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Amateur Photography Costs
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Obviously, do what you want; it's entirely up to you.
But, IMO, by charging anything at you skill and experience level, you are opening yourself up to a world of hurt.
A few years ago I took some pictures, for free, of a girl's birthday party.
I got ranted at and verbally abused because I didn't make dumpy, dough faced Stokie lasses look like Vogue cover models. For free, remember.
Then, accidents happen. Are you covered?
I just hope you have your eyes open, that's all.
But, IMO, by charging anything at you skill and experience level, you are opening yourself up to a world of hurt.
A few years ago I took some pictures, for free, of a girl's birthday party.
I got ranted at and verbally abused because I didn't make dumpy, dough faced Stokie lasses look like Vogue cover models. For free, remember.
Then, accidents happen. Are you covered?
I just hope you have your eyes open, that's all.
Phil V
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Step back a second. I've encouraged and helped more photographers than days since you bought your first camera. I'm not trying to discourage, I'm offering genuine advice.
What we're saying is; if your skills say your work is worth £30, you haven't got a viable product.
Forget the photography, I'm quite good with a welder. I think I could hand build a bike, I reckon it'd be worth about £100 - should I do it?
The answer is 'What do they cost you to build Phil? and how long will it take?' So the reality is that I cant build a bike for profit. It doesn't matter how attractive that £100 looks, it's an unsustainable business model.
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Photoshop isyour freind, just add their faces to some vogue models pulled from the internet - jobs a good un
(who was it last year who had the engagement shoot where the happy couple turned up i sweat suits and thought he'd just be able to photoshop them into tux and dress ? I think it was andy, but i can't remember for sure)
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Damn, I missed that thread!
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Whilst i don't disagree in principal - if the photo session lasts 30 minuites and its turn and burn shooting in jpeg and presenting shots SOOC, £30 per session could be a viable product ... 5 or 6 sessions a day, virtually no PP time, 5 days per week (750 per week, 3k per month, 36 grand a year with virtually no over head) stack em high and sell em cheap / all my jewelery is crap is a tried and tested business model
course your version is more likely the case but the shoot burn print model is doable - look at all the shopping centre venturealike busineseses
Phil V
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I agree, however with just the one example of work to judge, my guess is that the PP work will take a lot longer than the shoot - turd polishing is a very time consuming pastime. And I have assumed the OP is considering this on a part time basis alongside other work (otherwise why 'amateur') which will help with the numbers he'll need (like you said at 3 a day 7 days a week he'll soon run out of mates mates to shoot).
stumac
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So even if your doing say 5 a day 5 days a week at £30 then you will need to pay tax, so your costs are photography training, camera gear,gear insurance, liability insurance, computer,website, image back up so a cloud account and or ext hard drives, fuel, upkeep of car,advertising (5 a day every day then this will be ALOT of advertising)
business cards, USB or discs for customers and the list goes on and on and on and on and on................
Then your time -which should include- Dealing with emails and telephone calls (again there is going to be atleast 50 of them a week) then advertising, blogging, facebook etc ,preparing for shoots(charging batteries,cleaning lenses) driving to the shoot, shooting the images, driving back, downloading, editing, burning to disc or USB and it goes on and on and on and on
The famous old saying "anyone can be a busy fool" springs to mind.
So my advice is get better , charge what your worth, work less for more money and enjoy it !! dont drag an already struggling industry down
business cards, USB or discs for customers and the list goes on and on and on and on and on................
Then your time -which should include- Dealing with emails and telephone calls (again there is going to be atleast 50 of them a week) then advertising, blogging, facebook etc ,preparing for shoots(charging batteries,cleaning lenses) driving to the shoot, shooting the images, driving back, downloading, editing, burning to disc or USB and it goes on and on and on and on
The famous old saying "anyone can be a busy fool" springs to mind.
So my advice is get better , charge what your worth, work less for more money and enjoy it !! dont drag an already struggling industry down
Oliver Pohlmann
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Not true at all. There are photographers who have been professional and charging clients for 20 years whose quality is below some talented photographers with only 2 months experience. The quality of the photos dictates whether you should charge and how much, not how long you've been doing it.
viv1969
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I read it as 'go for it' but you weren't that specific
I read my last pay slip as take a million quid, but they weren't that specific either
viv1969
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I read it as 'go for it' but you weren't that specific
I actually meant good luck getting sentient advice here
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Really ? how many photographers with two months experience take consistently decent shots of a saleable quality ? - i suspect the answer is not many. Yes the quality dictates whether its saleable, but the experience and skill of the photographer dictates the quality
also as Phil mentioned earlier one reason that there are people who've been shooting crap and charging for it for a long time is because people keep suggesting its a good idea even if you're not very good (that said i doubt there are many 20 year full timers shooting worse than the example the OP posted - they'd have gone out of business long ago)
Phil V
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The answer to 'there's crap photographers out there charging money' probably shouldn't be 'so let's encourage some more'
pjm1
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I reckon the OP has probably got the message now - it's a sensitive subject on here and I can understand why, but shall we instead encourage the OP to post photos on here for comment and a bit of crit as to how to improve them? That way he could improve his skills to the point where he might be able to make a viable business out of it one day?
(And yes, I know many of you have done that with this photo but let's give him reason to post more!)
(And yes, I know many of you have done that with this photo but let's give him reason to post more!)
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you'd be better posting them in a separate thread in the people and portraits board tbh
That aside the first one isnt too bad but the lighting could have been better - did you use the pop up flash ? ( if so get yourself a flash gun with a poseable head as a priority)
The second one is a mess - the pose is awkward, the framing is odd, his expression isnt great and the least said about that background the better ... this one should never have made it out of the recycle bin
That aside the first one isnt too bad but the lighting could have been better - did you use the pop up flash ? ( if so get yourself a flash gun with a poseable head as a priority)
The second one is a mess - the pose is awkward, the framing is odd, his expression isnt great and the least said about that background the better ... this one should never have made it out of the recycle bin
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Crikey, you are a glutton for punishment arn't you ?
On the first one, I didnt use the pop up flash. Iv got a yongnuo YN560 III.
Second one was done at a clients home, they wanted to use that wallpaper as a background.
danny_bhoy
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Sometimes the client isn't always right.
The first one has got potential but for me the lighting is a bit too hot in places and uneven and it's a bit awkwardly framed. I think all three of your shots could do with being a bit less tightly framed.
Keep plugging away though and don't be put off by what you might see as people being harsh - within this forum there's an absolute wealth of knowledge available to you.......as long as you take it on board and don't take the huff at blunt crit
viv1969
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Aye, but I'd love to see some examples from the supposed professionals showing better
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in which case you needed to bounce your flash off something - or use a stofen or similar to difuse it as its a bit hot - its most noticeable on the back of his hands
on the second one as danny says the client isnt always right (also my guess is that the issue you have here is that they aren't clients at all but friends or friends of friends, and thus don't give you the professional respect that a photographer gets from real clients when he explains that the background is 'king horrible and will ruin the shot)
that aside background not withstanding theres a lot else wrong with that, in terms of posing, facial expression, the weird framing that has cut his hands off and so forth , plus the lighting is giving him a salow complexion and theres a load of dead space to the right
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Sir SR
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Get a couple of cheap reflectors off amazon. You can turn your small light source into a softer bigger one by bouncing your flash off it. The other you can use for full. Super cheap set up
Phil V
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Of the 3 you've posted 2 are out of focus, that's a deal breaker for most of us.
The second I like the lighting (ish) it's heading towards being a good shot*, as Danny said it could do with more space, and the jumper I'll come back to.
*theres a place for hard directional light, and this is almost it. But I think it would benefit from some softening, not beauty lighting but a little softer than that.
As for the jumper, like the wallpaper, it's grabbing attention.
Y know what I said about effort before you press the shutter? Well it includes managing wardrobe and environment as well as lighting and gear.
When at a wedding, and a couple of guests approach me for a quick portrait, they're always bemused when I place them in decent light with a decent background, the phrase I like to use is 'the magic doesn't happen in the camera'. We don't point, press and process, we plan point and press, the process is less important.
The second I like the lighting (ish) it's heading towards being a good shot*, as Danny said it could do with more space, and the jumper I'll come back to.
*theres a place for hard directional light, and this is almost it. But I think it would benefit from some softening, not beauty lighting but a little softer than that.
As for the jumper, like the wallpaper, it's grabbing attention.
Y know what I said about effort before you press the shutter? Well it includes managing wardrobe and environment as well as lighting and gear.
When at a wedding, and a couple of guests approach me for a quick portrait, they're always bemused when I place them in decent light with a decent background, the phrase I like to use is 'the magic doesn't happen in the camera'. We don't point, press and process, we plan point and press, the process is less important.
Phil V
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Most of us have a link in our sigAye, but I'd love to see some examples from the supposed professionals showing better
And that's 'semi professional'
Yeah I have a 5in1 reflector, it was just the 2 of us and didnt have anywhere/anyhow to bounce the flash off, but agreed it is hot in places.
The reason I framed it like that is because he was sat on the floor with his knee up and I didnt like it like that, so I decided to crop it there.
viv1969
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Sir SR
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Use the reflector to bounce off. Not overly keen on the outdoor one but it's the only example I had of bouncing an on camera flash off a reflector outdoors
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so next time pose him better - in a shoot like this you need to be in control of how he stands/kneels etc ... with mates its always difficult but with a proper client you can generally get them to do what you want ( because they trust you to know what you are doing)
another good tip on learning posing is to do a shoot with a paid model - most of them know a fair bit about how to pose and can lead the newbie photographer through the process (this goes back to what i was saying earlier about you not being ready to be doing paying gigs - there's a shed load more to sucessful paid photography than knowing how to use your camera)
oh and on flash bouncing a bit of white card taped to the top of the flash gun is the answer - then you bend it forward so you can point the flash up and bounce it off the card... or tissue paper/greaseproof paper over the flash etc ... there's always a way to do it if you want to badly enough
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Back to the OP - brave lad being both so bold and posting your photos in here too after stating your aims & fees. That kind of bravery & thick skin will get you far - good luck
Just a couple of minor suggestions though - learn how to light, pose, position and retouch asap over the next few months, then reshoot these same people (for free) showing how much you've improved and telling them that as you're doing it properly now you need to charge a 'proper' rate, its easy enough to find out what that proper rate is, especially if you know the Hotdog story on pricing
Dave
Just a couple of minor suggestions though - learn how to light, pose, position and retouch asap over the next few months, then reshoot these same people (for free) showing how much you've improved and telling them that as you're doing it properly now you need to charge a 'proper' rate, its easy enough to find out what that proper rate is, especially if you know the Hotdog story on pricing
Dave
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the first is better than the second which is badly exposed/over flashed , however it still has an odd skin tone and the directional lighting has emphasised the creases on her neck
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No ceiling or wall to bounce off?
Not in the factory, massive ceilings, and they were gray. The way I positioned and wanted the light, meant that it was dropping off before hitting the wall
Phil V
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PP
Like most newbies you're spending
A: too much time and effort on daft processing techniques, whilst...
B: not enough effort making the most of your image / subject.
Would your subject like these better with some subtle skin smoothing and crease removal?
Making people look good starts with posing and lighting, and ends with some subtle enhancement at the computer.
The thing about dramatic lighting is that it exaggerates skin imperfections.
Phil V
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I didn't want to take credit for your marvellous insight
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Fair do's. For locations such as that, prep is a must
I actually spent minimal time in PP. All i did was desaturate the colour for the first, and got the right black and white I was looking for, for the 2nd (Although in hindsight, it is too hot)
Fair do's. For locations such as that, prep is a must
Definitely! Learning from my mistakes (fast)