Alternative to Canon EOS 7D

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Rob
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A friend of mine is contemplating the purchase of a Canon EOS 7D for her fiance - a former news-togger and colleague of mine.
I know he's used Canon in the past and would probably prefer to use Canon again, rather than go across to the Dark-side.
Knowing very little about Canon's line-up and bearing in mind this guy is an ex-pro who left photography about ten years ago, would this camera be suitable? APS-C format versus full-frame, 18Mpx vs 12.2Mpx (with the Nikon equivalent) etc. etc.
What other cameras in Canon's line-up would also be up for consideration?

I've done a little reading, but would prefer that the Canon owners on here come forth and offer their opinions based on real-world experience, rather than possibly biased reviews...
Budget could stretch to about 20-30% more I should think, for the right camera...

I'm going to advise on a Nikon alternative for the sake of balance and I'll be offering up the D300s or D700 with a heavy 'lean' towards the D700...

Cheers Peeps...:D
 
The 7D sits nicely between the 1D range, and the 50D range.. so there isn't any real equivalent Canon models.. you either go up a range or down a range!

That's not to say the 50D/40D aren't good cameras, they are very capable, but being an ex-pro, he may feel more justified in spending the money on the better build, AF and noise handling!
 
purpleclouds said:
The 7D sits nicely between the 1D range, and the 50D range.. so there isn't any real equivalent Canon models.. you either go up a range or down a range!

That's not to say the 50D/40D aren't good cameras, they are very capable, but being an ex-pro, he may feel more justified in spending the money on the better build, AF and noise handling!
Click to expand...

I think we'd be going 'up' rather than down...
 
My experience is with 30D, 40D, 50D and now 7D. 7D is easily the best of all these. Its a big step up price wise to a 1D Mk IV, although there are still 1D Mk III's at around £ 1500 if you're lucky.

Unless he wants the build quality of the 1 series, any person with pro-level experience would either want the 7D or the 5D Mk II depending on their requirements.
 
What about the 5D mk11 ?

friend of mine looked at both the 7D and 5Dmk11 upgrading from the 5D and went with the mk11 as he was used to the full frame, but he did say
if your not too bothered about the sensor size then theres not a lot out there to touch the 7D
 
7D is a good camera - it's certainly the best APS-C Canon yet IMO. Other real option is the 5DII. Less good AF (but is that an issue for the use it will have?) but great image quality.

Or, if you go used, I sold a 1DsII on here not long ago for £1000. That's a lot of camera for that money.
 
As it's going to be a wedding-present, the 2nd-hand option is out unfortunately - I know Dan wouldn't mind, but the idea of giving a pre-owned anything as a gift wouldn't sit right, especially not as a wedding-present...
Looks like I'm going to steer them towards the 7D, the 5D II (as an upgrade option) and the Nikon D700 if I can...
 
It depends on the intended use, I'd say. 1Ds2 is a great all rounder. 5D is arguably a bit better, particularly for landscapes and travel but not so much for action. 7D - wildlife and action, 1d3 - sports and wildlife. If I could only have 1 body it would clearly be 5D2 this time due to liveview and smaller size.
 
If buying new, I would suggest either the 7D (1.6 crop) or 5Dmk2 (FF)

If buying second hand, I would suggest the 1Dmk3 (1.3 crop) or 1Dsmk2 or 5Dmk2 (both FF)

Mark
 
This is all down to what he will shoot with it. If he wants good focusing and speed then its the 7d all the way, if he wants to do landscape and portraits its got to be the 5dmk2.
 
Actually, I'm going to get shot by the Canon mob for this but the answer has to be a D700. It's the best all round camera out there right now.
 
malla1962 said:
This is all down to what he will shoot with it. If he wants good focusing and speed then its the 7d all the way, if he wants to do landscape and portraits its got to be the 5dmk2.
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:plusone:
 
Hi Rob,

I guess the nearest equivalent to the 7D would be the D300s...

Would I be happy to recommend the 7D? Most certainly and budget would be the main deciding factor between that and the 5DMKII. Image quality on either model is outstanding but the 5DMKII certainly has the edge in certain respects. Having said that, the 7D is the more 'technologically advanced' of the two Canons. :)

That's probably not the greatest of help but I can only go from my own experiences... I did have a 5DMKI and whilst I found it to be a very capable camera, I didn't feel that I'd gain too much by switching to full-frame. I've just sold a set of prints to a local doctor's surgery and they've all been printed 18x12 inches and the quality is excellent. I wonder if I'd have seen a great deal of improvement if they'd been taken on a full frame camera.

Si
 
The 7D is the best camera I've had to date for what I mainly do which is long lens wildlife stuff. I've always said my ideal camera would be a 1.6 crop sensor in a I Series body, but Canon don't seem to be listening! To be fair the 7D comes close, with a cracking AF system and much higher build quality and weather sealing than the XXD range.
 
Presumably he has no digital kit at present so needs to decide which road Nikon or Canon he wants to go down, considering future purchases lens etc. Since a former Canon user he may well be biased towards that. Probably lots of competant cameras about and I suspect most users rarely have experience of the 'others' alternative offering to be able to make a fair judgement as to which is best. Have to say though the 7D is an awesome camera. Is a Nikon 'whatever' better can't say as I've not used one.
 
It might not seem a very helpful reply, but he will be delighted by any of the cameras you mention - a lot has happened in 10 years so, let's face it, he's going to be blown away!
 
grumpybadger said:
Actually, I'm going to get shot by the Canon mob for this but the answer has to be a D700. It's the best all round camera out there right now.
Click to expand...

Alas, I fear that you could be right :( A 40% premium on the 7D's price but sits right beside the 5DII in the pricing stakes.

Bob
 
This thread might be informative - http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=206848. Try to make it to post #53 if you can, where I summarise my feelings about the 7D vs the 1Ds vs the 5D2. Ultimately the right choice depends on a great many factors, not least of which is the personal preference of the photographer and anticipated budget and future needs/desires for growing the system.
 
basicaly 5dII or 7d depending on shooting style

7d for sports, wildlife and fast stuff with amazing AF and cropability

5dII for IQ

I find a 5dII suits my shooting style very very well so I have that instead
 
7D for crop, 5D mark II for full frame, or D700 if you're looking at Nikon. I'd go for the D700 over the 5D mark II if it comes down to that; unfortunately I can't justify the switch from Canon to Nikon myself at the moment, otherwise that's exactly what I would be doing.
 
I've gone from a 400d to a 50d to a 7d. So far the 7d has blown me away. It has the af I wish the 5dii had. It's certainly a fantastic camera.

I've not used a 5dii, but functionally I'd prefer the 7d. I was very underwealmed by the 5dii when it was released. I held off buying a 5di when i heard the mk ii was iminant.

That said, my brother in law has a d700. I have had a go, and if I was starting with a blank canvas I would definately lean a long way towards the nikon for ff.

I guess I'm saying, cropped has to be a 7d, ff d700. In my opinion as a pure amateur!
 
You can get the 1d MkIII for under £1500 still after Focus. The camera handles more like a pro than the 7D which is a good camera.
 
the 7D is a great camera, great AF, great high iso BUT its biggest issue is that you can't get away with not nailing the focus as that 18mpix shows it up straight away and there is still noise at iso 100 if you look at a constant color tone at 100%.

i am very happy with mine, if i could afford the longer lenses i might consider a 1d3 but i can't and i like being able to take the grip off for caving stuff where i have to put the camera in a dry box.
 
grumpybadger said:
Actually, I'm going to get shot by the Canon mob for this but the answer has to be a D700. It's the best all round camera out there right now.
Click to expand...

It has to be said that Canon presently has no answer to the D700, which is a kind of 7D/5D2 hybrid, and pretty much the best of both. Fantastic camera. Until the 5D3 of course, but that's a whole different scenario and I don't suppose Nikon are just sitting around doing nothing.

I've just upgraded to a 5D2, but mainly because of the Canon lens options. Nikon has nothing like the 24-105L, or 70-200L 4 IS, or the 100-400L, or, or...

As others have said, after ten years away he will be blown away by any of the potential contenders. And I don't suppose a current Canon digital will feel any more familar than a Nikon - they will all be pretty alien TBH. But I think you need to firm up a bit more on intended use and potential lens choices before jumping either way.
 
As a comitted Nikon-user myself, I have to say that I will be recommending based on all the available evidence and a fair knowledge of what the camera will be used for...

EOS 7D plus BG-E7 grip,
2x batteries,
Sandisk Extreme 16Gb card
Canon EF-S 17-85 f/4-5.6

- that brings the package in at under £2,000 which was her max budget.
If anyone knows of a better Canon sub £500 lens in that range let me know asap.
I would have recommended the 24-70 f/2.8, but her budget won't stretch that far.

I don't think it'll be quite as good a camera as a D700, but with the package we can put together for that budget, I think it's pretty unbeatable TBH...
 
Forget that lens. It was a kit lens with the 30D back in 2006. I used it for a year, before upgrading to better glass. It served me well for that year but I outgrew it, craving faster optics. Interestingly, I was not unhappy with the IQ, although it can be a bit iffy at the wide end, but I don't think it is a good match for a 7D and I don't think an experienced photographer would appreciate the slow and variable max aperture zoom. I'd suggest forgetting the grip and finding a way to squeeze the 17-55/2.8 IS into the mix. For an APS-C body I'd rate it as a better lens than the 24-70. It is a common choice for wedding pros for APS-C cameras. That must say something.

If the speed (aperture) is not important, but the range is, then take a look at the new 15-85 IS lens rather than the 17-85, but anyone who shoots manual exposure is likely to be very frustrated by that variable max aperture on either of these zooms, as is anyone who shoots in poor light or likes soft backgrounds.

As for batteries, a 7D should easily deliver ~1,000+ shots from a fully charged battery, so there is probably no need for spares, at least to begin with. Even with the grip, it should still operate on just one battery.

All in all, it would be much better to buy good glass once, and then the little extras can be added in later if they fall outside the budget. 7D + 17-55 sneaks in just under £2,000 according to the latest prices on camerapricebuster. If you're set on the 7D (and nothing wrong with that decision) that's they way I'd go, no question. Perhaps Kerso can save a few ££££s, which would allow a decent memory card to be included within budget. I use 32GB Transcend 133X cards (£54 each when I bought mine) and they do fine in my 7D, 1D3 and 5D2. I understand some people like to use faster cards, but they are only "essential" if you routinely fill the buffer, which is good for 15 raw files or 94 large, fine JPEGS before slowing down.
 
:agree:

If it's for a lady, the grip may make things a little too unweildy... I'm not being sexist but girls generally have smaller hands and my girlfriend isn't too keen on my 7D with the grip on (she shoots a 1000D with the grip though).

As Tim says, battery life will be around the 1000 shot mark per full charge (that's what I'm getting from mine). The 17-55mm f2.8 is a lovely lens to use but if your friend wants a touch more reach, the 24-205 F4L should also be considered - even though it's a stop slower.

I'm still convinced that the nearest direct competitor from Nikon is the D300s... In fact, there's very little to choose between the two.

Si
 
The camera is a wedding-present for a mate. She's buying - he's an ex Press-togger, so it needs to be a bit tasty...

Ok... My gut instinct was for the 24-70, but I'll have a look at the 17-55 f/2.8IS...
 
tdodd said:
Forget that lens. It was a kit lens with the 30D back in 2006. I used it for a year, before upgrading to better glass. It served me well for that year but I outgrew it, craving faster optics. Interestingly, I was not unhappy with the IQ, although it can be a bit iffy at the wide end, but I don't think it is a good match for a 7D and I don't think an experienced photographer would appreciate the slow and variable max aperture zoom. I'd suggest forgetting the grip and finding a way to squeeze the 17-55/2.8 IS into the mix. For an APS-C body I'd rate it as a better lens than the 24-70. It is a common choice for wedding pros for APS-C cameras. That must say something.

If the speed (aperture) is not important, but the range is, then take a look at the new 15-85 IS lens rather than the 17-85, but anyone who shoots manual exposure is likely to be very frustrated by that variable max aperture on either of these zooms, as is anyone who shoots in poor light or likes soft backgrounds.

As for batteries, a 7D should easily deliver ~1,000+ shots from a fully charged battery, so there is probably no need for spares, at least to begin with. Even with the grip, it should still operate on just one battery.

All in all, it would be much better to buy good glass once, and then the little extras can be added in later if they fall outside the budget. 7D + 17-55 sneaks in just under £2,000 according to the latest prices on camerapricebuster. If you're set on the 7D (and nothing wrong with that decision) that's they way I'd go, no question. Perhaps Kerso can save a few ££££s, which would allow a decent memory card to be included within budget. I use 32GB Transcend 133X cards (£54 each when I bought mine) and they do fine in my 7D, 1D3 and 5D2. I understand some people like to use faster cards, but they are only "essential" if you routinely fill the buffer, which is good for 15 raw files or 94 large, fine JPEGS before slowing down.
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Rob, listen to Tim. 7D is fantastic, no question it's the best crop camera out there right now - it's basically a pro-spec camera, and feels like it.

But not the 17-85. If you want the range, the new 15-85 is much better and those extra 2mm at the short end move it from effectively a 28mm equivalent to 24mm wide-angle, or thereabouts.

My choice however would definitely be for the 17-55 2.8 IS. Fantastic lens, and coming from the generally faster lenses of film I think he'll appreciate f/2.8.

I would also drop the grip to bring it in to budget. It doesn't increase the shooting speed like Nikon's do and TBH I think most people buy them for pose value ;) He's surely grown out of that.
 
Another vote for the 17-55. It's what I use on my 7D and it is a cracker. Actually, what I use on my 7D most of the time is the 500/4 but that's out of budget! But, as a standard zoom the 17-55 is great. I also run without a grip. Why do I want it to look like a 1DIV when I also have one of those ;). Seriously, I like the fact it is smaller and with 1200 shots per battery, I don't need the extra power from 2 in a grip. I know some like the portrait buttons, but I'd rather trade the smaller size.

Richard - my D700 comment isn't a knock on Canon, just what I'd pick if I was starting again. Another lens to add to your list and the thing that keeps me Canon as well as the 70-200/4 IS is the 400/4 DO.
 
Shame about the budget.....D700 is a killer....
 
grumpybadger said:
Another vote for the 17-55. It's what I use on my 7D and it is a cracker. Actually, what I use on my 7D most of the time is the 500/4 but that's out of budget! But, as a standard zoom the 17-55 is great. I also run without a grip. Why do I want it to look like a 1DIV when I also have one of those ;). Seriously, I like the fact it is smaller and with 1200 shots per battery, I don't need the extra power from 2 in a grip. I know some like the portrait buttons, but I'd rather trade the smaller size.

Richard - my D700 comment isn't a knock on Canon, just what I'd pick if I was starting again. Another lens to add to your list and the thing that keeps me Canon as well as the 70-200/4 IS is the 400/4 DO.
Click to expand...

Sure, I wasn't knocking Canon either :) TBH I think Nikon and Canon are very evenly matched currently, even though I still back Canon as the brand to be with long term.

I think Nikon's DSLR range has a slight edge overall, and are they not outselling Canon currently - for the first time in decades? But that could change with a couple of new models.

However, Canon's lens range is unquestionably stronger. Not that Canon lenses are any better per se, but there is just more of them, more options, more choice. And that is not going to change for a very long time.
 
7D, 17-55 2.8 IS, BG7 and 4gig memery card... can't go wrong

Ebay 7D £1044

ebay lens £774

Ebay BGe7 £158

And a 4gig memory card.. with the change. And all in the UK

OR give our very own Kerso a PM! see what he can do the package for

OOOPS links not working...:razz:
 
HoppyUK said:
...I think Nikon's DSLR range has a slight edge overall, and are they not outselling Canon currently - for the first time in decades? But that could change with a couple of new models...
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So do I, but looking at the specs on the 7D, I'm very impressed.

( Oh, and Nikon are outselling Canon for the first time in eight years, actually.
They held the lead with the D1 and D1x/D1H, then lost out to Canon until the advent of the D3 and D3x.)

Thanks guys...spoke to Kerso and we have a deal in place for the next 7 days... Assuming Katy can come up with the cash this week then it's the 7D and the 17-55 f.2.8...
I'll pop for the grip, batteries and a brace of Sandisk Extreme 16Gb (60x write-speed)cards as my contribution...
 
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