Amateur Photography Costs

Suarez85 said:
Learning from my mistakes (fast)
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Which is good. Just make sure you take everything people tell you with a pinch of salt. Do your own research and learning, and, importantly, think about what you want to do with your photos.

Already in this thread, you have received some ridiculous replies in response to your request for critique (and some decent ones). The danger when starting out, and asking for critique online, is that people often try to railroad you in to doing what they think is right, and you may not have the experience to recognise when they're talking b*****ks.

Have fun! :thumbs:
 
Jayst84 said:
Which is good. Just make sure you take everything people tell you with a pinch of salt. Do your own research and learning, and, importantly, think about what you want to do with your photos.

Already in this thread, you have received some ridiculous replies in response to your request for critique (and some decent ones). The danger when starting out, and asking for critique online, is that people often try to railroad you in to doing what they think is right, and you may not have the experience to recognise when they're talking b*****ks.

Have fun! (y)
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Indeed! At the end of the day as long as the people who are parting with their money for my photos are happy then that is ultimately what I am concerned about at the moment. Yes, my technical skills do need improvement, but that will come with experience and practice, I am not under the illusion that it is an overnight process - I have the determination to succeed, researching photograpghy 6-8 hours a day in some cases and when Im not researching im shooting and getting myself opportunities.
 
Jayst84 said:
. The danger when starting out, and asking for critique online, is that people often try to railroad you in to doing what they think is right,
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Basically you won't go far wrong if you listen to Phil and Dave :thumbs:
 
big soft moose said:
Basically you won't go far wrong if you listen to Phil and Dave (y)
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Its all opinons though - there is no 'box' in photography, therefore you cannot think outside it. Everyone has their own unique style, im still finding mine and when I do im certain that others wont like it, and others will. That's what you get when you work in art.
 
Suarez85 said:
Indeed! At the end of the day as long as the people who are parting with their money for my photos are happy.
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on that - be aware that when you move on to selling your skills to strangers rather than friends they will be a lot more demanding , in terms of getting their moneys worth, there is a massive difference between doing a favour for a mate and getting a few shots in return for some beer vouchers and taking pictures for a stranger who expects high quality (quite often out of all proportion to the ammount they've paid)
 
Suarez85 said:
Its all opinons though - there is no 'box' in photography, therefore you cannot think outside it. Everyone has their own unique style, im still finding mine and when I do im certain that others wont like it, and others will. That's what you get when you work in art.
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indeed - but listening to the advice of serious people who do this for a living (in which category i don't place myself, but i would put Dave, Phil, Sir SR , Hugh (boyfalldown) etc) is still a good way to go, because although there's no right or wrong in artistic terms , if your style is to produce harshly lit , badly posed shots with minimal retouching you don't have a saleable product once you exhaust the very finite market of mates

In terms of whats saleable there are definitely some does and don't which you exceed at your peril (unless you are one of the very very few exceptions like jurgen teller - which to be frank you arent)
 
big soft moose said:
indeed - but listening to the advice of serious people who do this for a living (in which category i don't place myself, but i would put Dave, Phil, Sir SR , Hugh (boyfalldown) etc) is still a good way to go, because although there's no right or wrong in artistic terms , if your style is to produce harshly lit , badly posed shots with minimal retouching you don't have a saleable product once you exhaust the very finite market of mates

In terms of whats saleable there are definitely some does and don't which you exceed at your peril (unless you are one of the very very few exceptions like jurgen teller - which to be frank you arent)
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I think you missed my post about 'my technical skills will come with practice, im under no illusion that it is an overnight process' therefore implying I do not think I am going to stay at this level forever and will indeed improve.
 
Suarez85 said:
Its all opinons though - there is no 'box' in photography, therefore you cannot think outside it. Everyone has their own unique style, im still finding mine and when I do im certain that others wont like it, and others will. That's what you get when you work in art.
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You're perfectly correct. There is no 'right' way to do it, there are thousands of approaches, however; there are definitely some wrong ways.

And just be aware you can't hide technical mistakes behind the label 'art' .
 
Phil V said:
You're perfectly correct. There is no 'right' way to do it, there are thousands of approaches, however; there are definitely some wrong ways.

And just be aware you can't hide technical mistakes behind the label 'art' .
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Suarez85 said:
Indeed! At the end of the day as long as the people who are parting with their money for my photos are happy then that is ultimately what I am concerned about at the moment. Yes, my technical skills do need improvement, but that will come with experience and practice, I am not under the illusion that it is an overnight process - I have the determination to succeed, researching photograpghy 6-8 hours a day in some cases and when Im not researching im shooting and getting myself opportunities.
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Suarez85 said:
I think you missed my post about 'my technical skills will come with practice, im under no illusion that it is an overnight process' therefore implying I do not think I am going to stay at this level forever and will indeed improve.
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technical skills will only come with practice though if you listen to those who know what they are talking about when they give you crit ... if you excuse taking poor shots by saying that its your style, or that its art you won't improve anywhere near as fast as if you take it on the chin

You may well have the determination to succeed, but currently in terms of ability if the shots we've seen are typical your ambition to be a pro is writing cheques that your photographic ability can't cash... you'd be much better off learning to use your camera (and light, pose, retouch etc) first then thinking about establishing a business , than you will trying to run before you can walk and potentially getting a reputation for mediocre work produced for a pittance
 
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big soft moose said:
technical skills will only come with practice though if you listen to those who know what they are talking about when they give you crit ... if you excuse taking poor shots by saying that its your style, or that its art you won't improve anywhere near as fast as if you take it on the chin
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Its all about delivering the message you want to get across in the right manner, then people will be receptive
 
big soft moose said:
In terms of whats saleable there are definitely some does and don't which you exceed at your peril (unless you are one of the very very few exceptions like jurgen teller - which to be frank you arent)
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Bit uncalled for, but that's your opinion.
 
Suarez85 said:
Its all about delivering the message you want to get across in the right manner, then people will be receptive
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nope - if you want to learn , its about being receptive to what you are being told by people who know (and i'm not including myself - i mean phil, dave, Sir SR etc) , if you want to go one kidding yourself by all means don't bother listening to them - but thats going to eventually lead to running head first into the wall of reality with your eyes closed.

End of the day you've only been using a DSLR since October and there are clearly some massive gaps in your knowledge around posing, lighting etc - this forum can help close those gaps but in order for that to happen you've got to want to learn and be honest about where you are , rather than perpetuating the fiction that you are already a pro with "clients"
 
big soft moose said:
technical skills will only come with practice though if you listen to those who know what they are talking about when they give you crit ... if you excuse taking poor shots by saying that its your style, or that its art you won't improve anywhere near as fast as if you take it on the chin

You may well have the determination to succeed, but currently in terms of ability if the shots we've seen are typical your ambition to be a pro is writing cheques that your photographic ability can't cash... you'd be much better off learning to use your camera (and light, pose, retouch etc) first then thinking about establishing a business , than you will trying to run before you can walk and potentially getting a reputation for mediocre work produced for a pittance
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Id like to know where i posted I wanted to make a business out of this
 
Suarez85 said:
Bit uncalled for, but that's your opinion.
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Really ? you think that perhaps you are a top name artist with an international reputation ? ... I'm fairly certain that its not just my opinion that says you arent :bang:
 
Suarez85 said:
Id like to know where i posted I wanted to make a business out of this
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Suarez85 said:
Ok, assume im a 'professional' with 2 months experience
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Business is what proffesionals do if you don't want to make a businss out of it , don't charge, and remain an amateur , simples
 
big soft moose said:
Really ? you think that perhaps you are a top name artist with an international reputation ? ... I'm fairly certain that its not just my opinion that says you arent :banghead:
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Again, id like to be quoted on this
 
Suarez85 said:
Please quote me on this
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fine

Suarez85 said:
Hi Guys

Iv been asked by friends of friends to take some portrait shoots of their family. Which of course, I am fine with.

What I want to know is that some of these families have small children - am I required to have a CRB check to be able to photograph them?

It hasn't been asked by any of my clients, but would just be nice to know to make sure I cover myself first and formost.

Thanks in Advance
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big soft moose said:
Business is what proffesionals do if you don't want to make a businss out of it , don't charge, and remain an amateur , simples
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This is utter nonsense.

1. People ask me how much I charge after seeing my work *cue obnoxious comment*
2. I think 'Well I know how much this kit can cost, so why not supplement that with some little money taking photos for people'

Does not mean I am making a business out of this. Yet
 
Phil V said:
The answer to 'there's crap photographers out there charging money' probably shouldn't be 'so let's encourage some more'
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I'm not suggesting the OP charge full professional rates, but a small fee (ie. £50) for a reasonable quantity and quality of photos is acceptable.
 
big soft moose said:
End of the day you've only been using a DSLR since October and there are clearly some massive gaps in your knowledge around posing, lighting etc
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My son, aged 16, used one of my lenses and his sub £100 camera and managed to sell a photograph on his third time of using the camera. His cousin, same age, managed to win an open photographic competition a year earlier.

:)
 
Suarez85 said:
Again, id like to be quoted on this
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Seriously dude just read the thread

I said that unless you were jurgen teller you needed to conform to the norm in order to make money and that frankly you arent

you said thats a bit un called for and that it was only my opinion

I pointed out that actually its not just my opinion that you aren't Jurgen Teller (or anyone of a similar ilk)
 
EdwardL said:
My son, aged 16, used one of my lenses and his sub £100 camera and managed to sell a photograph on his third time of using the camera. His cousin, same age, managed to win an open photographic competition a year earlier.

:)
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And the relevance of this is ?
 
EdwardL said:
My son, aged 16, used one of my lenses and his sub £100 camera and managed to sell a photograph on his third time of using the camera. His cousin, same age, managed to win an open photographic competition a year earlier.

:)
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big soft moose said:
And the relevance of this is ?
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The key message from this post is *drum roll please* managed to sell a photograph on his third time of using the camera therefore implying you do not need years of experience
 
Suarez85 said:
The key message from this post is *drum roll please* managed to sell a photograph on his third time of using the camera therefore implying you do not need years of experience
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But could he do it 4 times a day 5 days a week??
 
Suarez85 said:
Id like to know where i posted I wanted to make a business out of this
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Right in post 1?

When you offer a service for money, that's running a business.

Now, there's good business and bad business, what you decide to provide is up to you.

Suarez85 said:
Hi,...

Im currently offering on location shoots that last about 30mins with 12-15 hi-res images for £20 as an introduction, any idea what I should be charging for this? I dont want to price myself too low that people wont consider me, nor too high, for the same reason.
...
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You can choose to ignore any and all of us, but I can tell you from a few years of watching this industry, there's a pattern.

Most (not all) people start cheap, we believe that providing a product good or bad at less than the market rate will get us a foothold in the market, we get some work.

Then one of 2 things happens next.

We keep improving, and realise that to do it properly takes investment, our prices rise and we become part of 'the mainstream industry'

Or we keep working for peanuts, dealing with crappy customers for little reward until one day we realise we're not really earning enough for the hassle, and we give up.

If you give up tomorrow, there's a queue of wannabe photographers behind you, it's a perpetual line of bottom feeders and it's been there forever.

I'd like to see you succeed, as Dave said earlier, you've got some [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] which will help greatly, but you also need to learn quickly that business has its own life, and denying that is putting you on a road to failure.
 
Suarez85 said:
The key message from this post is *drum roll please* managed to sell a photograph on his third time of using the camera therefore implying you do not need years of experience
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well hurrah three sales - thats not exactly earth shaking (although not bad for a 16yo)

you don't need years of experience to seell the ocasional photo - you do however need to know what you are doing in order to regularly get strangers to pay you to take photos of them
 
big soft moose said:
well hurrah three sales - thats not exactly earth shaking (although not bad for a 16yo)

you don't need years of experience to seell the ocasional photo - you do however need to know what you are doing in order to regularly get strangers to pay you to take photos of them
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Maybe you should read the post correctly before commenting
 
I find a lot of new starts charge cheap due to confidence so their attitude is if I charge cheap and make a balls up the client won't be annoyed as it's only £30 . You'll find IF that's your thinking that won't work IF you make a balls up . It could be £30 or £300 they'll still come down on you just as hard
 
Suarez85 said:
Maybe you should read the post correctly before commenting
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May be you should go back and read post 1

where you said

Im currently offering on location shoots that last about 30mins with 12-15 hi-res images for £20 as an introduction, any idea what I should be charging for this? I dont want to price myself too low that people wont consider me, nor too high, for the same reason.
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In order to "offer on location shoots" you need to know what you are doing - and be able to light, pose and retouch a sight better than the shots you've shared here show
 
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Suarez85 said:
I repeat, i didnt say could I do it 4 or 5 days (or whatever was said) other people did.
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Indeed , you said you wanted to reach 4 shoots a day , so what did you mean ???? 4 shoots a day every 4 months or 4 shoots a day every year ??? So what is it , 4 shoots a day per...............?
 
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