Amy Winehouse Found Dead.

[boyfalldown]

So, how does this work ?

it doesn't at least not according to that explanation. Hyper-Hydration is possible but due to physiological changes as a result of drinking way to much water brain cells swell causing cerebral edema, which may in itself interfere with blood flow (certainly not diluting it). Cerebral edema has other ways of killing you first.

If ecstasy kills you, it does so do causing you to overheat

 

[big soft moose]

it doesn't at least not according to that explanation. Hyper-Hydration is possible but due to physiological changes as a result of drinking way to much water brain cells swell causing cerebral edema, which may in itself interfere with blood flow (certainly not diluting it). Cerebral edema has other ways of killing you first.

If ecstasy kills you, it does so do causing you to overheat

Not necessarily - that is one reason for ecstacy deaths but not the only one
(others include poisoning from stuff its cut with, dehydration, over hydration, people making rash decision while under the influence etc)

and dilution/over hydration is an issue because you are right that the brain cells swell, but the reason they swell is due to a disruption of the concentration of electrolites in the blood and thus the osmotic processes across the blood/brain barier.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Did you read the rest of my post? The bits that mention the purity of the illegal drug? If they've taken too much and died then it hasn't been taken in moderation. Just because they were ignorant of the purity of the drug doesn't excuse the fact that they've overdone it. I'm not saying it's their fault, but the fact is that they haven't used it in moderation.

In that case you're contradicting yourself, as there is no way of taking such drugs "in moderation"....

 

[GrittyShaker]

In that case you're contradicting yourself, as there is no way of taking such drugs "in moderation"....

Of course there is, if you've had the same drug from the same source before, or you know somebody else that has.

I've got some homebrew at home. It's my first batch. If I pass out or vomit after four bottles then I know just to have three bottles next time.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Of course there is, if you've had the same drug from the same source before, or you know somebody else that has.

Nonsense, we're not talking about McDonalds here,the strength of one pill or wrap can vary wildly from the next. Even assuming the pills (in the case of ecstasy) came from the same dealer, there is no guarantee that they came from the same batch, or even the same source as the one you may have bought from him the day before.

 

[boyfalldown]

Not necessarily - that is one reason for ecstacy deaths but not the only one
(others include poisoning from stuff its cut with, dehydration, over hydration, people making rash decision while under the influence etc)

and dilution/over hydration is an issue because you are right that the brain cells swell, but the reason they swell is due to a disruption of the concentration of electrolites in the blood and thus the osmotic processes across the blood/brain barier.

your so nearly right, except its fluid (not blood) that causes the issue,cerebral fluid (CSF) is far more involved then anything else, but also extra cellular fluid, in this case.Although vascular CE can happen it doesn't in the case of hyper -hydration. Cerebral edema normally interupts blood flow.

Ecstasy kills by over heating. Simple as that. he other things you mentioned are either symptomatic of that, or not really relevant (behaviour for example, same could be said of many, many things)

 

[GrittyShaker]

Nonsense, we're not talking about McDonalds here,the strength of one pill or wrap can vary wildly from the next. Even assuming the pills (in the case of ecstasy) came from the same dealer, there is no guarantee that they came from the same batch, or even the same source as the one you may have bought from him the day before.

Which brings us neatly onto...

If the government legalised and regulated illegal substances we would have a lot fewer cases of people dying as a result of taking them recreationally.

Having said that, I've not used (or even seen) any Heroin before, but have taken more Es than I could possibly remember when I was in my late teens and early twenties. I don't know what your experience of them is, but it is incredibly easy to differentiate between one batch and the next, in terms of colour, size, pattern, etc. Very easy to see one and know you've had one before, and that is backed up by the effect it has once it's taken. Despite what the DM might have people believe, dealers aren't in the habit of deliberately killing their customers, by and large.

Incidentally, I would take any E over a McDonalds.

 

[cambsno]

This (in bold) is incredibly misleading. Heroin and Ecstasy, in moderation (certainly not one hit, or pill), will not kill a person, and are chemically no more dangerous than alcohol and tobacco. You can OD on Heroin, same as you can on alcohol. You can OD on E, same as you can on alcohol.

The instances you see in the news, about people dying from a hit of Heroin, are because they have used a dirty needle, injected too much (as the purity of Heroin bought from a street dealer is never known), etc.

People who have died from a tab of E haven't died because of the MDMA content. They've either taken too many, let themselves get dehydrated, or they've simply bought a dodgy one with dodgy chemicals in it (again, the purity of Ecstasy can never be guaranteed when bought from a street dealer).

I'm not condoning the actual abuse of substances, but in moderation they probably do less harm than alcohol and tobacco. If the government legalised and regulated illegal substances we would have a lot fewer cases of people dying as a result of taking them recreationally.

Leah Betts took 1 tab as far as I recall...

If you drink a glass of wine a day you will do no harm to your body - if anything it may help!! Even if you drink from a dirty glass or drink a corked bottle you will not die. You could take a moderate dose of heroin or ecstasy just the once and die and that is a fact. Ok, death could come from the dirty needle or added chemicals but the fact is that if you have 1 drink you wont die, you wont get dehydrated, and if you take heroin you could die. Even smoking... we all know it kills, but generally not for at least 20 years, even if you smoke 60 fags in 1 day it is probably impossible to die.

 

[GrittyShaker]

Leah Betts took 1 tab as far as I recall...

If you drink a glass of wine a day you will do no harm to your body - if anything it may help!! Even if you drink from a dirty glass or drink a corked bottle you will not die. You could take a moderate dose of heroin or ecstasy just the once and die and that is a fact. Ok, death could come from the dirty needle or added chemicals but the fact is that if you have 1 drink you wont die, you wont get dehydrated, and if you take heroin you could die. Even smoking... we all know it kills, but generally not for at least 20 years, even if you smoke 60 fags in 1 day it is probably impossible to die.

Sorry, but Leah Betts died because she drank too much water. See the posts about water intoxication above. It wasn't the fault of the drug.

I'm talking (perhaps hypothetically, because of the way the illegal drug trade works) about untainted drugs. My final paragraph sums it up really. If the drugs are clean, and can be taken with knowledge of the dosage, then they are no more dangerous than controlled drugs like alcohol and tobacco. You would not die from a correctly dosed and delivered hit of Heroin, in the same way that you do not die from drinking one bottle of government approved beer or a glass of wine.

 

[big soft moose]

Ecstasy kills by over heating. Simple as that. he other things you mentioned are either symptomatic of that, or not really relevant (behaviour for example, same could be said of many, many things)

except that its not that simple - people die (ocassionally) after taking ecstacy without the frenetic dancing etc that causes the hyperthermia

potential causes include strychniene poisoning - ecstacy (and speed and cocaine for that matter) are often cut with strychniene (and anyone who thinks E cant be cut because its in tablet form is dangerously naive- the powder is cut before it is compressed into tablets)

alergies either to the MDMA itself or more likely to the cut,

overhydration as discussed - and as per grittyshakers post this is what killed leah betts - and as to the semantics about cerebal fluid you are right, but how do you think the water reaches the cerebal fluid from the stomach - it is conveyed in the blood.

impaired judgement and accident - such as trying to drive a car while still out of your head , ecstacy doesnt usually cause problems for driving per se (as in spatial disorientation and blurred vision etc), but it can cause you to think you are capable when you arent such as as a result of other drug intake. Claiming that this is irrelevant to E compsumption is like claiming that alcohol consumption has no relevance to death caused by drunk driving

and lastly the risk of taking something other than E because dealers arent usually known for their high moral standards many will rip people off with vitamin pills etc which are at least harmless but there are also records of people unkowingly purchasing and consuming all manner of medicinal tablets many of which have effects on those who shouldnt be taking them

 

[DemiLion]

Leah Betts took 1 tab as far as I recall...

If you drink a glass of wine a day you will do no harm to your body - if anything it may help!! Even if you drink from a dirty glass or drink a corked bottle you will not die. You could take a moderate dose of heroin or ecstasy just the once and die and that is a fact. Ok, death could come from the dirty needle or added chemicals but the fact is that if you have 1 drink you wont die, you wont get dehydrated, and if you take heroin you could die. Even smoking... we all know it kills, but generally not for at least 20 years, even if you smoke 60 fags in 1 day it is probably impossible to die.

What about a bottle of vodka that's 50% cleaning fluid, a bottle of wine laced with anti-freeze or a bottle of beer that's 100% pipe cleaner?

 

[Grizu]

The fact that Leah Betts died in 1995 and the fact that it is still being used today as a test case of classic one time drug taking highlights the infrequency of cases like hers. Its not a result of taking the drug that killed her, it was her reactions after realising something was wrong. How many teenagers since have been killed by falling, fighting, driving, jumping of things while under the effects of alcohol, a huge amount I imagine, not to mention those who have actually died as a direct consequence of ingesting alcohol.

 

[big soft moose]

Leah Betts took 1 tab as far as I recall...

If you drink a glass of wine a day you will do no harm to your body - if anything it may help!! Even if you drink from a dirty glass or drink a corked bottle you will not die. You could take a moderate dose of heroin or ecstasy just the once and die and that is a fact. Ok, death could come from the dirty needle or added chemicals but the fact is that if you have 1 drink you wont die, you wont get dehydrated, and if you take heroin you could die. Even smoking... we all know it kills, but generally not for at least 20 years, even if you smoke 60 fags in 1 day it is probably impossible to die.

thing is if you have one glass of good quality alcohol from a trustworthy source , you wont die - if you have a glass of adulterated hooch (not a problem in the uk but in russia and some other parts of the world there is a major problem with stuff like methanol, torpedo fuel, even sulphuric acid being sold as bootleg alcohol) you could well suffer ill effects

and the same is true of most drugs - one tab of E composed purely of MDMA and a safe base wont hurt you (unless you are unfortunate enough to be alergic to it - something that also applies to alcohol and any other substance) but one hit cut with strychneine, or one hit which is actually dodgy speed etc might well do you harm.

 

[GrittyShaker]

thing is if you have one glass of good quality alcohol from a trustworthy source , you wont die - if you have a glass of adulterated hooch (not a problem in the uk but in russia and some other parts of the world there is a major problem with stuff like methanol, torpedo fuel, even sulphuric acid being sold as bootleg alcohol) you could well suffer ill effects

and the same is true of most drugs - one tab of E composed purely of MDMA and a safe base wont hurt you (unless you are unfortunate enough to be alergic to it - something that also applies to alcohol and any other substance) but one hit cut with strychneine, or one hit which is actually dodgy speed etc might well do you harm.

That's what I've been trying to say. Why couldn't I have just written this? :bonk: Must be all the Es from my youth.

 

[DemiLion]

thing is if you have one glass of good quality alcohol from a trustworthy source , you wont die - if you have a glass of adulterated hooch (not a problem in the uk ...

You'd like to think so wouldn't you?

Unfortunately that's not the case.

 

[boyfalldown]

overhydration as discussed - and as per grittyshakers post this is what killed leah betts - and as to the semantics about cerebal fluid you are right, but how do you think the water reaches the cerebal fluid from the stomach - it is conveyed in the blood.

OK then I'll bow to what you think is your far superior and wrong knowledge. Last time blood was the only fluid involved though, remember?

=

and dilution/over hydration is an issue because you are right that the brain cells swell, but the reason they swell is due to a disruption of the concentration of electrolites in the blood and thus the osmotic processes across the blood/brain barier.

 

[ding76uk]

You'd like to think so wouldn't you?

Unfortunately that's not the case.

As 5 dead people and their booze factory here in Lincs proves.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Having said that, I've not used (or even seen) any Heroin before, but have taken more Es than I could possibly remember when I was in my late teens and early twenties. I don't know what your experience of them is, but it is incredibly easy to differentiate between one batch and the next, in terms of colour, size, pattern, etc. Very easy to see one and know you've had one before, and that is backed up by the effect it has once it's taken. Despite what the DM might have people believe, dealers aren't in the habit of deliberately killing their customers, by and large.

Incidentally, I would take any E over a McDonalds.

Again, you're displaying an incredible level of naivety, unless of course, all of the ecstasy you took in your youth came from the same batch, which I find hard to believe. Otherwise every time you first took a tablet from a new batch you would have NO way of knowing what effects it could have on your body....

 

[Flash In The Pan]

The fact that Leah Betts died in 1995 and the fact that it is still being used today as a test case of classic one time drug taking highlights the infrequency of cases like hers. Its not a result of taking the drug that killed her, it was her reactions after realising something was wrong. How many teenagers since have been killed by falling, fighting, driving, jumping of things while under the effects of alcohol, a huge amount I imagine, not to mention those who have actually died as a direct consequence of ingesting alcohol.

If you want to be pedantic, no-one dies from the direct ingestion of drugs, or indeed alcohol, everyone and I mean everyone, ultimately dies because their heart stops.....

 

[Gremlin]

What I find sad is her father is now say she was off drugs and alcohol at the moment, making a real attempt to get clean
If that is found to be true then it is a real tragedy that the damage she did too her body was too much for her survival

 

[GrittyShaker]

Again, you're displaying an incredible level of naivety, unless of course, all of the ecstasy you took in your youth came from the same batch, which I find hard to believe. Otherwise every time you first took a tablet from a new batch you would have NO way of knowing what effects it could have on your body....

You're just not reading my posts properly. I didn't have a clue what effect they would have on my body each time I tried a design I hadn't tried before. I never once said I did. I just took a gamble, knowing that pretty much all deaths associated with E were a result of the ignorance of users. We're not discussing just my behaviour though, are we? If I was a different person with a different attitude, had I wanted to, I could have refused some that I had tried before if I had decided I didn't like them. It happened once. Very small, speckled ones, with an indentation in one side in a sort of oval shape. I wasn't keen on their effects so never bought them again. I was very much a "try anything once" person.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

You're just not reading my posts properly. I didn't have a clue what effect they would have on my body each time I tried a design I hadn't tried before. I never once said I did. I just took a gamble, knowing that pretty much all deaths associated with E were a result of the ignorance of users. We're not discussing just my behaviour though, are we? If I was a different person with a different attitude, had I wanted to, I could have refused some that I had tried before if I had decided I didn't like them. It happened once. Very small, speckled ones, with an indentation in one side in a sort of oval shape. I wasn't keen on their effects so never bought them again. I was very much a "try anything once" person.

Are you actually reading any of your own previous posts before composing your replies?

 

[GrittyShaker]

Yawn. You remind me of someone on another forum I use who isn't happy unless he's arguing.

I had one main point to make. It's in my first post on the matter, that you kindly quoted out of context.

We don't know what's in a particular illegal substance, and until we either try it, watch a friend try it, or converse with a friend about it, we won't know what effect it may have on us. However, in the case of E it is quite easy to identify one that you've tried before. The only way around it would be to decriminalise and regulate these substances. It's never going to happen, but it would save a shedload of users from an untimely death. Incidentally, we may know what's in booze, but if we haven't tried it, seen anyone try it, or spoken to someone about it, we wouldn't know what effect that had either.

Now I'm off to enjoy my evening with a few beers, which are the reason I'm fat now and wasn't when I took E.

Go find someone else to argue with.

 

[Bernie174]

While there's a great deal of truth in the suggestion that if intoxicating liquor or tobacco were discovered today, they would never be permitted for sale. But they are, and for a very long time in such quantities it would not be acceptable to the public to withdraw them.

Its also true that for most people, alcoholic drink causes them no problem in life. Its excess use that is the issue. In the main, its more of a problem now than it ever has been for reasons below. Cigarettes probably do after prolonged use cause health issues, but there's no immediate damage. In very low quantities they probably wont be the cause of your death. A lot of smokers die from things unconnected with smoking. Just as a lot of non smokers, who have never had that much if any exposure to smoking die of things regarded as smoking related. Lung cancer and heart disease existed long before tobacco.

The drugs that have never been legal, or have been made illegal usually do you more harm in the shorter term., and thats the reason why they remain illegal.

Yes, I'm sure the pro drug lobby will come out in defence of them, but do your research, why were the Morphine Dens closed down and opiates made illegal? The attempt to allow that family of drugs to be legal has been done and failed. As did the downgrading of cannabis, which was a short lived experiment doomed from the start, and driven by those that had no experience of reality.

The same could, and frankly should be said for the extended availability of alcohol and I agree with many of the comments here. Try being a Policeman on a Friday and Saturday night in most reasonable sized towns. The cause there is very simple, the extended availability. Labours Cafe culture was again doomed before it started.

I've dealt the the stinking mess that was left after someone died of a drugs overdose. I've also had to fight 10 rounds with a cannabis addict, whose love of that particular weed had sent him loopy, not my opinion, that of a panel of shrinks. I've seen people go from being well off achievers descend to the pits of humanity through a desire to feed themselves yet another syringe full of crap.

I've heard the arguments about legalisation, and they don't hold water. Do those who advocate that really think that what is a multi million £ industry would suddenly give up?
Of course it wont! They'll just deal more to those who can't for reasons of condition of sale of legal drugs get their hands on it. Undercutting 'approved' suppliers is simple when you aren't paying tax, and can cut what you sell with anything the right colour and consistency.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Yawn. You remind me of someone on another forum I use who isn't happy unless he's arguing.

I had one main point to make. It's in my first post on the matter, that you kindly quoted out of context.

We don't know what's in a particular illegal substance, and until we either try it, watch a friend try it, or converse with a friend about it, we won't know what effect it may have on us. However, in the case of E it is quite easy to identify one that you've tried before.

That's my whole point, you have NO WAY of knowing what's in any of these things, regardless of whether you've seen or used a tablet that looked the same. Ergo you have NO WAY of knowing whether it will be harmful to you or not.

One positive point of your posts has been to demonstrate the effect lasting effects of substance abuse

 

[GrittyShaker]

That's my whole point, you have NO WAY of knowing what's in any of these things, regardless of whether you've seen or used a tablet that looked the same. Ergo you have NO WAY of knowing whether it will be harmful to you or not.

One positive point of your posts has been to demonstrate the effect lasting effects of substance abuse

Amy was a substance abuser, and it has (pending the PM results) cost her her life. I was a casual user (not of the same substances, of course), it cost me less than a night out drinking alcohol each time, and I guarantee you I had more fun than the neanderthals spending the night fighting, and vomiting in a gutter.

The effect lasting effects? If you're going to insult me, at least do so coherently. At least I've got an excuse to type rubbish, apparently.

Bernie, I understand that opium and morphine are both addictive, as is crack, and it's one of the reasons I would touch none of them, either now or back then. Without doing the research, isn't that the reason for their prohibition? Excessive abuse of anything isn't good, and of course addiction can easily lead to that.

I would be interested to hear your experiences with the recreational Ecstasy user, and whether you've had any real trouble. Honestly, I can't imagine for a second that you would have a violent confrontation, and I would expect that any hospitalisations would be the result of a factor other than the necking of the pill, whether it related to taking the drug or not (as per Leah Betts).

Anyway, the thread is about Amy, her unfortunate addiction, and her untimely death, which as far as I'm aware didn't relate to E. I've gone off on a slight tangent because of the blinkered views of a select few.

 

[nilagin]

Thank you for bringing a sense of reality to this discussion as it is very much needed, Ive been reading this thread as it gained momentum, sometimes dipping into the absurd but you have nailed a point that has so far been skimmed over. We nearly all "self medicate" to get away from problems, detach ourselves from the mundane or just because we feel like it.

Making a distinction between drugs and drink because of the legality of each is, as put before " unintelligent" and ultimately wrong.

Anyone who thinks otherwise please visit your local A and E at about 1am on a Friday night and see the real problems "drugs" cause, some illegal but most legal.

The only self medication I take is hitting the gym 7 times a week and taking life as I find it, without enhancement.

 

[nilagin]

Having said that, I've not used (or even seen) any Heroin before, but have taken more Es than I could possibly remember when I was in my late teens and early twenties.

I know someone who did the same and he now suffers serious mood swings, paranoia and struggles with rational thought.

 

[ziggy©]

if we're being technical more opium cames out of afghan provinces that are under the control of the northern aliance aka the Afghan national army - so you could make a case that junkies are actually helping the war effort.

and consider this - al qaeda and associated groups are virtually entirely funded by rich arabs with oil money - so you could just as easily say that everytime you fill up your car you are helping kill british soilders

Brilliant!

 

[nilagin]

Yawn. You remind me of someone on another forum I use who isn't happy unless he's arguing.

I had one main point to make. It's in my first post on the matter, that you kindly quoted out of context.

We don't know what's in a particular illegal substance, and until we either try it, watch a friend try it, or converse with a friend about it, we won't know what effect it may have on us. However, in the case of E it is quite easy to identify one that you've tried before. The only way around it would be to decriminalise and regulate these substances. It's never going to happen, but it would save a shedload of users from an untimely death. Incidentally, we may know what's in booze, but if we haven't tried it, seen anyone try it, or spoken to someone about it, we wouldn't know what effect that had either.

Now I'm off to enjoy my evening with a few beers, which are the reason I'm fat now and wasn't when I took E.

Go find someone else to argue with.

So once decriminalised, how do you propose to regulate it. If someone wants more, they will get more, from whatever source they can find.

 

[Splog]

So once decriminalised, how do you propose to regulate it. If someone wants more, they will get more, from whatever source they can find.

Simple.... Make it available over the counter in the local shop, chippie, newsagents or whatever.... same as fags and beer :shrug:

 

[littlemonster]

Hmmm, jumping in...

The issue for me with addiction is that it's basically a series of bad choices. Nobody needs to snort cocain - I do have sympathy for those who have ended up addicted to painkillers etc that were prescribed for a problem. I just fail to have much for junkies or alcoholics who started due to free will.

To be honest here, I suffer from depression, and asides from the fact it reacts with antidepressents, I don't drink regularly as I know it'd be all too easy for me to rely on it. The amounts I do have are small enough to not cause a buzz and are only for the flavour.

I just don't think it's not someones fault - the addiction may not be choice, but taking an addictive substance is.


And yes I'm aware that overeating, unhealthy food, adrenaline sports, hell driving a car are all choices that can lead to illnesses, but to since extent most are needed. Maybe skydiving isn't, but people have been injured playing football too, and doing no sport isn't good for you either.


Also, my views may be illogical to some people, but we can't all think the same can we

I've lost a few family members, including my mum at 42 to illnesses of bad luck though, so I'm probably biassed due to that, when they have a choice and so many people don't. Like I said - illogical!



(Also, tempting fate I know, but 16 pages and godwin's law hasn't come into effect! Impressive tp people.)

 

[Photo Plod]

Simple.... Make it available over the counter in the local shop, chippie, newsagents or whatever.... same as fags and beer :shrug:

So the criminal dealers we have today will just pack up & go?

 

[GrittyShaker]

I know someone who did the same and he now suffers serious mood swings, paranoia and struggles with rational thought.

Well done. I know a certain nutcase bodybuilder who became a Californian governor, that, as far as I'm aware, has never been capable of rational thought. Oh, hang on, he took drugs as well. Damn. My mistake. I hope people don't follow in his footsteps, though I fear we're too late.

"Gym seven times a week, without enhancement." Gym seven times a week is enhancement, whichever way you cut it.

 

[GrittyShaker]

So the criminal dealers we have today will just pack up & go?

I think he was being inappropriately facetious based on my comments. I'm not proud of my recreational drug usage, but I am much more proud of my knowledge of it than I would be of my flight knowledge, if it matched his own understanding.

I still want to hear about the dangers that ecstasy users pose to civilians.

 

[AndyJ1980]

can't believe this is still going...been interesting reading people's views though

 

[nilagin]

Simple.... Make it available over the counter in the local shop, chippie, newsagents or whatever.... same as fags and beer :shrug:

But that is not regulating it to stop people getting more to overdose though is it. That just means a user would just as likely get a standard controlled dose and I'd assume cheaper than getting it off a dealer on the streets. Also it still won't eradicate the under age users, who don't seem to have much trouble getting hold of drink or fags either.

 

[nilagin]

Well done. I know a certain nutcase bodybuilder who became a Californian governor, that, as far as I'm aware, has never been capable of rational thought. Oh, hang on, he took drugs as well. Damn. My mistake. I hope people don't follow in his footsteps, though I fear we're too late.

"Gym seven times a week, without enhancement." Gym seven times a week is enhancement, whichever way you cut it.

Bodybuilding with use of steroids is enhancement. Natural bodybuilding with improved diet is not, hence the word "natural". I have no use for steroids for two reasons. I have no intention of competing and also just as with drugs, alcohol, and fags, they have no interest for me, I don't need them. Just the fact that you walk builds muscle in your legs, that's not enhancement is it? All I do is train all the muscles in my body with the use of weights as well as cardio exercise to maintain fitness and health. Because of my body shape/ability, that results in muscle growth and tone, more so than some others are capable of. Other than alcohol quenching a thirst, alcohol, drugs and fags have no use than the state of mind they may produce.

 

[Bernie174]

Nilagin

Thats the problem, approving and allowing legal drug supply is not going to result in a lower than dealer price. Not unless those that support legalisation think that those of us that chose not to use that sort of drug should subsidise the cost for those that do.

If you are dealing illegally, you don't have a tax burden, you don't have purity issues and you don't have to worry about accounts. It's one of the many practical issues that are ignored by the legalise lobby.

 

[nilagin]

I still want to hear about the dangers that ecstasy users pose to civilians.

First we'd have to know how ecstacy can effect the user. As I have no intention of taking any and you have past experience perhaps you could enlighten us. But then you can only pass on the drug induced version of how it has had an effect on you. This may well be different to how it really effects you at the time. Your perceptions of how great you felt could obviously be way off the mark to your actual state.