Alan Henning murdered by IS in Syria

big soft moose said:
indeed - which is why its crucial in the fight against IS to keep the moderate muslim nations (and as far as possible our own islamic population) on side - and that means not letting them provoke us into doing something rash as knee jerk reaction to what IS do. IS would love to spin themselves as Salah al din reborn fighting off the evil western invader, but its difficult for them to do that if countries like turkey are in the alliance against them
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Also why the first rule of a war in the Middle East is "attack Israel".
 
JonathanRyan said:
Also why the first rule of a war in the Middle East is "attack Israel".
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Indeed, that's why sad man insane was firing scuds at israel in gulf 1 - he didnt give a good f*** about the rights of the palestinians but if he'd managed to provoke the IDF into invading to sort them out the aliane would have fallen apart and he could then have seized the saudi oil fields at his leisure and then held the west to ransom on the threat of turning off the fuel supply . That was also why we wound up commiting about half the SAS to sorting them out instead in order to keep israel out of the war
 
It's not right to tar all Muslims with the same brush. If you want to find bad bits in the Quran and quote them you can, but there are also good bits. I bet there are bad bits and good bits in the Bible too if you look hard enough. Personally I don't think selective quoting really helps anything here. Just cause there are a bunch of scumheads in the ME who call themselves IS doesn't mean anyone else is one of those scumheads. It's as silly as finding some scumheads in the UK (and you know there are some pretty unpalatable types here too) and saying everyone in the UK is a scumhead. That's probably what they do and how this cycle continues. You should be better than that.

If anything what Alan Henning's death proves is that these people are not bound by adherence to religious morality and doing any right thing, but bound by violence and destruction. And I have lived long enough in the Middle East myself that I know fullwell that there are people out there just like us, who hate this crap, who have kids they care about and jobs they worry about.
 
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nass said:
It's not right to tar all Muslims with the same brush. If you want to find bad bits in the Quran and quote them you can, but there are also good bits. I bet there are bad bits and good bits in the bible too if you look hard enough. Personally I don't think selective quoting really helps anything here. .
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Indeed - also not forgetting that you have to be able to interpret what is written , plus what you are reading is almost certainly a translation and may well have been simplified and interpreted like for example the Sura on women says that "a good woman is obedient" - but only in later versions does it say that "a good women is obedient to her husband" , some scholars believe that the original version may have meant "a good woman is obedient to the will of Allah" that is "don't marry a pagan"
 
big soft moose said:
Indeed - also not forgetting that you have to be able to interpret what is written , plus what you are reading is almost certainly a translation and may well have been simplified and interpreted like for example the Sura on women says that "a good woman is obedient" - but only in later versions does it say that "a good women is obedient to her husband" , some scholars believe that the original version may have meant "a good woman is obedient to the will of Allah" that is "don't marry a pagan"
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Also, some versions of the UK national anthem say that we plan to crush rebellious Scots. And really, don't get me started on the Bible....

Selective quoting is generally dangerous.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Also, some versions of the UK national anthem say that we plan to crush rebellious Scots. And really, don't get me started on the Bible....

Selective quoting is generally dangerous.
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Which version?! :runaway:
 
viv1969 said:
I meant which Bible version...hence the Bold
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But Jonathan's post doesn't imply anything about Scot bashing in the bible.

But if it does, I will take these examples from Reverend Lovejoy in The Simpsons

Reverend Timothy Lovejoy: [Reading from his Bible] And the Lord said, "Whack ye all the serpents which crawl upon their bellies, and thy town shall be a beacon unto others." So you see, Lisa, even God Himself endorses Whacking Day.
Lisa: Let me see that.
Reverend Timothy Lovejoy: [Putting his Bible away] No.

and...

Ned Flanders: Sorry to bother you, Reverend Lovejoy, but I'm kind of in a tizzy. My son Todd just told us he didn't want to eat his damn vegetables.
Rev. Lovejoy: Well, you know kids and vegetables. What was it? Asparagus?
Ned Flanders: No, no, Reverend. The point is, he said a bad word.
Rev. Lovejoy: Oh, oh, right, yeah. Well, kids usually pick these things up from someplace. Find out who's doing it and... direct them to the Bible.
Ned Flanders: Where in the Bible?
Rev. Lovejoy: Uh... page 900.
[quickly hangs up]


Steve.
 
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My impression is that jon meant don't get him started on the bible generally , not that it said that you should crush the scots in the bible
 
big soft moose said:
My impression is that jon meant don't get him started on the bible generally , not that it said that you should crush the scots in the bible
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This. (y)
 
Steve Smith said:
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King. .
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No wonder they wanted independence :D
 
Whatever you think it's a war we should of kept out of.
Why,because it can't be won by air alone,and both the US & the UK do not want to send in ground troops,so that leave the Kurds,who need better arms to take them on,but no one wants to arm them to much,because maybe if they do the job,they may want their own independent state across both Iraqi & Turkey.
The Iraqi army not up to it,and even if they could drive them back across the border,who going to tackle them in Syria,the Syria army,but they prefer divided emery to fight than turning all their effort to the IS.
 
Air can make a big difference , and the kurds cold probably handle isis with the weapons they have if supported by allied air power - and if the kurds want the top third of Iraq as a homeland in pay back , ask me if I care.

but what it really needs is an allied muslim force on the ground - the Saudi's could do it and its in their interests to sort ISIS out before they come south , ditto Turkey who have a substantial armed forces and a good rep for not being someone to mess with lightly ... however they would need Air and logistical support.
 
big soft moose said:
ditto Turkey who have a substantial armed forces and a good rep for not being someone to mess with lightly ... however they would need Air and logistical support.
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Turkey have one of the larger air forces in Europe, somewhere above 600 aircraft including over 250 frontline jet fighters, if they got involved they should be able to handle IS by themselves (they just don't seem to have the will).
 
Dave1 said:
Turkey have one of the larger air forces in Europe, somewhere above 600 aircraft including over 250 frontline jet fighters, if they got involved they should be able to handle IS by themselves (they just don't seem to have the will).
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There are a number of internal political issues in Turkey that mean they are unlikely to go it alone on this I'd guess
 
big soft moose said:
Air can make a big difference , and the kurds cold probably handle isis with the weapons they have if supported by allied air power - and if the kurds want the top third of Iraq as a homeland in pay back , ask me if I care.

but what it really needs is an allied muslim force on the ground - the Saudi's could do it and its in their interests to sort ISIS out before they come south , ditto Turkey who have a substantial armed forces and a good rep for not being someone to mess with lightly ... however they would need Air and logistical support.
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Turkey has been involve in its own war with its own Kurdish population for years,and it doesn't want the kurds of Iraq to be heavily armed in case those arm end up across the border in their own Kurds hands.
The Saudi"s will sit back and let others do the dirty work,as always.
And again if they go to ground in Syria the IS,who ground forces are going to cross that border to take them on ?
 
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