:

Prepare to be surprised! ;)
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Not a chance, they're ALL the same, and it's due to the old power corrupts analogy.
 
I think it's corrupt letting minors vote what age are they allowed to vote 16, 17 ?

I was in Dunfermline a few months ago. The youths were sitting on the steps on the cross In the high street drinking their Buckfast and Ossie White but trying to clever and subtle and hide it.... Whilst young bright pretty things in short skirts and tight tshirts were telling them how wonderful it would be to live in the new utopian world post independence. Shocking tactics and morally corrupt.
 
dod said:
That's exactly what he said.

"My argument is that if you are promoting it as authentic and of great worth, you cannot promote it from a nation of drunks. You’ll never be able to say it is healthy and life giving, but you can say it’s authentic and high quality," he said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...d-scotland-is-a-nation-of-drunks-9313434.html



Not a chance, they're ALL the same, and it's due to the old power corrupts analogy.
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Perhaps I'm remembering the clarification, not that it matters, he was still right.
 
Steep said:
Perhaps I'm remembering the clarification, not that it matters, he was still right.
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So the means justifies the end, you're really a Tory at heart :p
 
Keith W said:
The sinister side of the Yes campaign
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You get numpties on both sides.

Sadly - I've met folk who have defaulted to 'yes' because they've honestly got it into their heads that it's some kind of Scotland v England thing.
 
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I have been subjected to more racism and other anti English sentiment in the last few weeks then I ever have in my entire life

And yes I do appreciate there are numpties on both sides, that doesn't make it right or acceptable though
 
Steep said:
1, he paid it back
2, he wasn't lying
3. he didn't book it
4, umm yes ok
5, astrology, seriously?? oohhh my god he's a Capricorn call the whole thing off!!!!

I'm sure there must be something even more childish out there somewhere but damned if I've ever seen it.
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I think of more concern is:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Salmond

Scroll down to Second term

Last para re alleged legal advice on the EU
 
Keith W said:
I have been subjected to more racism and other anti English sentiment in the last few weeks then I ever have in my entire life

And yes I do appreciate there are numpties on both sides, that doesn't make it right or acceptable though
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It's not acceptable at all. Unfortunately it only takes a handful of idiots like that to create a bad impression.
 
Keith W said:
I have been subjected to more racism and other anti English sentiment in the last few weeks then I ever have in my life
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That's because the English are the enemy and should the vote be No then all the Yes supporters are going to bear arms against the English, even though being slightly outnumbered.

If the vote is Yes then all conspirators will be rounded up and because England are the enemy then all trade with them will stop. Whoops, now that wouldn't be smart...
 
arclight said:
I think of more concern is:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Salmond

Scroll down to Second term

Last para re alleged legal advice on the EU
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The source from which the Wikipedia article is written is here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ping-secret-non-existent-EU-legal-advice.html

It seems that Salmond asked for legal advice on Scotland's position with regard to the EU, didn't get any specific advice, and then tried to keep that quiet.

In one way it's not entirely surprising. He was clearly hoping that the legal advice would show how Scotland could retain its EU membership inherited from the UK, but it turns out that the legal issues are murky. Going public with that would play into the hands of the No campaign and their tactics of stressing the uncertainties. So it's easy to see why he wouldn't want it publicised.

But spending public money to try to keep it quiet, especially when it was presumably public money which paid for the legal advice in the first place, displays judgement which is questionable at best.

Unfortunately many politicians of all parties have a tendency to spend public money on private interests.
 
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