Aiming for a quieter PC....

arad85

arad85

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So... over the past couple of months, I've built a silent PC (no fans whatsoever) and I've upgraded the home server with the same technology. That too is effectively silent (although I still have a couple of fans gently blowing air over the 8 HDDs there, but you can't hear them)....

Now it's time for my main editing PC - an overclocked i7-2600K at 4.4GHz. It's currently in a silent case (Antec P180) with a Corsair TX650 PSU. The case has 4 fans and the heatsink for the CPU has a temperature controlled one too making 5 in total. It's quiet, just not quiet enough given the computers around it. I'm looking at making this rebuild as quiet as possible (not changing the CPU/mobo at the moment, just the case & environment it lives in).

As far as I can see, there are two ways of making things quiet - either maximise airflow and minimise fans or maximise sound deadening and balance with some quiet fans. The NoFan (which I used on both previous quiet/silent builds - see: http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=449072) is definitely of the former having no fans, but the other two machines it is used on are not being overclocked (the server has a processor that draws a similar power, but is not overclocked).

The aim of this thread is to share my experiences (this is definitely WIP - I only ordered some of the bits today) so hopefully, it will help others who are looking to do similar.

OK. so what am I doing. Simply:
  • Get a case that can handle either reasonably good air flow OR can be put into silent mode by blocking up holes.
  • Improve the PSU (fanless if possible)
  • Address cooling in the case (not sure if I will need fans or not)
  • Address CPU cooling (I'm currently using a Scythe Ninja heatsink with attached fan that spins up when the system gets heavily loaded).

I'd like to use another NoFan, but I'm not sure on two points: firstly, the thing won't fit on my motherboard and allow me to keep the graphics card I am using (heatsinking on the gfx will get in the way). Secondly, I'm not sure if I want to move to Haswell when it arrives). Coinsequently, I'm going to run the current CPU/heatsink in a new enclosure and see what happens in both "maximum convection airflow" mode and "managed silence" mode. I'll make a decision later what to do with the CPU...

So.. what have I found... Well, as for case, there isn't a "perfect" case. They either tend towards open and full of mesh or closed and managed airflow. There are only a few cases that try to address both methods of working. I looked at Coolermaster, Corsair Obsidian and a number of others (I must have spent hours pouring over case specs and reviews this weekend). I finally decided on a Fractal XL R2 which is a beast of a case allowing 4 x 5.25" drives and 8 x 3.5" drives plus an oversized motherboard. This is overkill for what I want, but I know from previous experience, I will always find a need for the larger size... This is now my third Fractal case. They just seem to "do it" for me being a combination of great value, great design and something which doesn't look too bling... I will be trying it in both "everything open" and "everything closed" mode to see which comes over the quieter.

PSU was quite easy. I wanted 500+W and quiet. Very, very quiet. This meant either a passive PSU or one that is so efficient, it doesn't need active cooling until it is well into it's power envelope. Passive PSUs kind of finish at just over 500W, but given this machine gets changed often, I wanted future proof. IMHO, that left only one PSU - the Corsair AX series. I was going to buy the 760W version, but ebuyer had one of those quirks where the 860W version was 10% cheaper than the 760W one. 860W acquired :) The other advantage is that it works completely fanlessly until power draw gets into the 400+W range - which is the same sort of range as the fanless PSUs.

That led onto how to cool this thing. I've been going back and fore between liquid and air cooling, and think I've decided on air - simply because the CPU coolers aren't massively different - it's the gfx coolers that really get liquid winning and I'm on a passive graphics card anyway. Having said that, I want to go completely passive if I can, so would like no fans at all. A fallback position of some fans when it is being used heavily is ok if that's what it takes. I also want it to be automatic too - so that as temps rise, so cooling kicks in if needed (always assuming passive doesn't work of course). I think this leads me to the main purpose of this thread: controlling the fans....

Essentially, I've been looking for an active control system that manages itself, and I think I have found it (at a reasonable price!). I've just bought an aquacomputer (http://www.aquacomputer.com/) Auuaero 5 LT (the one without the LCD). http://www.aquacomputer.com/aquaero-5.html Basically a unit that has temperature monitors, fan controllers and software that allows you to specify what fan gets turned on, how hard it gets turned on and under what circumstances that fan ramps up.

Basically, I'm going to try passive (bar the CPU at the moment). Failing that, I will use the software controller to have no fans at idle, but to switch on when the chassis heats up and then increase the airflow as things get hotter. I will also probably experiment with the CPU heatsink controlled by this unit too....

More once things arrive (and yes, there will be computer porn... :rolleyes: ). :D
 
no water you say...
when you will get fan controller, why not swap fans for more efficient ones ?
how many drives you have ? and what GPU ?
Im under water for a while now.
Was using arctic fans on radiator since beginning as never thought of justifying cost of gentle typhoons - apparently best fans ;)
Had fan control unit with it but never connected lol

So took the plunge when I was swapping tubing around and cleaning system, and bought typhoons for rad.
You simply can’t hear them on lower settings – around 50% of max speed
Connected all case fans and them to controller and lowered their speed as well just to have small airflow inside the case.

Now I can hear only waterpump J

So maybe consider swapping stock case fans ?


anyhow...looking forward to see how it goes :)
 
bastic said:
no water you say...
when you will get fan controller, why not swap fans for more efficient ones ?
Click to expand...
I already have a manual controller - the Fractals are quite quiet. I think my approach is going to be to see how far I get with the Fractals and then see how loud or quiet I am. Will probably look at Noctuas or Scythes (the heatsink fan is a Scythe)


bastic said:
how many drives you have ? and what GPU ?
Click to expand...
3 HDDs and 2 SSDs. GPU is a passive 7750.

bastic said:
Had fan control unit with it but never connected lol
Click to expand...
I've just invested in the micro controlled unit and the geek in me will enjoy seeing what that can do. I've also been playing with speedfan, but my mobo only has 2 controllable outputs, hence the purchase of an Aquaero 5.

bastic said:
You simply can’t hear them on lower settings – around 50% of max speed
Click to expand...
The problem with this is that the threshold of audibility is different depending on your environment. I have 2 12cm low noise fans wound down as far as I can get them inside (i.e. not blowing air out of the casing, just gentle airflow over the passive heatsink and through the passive PSU) my HTPC. I can still hear them in a reasonably well insulated case 10 feet away if the room is quiet.
 
Have a look at Corsairs H series units. They are self contained water cooled units that require zero maintenance and are STUPIDLY quiet.

I have built a friends computer that uses the H100i unit, it has 2 fans on it's radiator and is fantastically silent.

I run a H60 at the moment, doesn't make a peep.
 
farrance said:
I run a H60 at the moment, doesn't make a peep.
Click to expand...
But they do when the processor is running flat out. They aren't designed to dissipate the heat without forced airflow.... Idling isn't the problem. My PC is actually quieter than my laptop when it is idling - it's louder when it's doing a lot of work though... My aim is to have no noise increase at all when fully flat out. In fact, no noise at all (i.e. fully passive) would be even better.... ;)
 
arad85 said:
But they do when the processor is running flat out. They aren't designed to dissipate the heat without forced airflow.... Idling isn't the problem. My PC is actually quieter than my laptop when it is idling - it's louder when it's doing a lot of work though... My aim is to have no noise increase at all when fully flat out. In fact, no noise at all (i.e. fully passive) would be even better.... ;)
Click to expand...

I run my i5 3570k at 4.4ghz on the H60.. at idle it doesn't make a peep. When I play Skyrim it gets to the same volume as the HDD's do. A mere hum.

I've got a H100i going in in a week.
 
You must have good hearing if you hear those fans so far from pc...unless they are not so quiet....
My arctic fans were loud on low speed compared to typhoons ;)

Just saying :)
 
My fans are fine - my expectation of quiet may be higher (or lower depending on which way you look at it) than yours... plus we live in a very quiet area (no traffic, very little background noise).

The H60 will have fans running flat out if you are running flat out (Skyrim may not push the CPU as much as video recode does which is basically pegged at 100%). And apologies, but if you game, then surely your GPU has a fan... which will be drowning everything else. Looking at: http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_h60_2013_review,9.html and you're up to ~40dBA. I'd like to be ~ 10dBA or lower if possible!
 
arad85 said:
My fans are fine - my expectation of quiet may be higher (or lower depending on which way you look at it) than yours... plus we live in a very quiet area (no traffic, very little background noise).

The H60 will have fans running flat out if you are running flat out (Skyrim may not push the CPU as much as video recode does which is basically pegged at 100%). And apologies, but if you game, then surely your GPU has a fan... which will be drowning everything else. Looking at: http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_h60_2013_review,9.html and you're up to ~40dBA. I'd like to be ~ 10dBA or lower if possible!
Click to expand...

5th floor in quiet road with windows closed its quiet;)

Not going to argue in that lol

Will wait for results.

I myself was thinking about passive cooling on water cooling without fans..even once managed to switch off radiator fans by mistake and didn't notice.
Noticed when it started to get to hit in the room :) was lucky that pipes managed to hold...water must have been really hot in them...
Without overclocked 7970 it would be fine.
i 7's don't heat up too much especially under water.

Keep us updated
 
arad85 said:
My fans are fine - my expectation of quiet may be higher (or lower depending on which way you look at it) than yours... plus we live in a very quiet area (no traffic, very little background noise).

The H60 will have fans running flat out if you are running flat out (Skyrim may not push the CPU as much as video recode does which is basically pegged at 100%). And apologies, but if you game, then surely your GPU has a fan... which will be drowning everything else. Looking at: http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_h60_2013_review,9.html and you're up to ~40dBA. I'd like to be ~ 10dBA or lower if possible!
Click to expand...

5th floor in quiet road with windows closed its quiet;)

Not going to argue in that lol

Will wait for results.

I myself was thinking about passive cooling on water cooling without fans..even once managed to switch off radiator fans by mistake and didn't notice.
Noticed when it started to get to hit in the room :) was lucky that pipes managed to hold...water must have been really hot in them...
Without overclocked 7970 it would be fine.
i 7's don't heat up too much especially under water.

Keep us updated
 
bastic said:
5th floor in quiet road with windows closed its quiet;)

Not going to argue in that lol
Click to expand...
I understood where the problem was last night... It's at 1am when everything is quiet that I get annoyed with the fans. I'm sitting here today with the window slightly open and I can't hear the computers at all. Last night at 1am with closed window, the whole house quiet, and the outside quiet the fans were really really annoying. It's all about the level of ambient.....

You may have seen from other threads that the Aquaero has arrived and I'm starting to play with it. Looks to be very powerful but can "only" control 4 sets of fans (which is probably enough (fans in, fans out, fans cooling HDDs and CPU cooler - still not sure about that one though!). I might see what changing the BIOS controller to be much less aggressive allows me to get away with (possibly having it run much slower and have a second fan come on when it gets too hot).

I might also try a NoFan with a backup fan set to come on to cool it if temps get too high - that way, I could be passive 99%+ of the time and then get air moving around the box if things do start getting too hot... Lots to play with - when the new case comes....
 
LOL.. all that and still 9 fans on the back!

I think it would just be easier to build a fully acoustically insulated server room in the garage complete with Argon safety system...
 
arad85 said:
LOL.. all that and still 9 fans on the back!

I think it would just be easier to build a fully acoustically insulated server room in the garage complete with Argon safety system...
Click to expand...

The systems via that link were designed to look "cool", realistically you'd have a few large 180mm+ fans on a cooling radiator hanging on the outside wall of your house, not unlike the way that aircon units work. The giant glass fish tank and funky lighting would be optional.
 
So...

Everything turned up yesterday - I had it on free 5 day delivery from e-buyer. They shipped it Friday and it was delivered Saturday morning - which would have cost an arm and a leg had I actually planned it... Oh well...

So, I have just transferred everything across, and added in the Aquaero 5 into one of the 5.25" slots.

Firstly, the case is great - except it came with motherboard standoffs that are too short!! I've worked around it using washers and sent an email to Fractal (evidently, others have had the same problem...) and I'm hoping they will send another set out. Secondly, one of the disks is making the case resonate. It wouldn't be too bad, but now it is quieter than before and I can hear the resonance.... I'll sort that tomorrow.

Secondly, I really like the Aquaero. It comes with 4 temp sensors - I've put them as follows:

  • 1 hanging out the back of the case measuring ambient
  • 1 on a HDD enclosure to measure temps (I already do this in s/w but seemed line an interesting thing to do)
  • 1 on the Southbridge chip to check for overheating
  • 1 on the Voltage Reg circuitry to check for overheating

Temps with the door open and only the front fan on 5V are very respectable. I still need to keep the CPU fan on, but all others are off. Let's see what it will be like with the two side panels on tomorrow.
 
temp of components on the motherboard etc, ram are the worst issue I've hard, cutting down airflow they just sit in a slow increase of heat and then cause a crash :-(

I run a custom watercooled rig with a bunch of radiators that have no fans, but the case n psu have 5 all together
 
neil_g said:
where are the pics :|
Click to expand...
I'll do some later (after the GP ;)) but it's the same as my previous case pics - only in a larger (and hence neater at the front) case.

Just playing with seeing what the different fan speeds do to temps....
 
For you Neil...

Case:

P1010550-800.jpg


And the Aquaero 5 in place at the back of a 5.25" drive tray.

P1010547-800.jpg


The Aquaero can do data logging and produce graphs like:

simple-temps.png
 
PS. The temps are of CPU (green line) chipset (P67 in this case - black line) and CPU voltage regulators (red line). Now testing it with the top two vents open (you can just see them on the picture - squares of foam material) and the door vent unblocked.
 
neil_g said:
hard to tell so you have..

2 inlet fans at the front. 1 exhaust in bottom and 1 exhaust in rear? all controlled from the Aquaero?
Click to expand...
1 in the front, but all else correct.

The great thing about the Aquaero is that you can control when the fans come on. Currently, they are all off apart from the CPU fan. The front fan is set to come on when the HDDs reach 35 deg C, the bottom and rear fans are now set to come on gradually when the CPU reaches 55 deg. C (i.e. when actually doing some work). The temps are read out of Open Hardware Monitor as software temps. and you can have up to 8 of them (so the HDD "temp" is actually the highest temp of the 2 HDDs). The control is entirely done by the Aquaero - it's easy to fiddle with the algorithms for input temp to output action (for example, each fan has a max & min voltage so you can mix and match fans and you can also apply a kickstart voltage if the lowest voltage the fan will run at is lower than the voltage needed to start it.

I have to say, I'm quite impressed (yes, I know it was £70 by the time I bought the extortionately priced heatsink and mounting bracket, but it is a tweakers delight....).

Currently sat next to me with all fans off apart from the CPU fan idling at 550rpm , no PSU fan. All I can hear is the disks rotating and temps are idling at 30deg.... :D

Next step is probably Haswell and a passive cooler plus probably a fail-safe fan attached to a custom bracket just in case....
 
definitely very interesting.. quite fancy one (or the heatmaster 2) for my system but im finding myself in an odd place with my box at the moment.

yeah i looked at the heatsink and bracket (not that i have a spare 5.25" bay) and thought they were a tad pricey..
 
So stage 1 of investigations.

I have:
  • Fractal Define XL R2 case with R2 case fans
  • Aquaero 5, 4 temperature sensors & software
  • i7-2600K @ 4.4GHz (1.296V and 100% stable - it has been running prime95 for 7 hours flat out)
  • Scythe Ninja 3 with slipstream fan
  • Asus P8P67 board
  • Corsair AX860 PSU
  • 16G 1600 memory
  • prime95 run for at least[/i] half an hour at each setting


The case is organised as:

case.jpg


with the removable top two and side vents removed (the top vents are shown fitted in this pic - the side panel is not attached) to allow as much convective cooling as possible

You can see the Aquaero in the back of the bottom 5.25" bay. The 4 temperature sensors are split: 3 for the board, one for ambient which is held away from any of the outlets to get an idea of room ambient. The sensors are on the boards as:

p8p67-sensors.jpg


I have run the case fans at a number of constant speeds to see the effect on CPU temperature, VRM temps, chipset temps, memory temps and CPU fan speed (the CPU fan is controlled by the BIOS). The following table shows the various temperatures above ambient and CPU heatsink fan speed for each case fan speed I tried this at. These are average temps (just drawing a horizontal line through all the Aquaero graphs). Given each run of prime was done for >30 mins, they are settled temps.

table.gif


Plotting this on a graph shows:

scythe.gif


My conclusions so far:

  • You can probably get away with no case fans if you have a reasonable heatsink in a well ventilated case. Having said that...
  • A small amount of airflow in a reasonably ventilated case is 95% as efficient as a lot of forced airflow. the worst temp rise I got with no case fans was 11 degrees C above ambient (around 22-25 deg C)
  • Case fan airflow seems to have little to do with how a forced air heatsink performs in a reasonably well ventilated case, beyond just switching the fans on
  • Whilst no forced airflow at all causes the CPU heatsink to work harder, it only has a minor effect on board component temperatures in a reasonably well ventilated case

So... for me, the conclusions of this are quite interesting. Assuming a passive heatsink can cool the CPU at stock (i.e. keep it in the low-mid 70s), the rest of the components on the board will not be too stressed (remember, this testing was done at 4.4GHz and 1.296V). I'm also reasonably confident that with a small amount of airflow (e.g. 350 rpm from the case fans) that a passive cooler will become significantly more efficient (notice the RPM drop when going from convection only to a small amount of airflow) and may well allow for a reasonable overclock with a passive heatsink and inaudible case fans..

Next steps:

  • Decide if I'm going for Haswell or not
  • Purchase new mobo & heatsink... (and possibly CPU)
  • Test a NoFan vs forced air cooling
 
PS. Here is the raw temperature outputs - you can see the distinct step changes as I changed the test

scythe-temp-sensors.png


  • Green: CPU temps
  • Black: Chipset
  • Red: VRM
  • Blue: Memory
  • Orange: Ambient
 
Have to say that your VRM temps are really low...heatsinks on mine MOBO are really hot
 
bastic said:
Have to say that your VRM temps are really low...heatsinks on mine MOBO are really hot
Click to expand...
I will check the sensor placement on the VRM block when I have the cover open. It could be the contact with the heatsink is not good - or it could be that I have a board with good heatsinking!! The VRM heat does go up and down with airflow though :)

neil_g said:
very interesting.. remind me what GPU you use again?

the aquaero, is it a smidge smaller than a 5.25" faceplate?
Click to expand...
Sapphire 7750. If Nvidia did a decent 3 header that coped with monitors of different resolutions, it would be gone quicker than a quick thing. There are definitely hardware problems with running 3 monitors (that persisted when I got a completely new passive 7750 from Asus so it's not just this one).

Currently looking at mobos that have the ability to run of the internal chip graphics!!

Yup... the Aquaero is designed for a 5.25" tray. The more expensive XT/Pros use the same board as the LT but with a front panel display and fit in 5.25" trays...
 
bastic said:
Have to say that your VRM temps are really low...heatsinks on mine MOBO are really hot
Click to expand...
Aha... You were right... The gaffa tape holding the sensor on had come off :shrug:

Now doing a new test with case fans switched off - VRM and chipset at mid 40's 30 mins into the test - ambient just over 20 deg C. Will repost results later...
 
Forgot that I turned fans down yesterday....played game and after a while touched pc with my leg and almost burned myself...not sure how hot radiator was !!!
Fans on full and ask went down in matter of couple minutes
 
bastic said:
Forgot that I turned fans down yesterday....played game and after a while touched pc with my leg and almost burned myself...not sure how hot radiator was !!!
Fans on full and ask went down in matter of couple minutes
Click to expand...

Really? I've always had mine set to low and even with the dusty filters its been pretty cool.
 
neil_g said:
Really? I've always had mine set to low and even with the dusty filters its been pretty cool.
Click to expand...

Water cooled system with 7970 running at max speed under water makes water warm :)
Fans were baerly running :)
 
neil_g said:
what have you stuck the sensors down with? the cables aren't very long either :|
Click to expand...
Gaffa tape. But it is only a temporary job as I'm probably changing motherboards (I'm thinking of not trying to go fully passive, but get something that overclocks quietly and possibly go with something like a Noctua. 99.9% of the time the PC is silent now....

Plenty long enough for me, but then mine is mounted in a really handy place to put the temp sensors down.

You should also install Open Hardware Monitor as that will give you access to the CPU temps (and a few other things too) in the Aquaero via the aquaero service that runs (they are virtual sensors in the sensor box).
 
Well... new mobo and cooler ordered...

ASRock OC Formula (want 2x8 graphics lanes so I can get rid of the ATI PoS 7750 graphics card plus some other bits and pieces)
Noctua-NH-D14 2011 + NM-I3 mounting kit (went with the 2011 as it was on offer, plus it has PWM fans!)

I also have some more information on case fans and temps which I will post up later (I'm not in front of the PC all day every day you know ;))
 
arad85 said:
Well... new mobo and cooler ordered...

ASRock OC Formula (want 2x8 graphics lanes so I can get rid of the ATI PoS 7750 graphics card plus some other bits and pieces)
Noctua-NH-D14 2011 + NM-I3 mounting kit (went with the 2011 as it was on offer, plus it has PWM fans!)

I also have some more information on case fans and temps which I will post up later (I'm not in front of the PC all day every day you know ;))
Click to expand...

jesus that thing is huge :lol:
 
neil_g said:
jesus that thing is huge :lol:
Click to expand...

You know me and large coolers ;) The mono is over sized too. Will also get a new SSD just in case the is needs a reinstall (going to see if a repair will do it)
 
And the bits have arrived. I feel the need to spend half an hour in the garage checking my studio lighting still works ;)
 
A Noctua NH-D14-2011
P1010727-800.jpg


... against a Scythe Ninja 3
P1010735-800.jpg


Wot... no chip
P1010742-800.jpg


Still no chip
P1010754-800.jpg


This is what it will look like mounted....
P1010760-800.jpg
 
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