A cruel way to have your steak "well done" NSFW

Scaring an animal until exhaustion is wrong but what about other practices?

How about Running of the bulls in Pamplona to get the adrenaline going.

Mind you we have dressage, that's not normal horse behaviour to get them to dance.
How about circuses and performing animals at theme parks. Does Longleat still have it's performing parrot show?
Britains got talent was won by a dancing dog, is that normal behaviour?

You really have to wonder why a country from the so called "civillised world" permits this
 
Neil B said:
A tradition in Spain :thinking:
Animal cruelty for fun has always baffled me but the Spanish seem to enjoy a bit of torture.
I do like it when the bull manages to get one for revenge :woot:
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Morons. How they can claim the bull doesn't suffer is beyond me. Humans can be so selfish sometimes.

Not much sympathy for someone getting gored by a bull in that situation either.

Byker28i said:
Mind you we have dressage, that's not normal horse behaviour to get them to dance.
How about circuses and performing animals at theme parks. Does Longleat still have it's performing parrot show?
Britains got talent was won by a dancing dog, is that normal behaviour?
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Not sure you can compare a "dancing dog" or a "prancing horse" to torturing an animal. Those dogs and horses will be some of the best looked after pets in the country. I imagine their owners would take great care of them - unlike the owners of Spanish bulls.
 
wonder how many outraged people will be booking their holidays in spain though
 
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Byker28i said:
Scaring an animal until exhaustion is wrong but what about other practices?

How about Running of the bulls in Pamplona to get the adrenaline going.

Mind you we have dressage, that's not normal horse behaviour to get them to dance.
How about circuses and performing animals at theme parks. Does Longleat still have it's performing parrot show?
Britains got talent was won by a dancing dog, is that normal behaviour?

You really have to wonder why a country from the so called "civillised world" permits this
Click to expand...
Last time i looked, we did not burn animals heads whilst tied to a stake.

You argument is flawed,


Staff edit: unnecessary
 
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Byker28i said:
Scaring an animal until exhaustion is wrong but what about other practices?

How about Running of the bulls in Pamplona to get the adrenaline going.

Mind you we have dressage, that's not normal horse behaviour to get them to dance.
How about circuses and performing animals at theme parks. Does Longleat still have it's performing parrot show?
Britains got talent was won by a dancing dog, is that normal behaviour?

You really have to wonder why a country from the so called "civillised world" permits this
Click to expand...
The only thing I wonder is what planet are you on!
 
fracster said:
Last time i looked, we did not burn animals heads whilst tied to a stake.

You argument is flawed, Staff Removed deleted quote.
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as per usual?
Care to give examples? Do you really need to swear, or can we have a grown up discussion?

Try googling dressage and animal cruelty.
Try googling rollkur technique used in dressage
Such as http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rian-fans-threaten-boycott-2012-Olympics.html

What I'm trying to point out is that there are practices in this country seen in others as cruel and unnecessary, just as we see bull fighting.

Edit: govt to ban animals in circus
http://blog.peta.org.uk/2013/04/hurrah-government-finally-acts-to-ban-wild-animals-in-circuses/

How about the puck fair in Ireland, a 400 year old tradition to crown a goat king, lock it in a tiny cage and hoist it into the air for three days?

How about the kennel club banning dog dancing or certain moves
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/pets/9484859/Ban-on-degrading-dances-for-dogs.html
 
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There is some sick s*** carried out all over the world against animals in the name of entertainment, but this has to be one of the worst.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
The only thing I wonder is what planet are you on!
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One who tries to put forward a point for discussion, rather than simply resort to insults or provides nothing to forward the argument.

In this case we are talking about animal cruelty.
Fracster questioned:
fracster said:
You really have to wonder why a country from the so called "civillised world" permits this tradition and others like it.
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There are many examples of what some would express of animal cruelty in our country that are accepted as normal practice or tradition. In Spain, over 33000 bulls are killed every year in the bullring, along with several horses gored by the bulls. This is part of their tradition, there's over 60 bullrings in Andalucia alone and appears to be growing in popularity. This doesn't excuse the behaviour.

So the same as I told ST4 about his pigeon problem, the correct course of action is to do something about it.
I'd suggest a letter to the Spanish Ambassador

The Spanish Ambassador,
The Spanish Embassy,
24 Belgrave Square,
London SW1
 
Blimey, story of Aug 2013, makes the headlines on TP!
 
neil_g said:
Re dressage : done badly/wrong there are some cruel techniques. Most normal horse/dressage riders would agree. It's normally the minority (as with most things)
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Is a horse made to prance normal behaviour? Racing, jumping I can understand, but dressage seems to be strange behaviour.
There's been some interesting research.
McGreevy, P. D., French, N. P. & Nicol, C. J. (1995b)The prevalence of abnormal behaviours in dressage,eventing and endurance horses in relation to stabling.Veterinary Record 137, 36–7.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0103140: Prevalence of Different Head-Neck Positions in Horses Shown at Dressage Competitions and Their Relation to Conflict Behaviour and Performance Marks
 
As for fracster and his instance that i'm a (swear word) idiot as per usual

The only as per usual that I didn't spot was that Fracster frequently seems to likes to use colourful language, often misspelt to get around the filter

And of course dicks driving at 130 mph plus. - http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/just-a-quick-aaaarrrgggghhhhhh.568255/#post-6584886
up the arse of the owner. - http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/some-of-my-pics.547095/page-3#post-6583335
sweet Jesus, that is bladdy awful mate. - http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/now-thats-disgusting.568116/#post-6583077
No farkin answer, guess that says it all. - http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/wren-edited.567375/#post-6579188
I`m not bloody interested pal - http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/wren-edited.567375/#post-6579229
well done Brian, you are an utter f*****g idiot,congratulations. http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/wren-edited.567375/#post-6579318
 
Byker28i said:
Is a horse made to prance normal behaviour? Racing, jumping I can understand, but dressage seems to be strange behaviour.
There's been some interesting research.
McGreevy, P. D., French, N. P. & Nicol, C. J. (1995b)The prevalence of abnormal behaviours in dressage,eventing and endurance horses in relation to stabling.Veterinary Record 137, 36–7.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0103140: Prevalence of Different Head-Neck Positions in Horses Shown at Dressage Competitions and Their Relation to Conflict Behaviour and Performance Marks
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Is a horse dragging a cart/load around "normal/natural" behaviour?

The neck is what I was referring to mainly, done badly it can lead to early onset of arthritis (for starters) and I personally don't agree with such methods.

Otherwise dressage is nothing more than horse control and consists of nothing more that walk, trot and canter and various degrees and styles of. And a horse will never do anything it is uncomfortable with. The most extreme example I've seen a competitor try and spur on a horse until it's sides were raw and even then it would not move. That was wrong and rightly the organisers "had a word".

To suggest that dressage is fundamentally cruel would be misleading. Sure there are extreme examples and some training methods that are not "ideal" but there are many more riders (particularly at grass roots level) who would never do anything that would cause a horse harm.
 
Byker28i said:
As for fracster and his instance that i'm a (swear word) idiot as per usual

The only as per usual that I didn't spot was that Fracster frequently seems to likes to use colourful language, often misspelt to get around the filter

And of course dicks driving at 130 mph plus. - http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/just-a-quick-aaaarrrgggghhhhhh.568255/#post-6584886
up the arse of the owner. - http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/some-of-my-pics.547095/page-3#post-6583335
sweet Jesus, that is bladdy awful mate. - http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/now-thats-disgusting.568116/#post-6583077
No farkin answer, guess that says it all. - http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/wren-edited.567375/#post-6579188
I`m not bloody interested pal - http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/wren-edited.567375/#post-6579229
well done Brian, you are an utter f*****g idiot,congratulations. http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/wren-edited.567375/#post-6579318
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We may have pre-empted you a little then, after a discussion in the staff room yesterday the current 'trend' around the forum for swearing more and more is going to be clamped down on, for everyone, especially when it bypasses the filter, which is there for a reason but also even when it doesn't but the context requires it. Please feel free to rtm any new examples from here on in.
 
I shall bow to your knowledge is such areas Neil as I'm not really interested in a single horsepower :D
 
Byker28i said:
One who tries to put forward a point for discussion, rather than simply resort to insults or provides nothing to forward the argument.

In this case we are talking about animal cruelty.
Fracster questioned:


There are many examples of what some would express of animal cruelty in our country that are accepted as normal practice or tradition. In Spain, over 33000 bulls are killed every year in the bullring, along with several horses gored by the bulls. This is part of their tradition, there's over 60 bullrings in Andalucia alone and appears to be growing in popularity. This doesn't excuse the behaviour.

So the same as I told ST4 about his pigeon problem, the correct course of action is to do something about it.
I'd suggest a letter to the Spanish Ambassador

The Spanish Ambassador,
The Spanish Embassy,
24 Belgrave Square,
London SW1
Click to expand...

I'm not disputing the fact that prancing horses and dancing dogs are not normal, but how can you compare it to tying burning torches to a bulls head?
 
Bull fighting is a great tradition and custom. It's something I've personally always wanted to see and hope it's not outlawed.

I sense true outrage here but what I see is thinly veiled racism against the Spanish and their culture.

steunited said:
wonder how many outraged people will be booking their holidays in spain though
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Pmsl. Lol. As for the whole animal cruelty case, bull fighting is a sport and ancient custom. It should be protected from the green peace gaurdian reading lot in the same way fox hunting should have been.
 
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neil_g said:
Genuine question: how can you be pro fox hunting when you're against dogs that are "vicious"?
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Good question. The dogs aren't vicious to people, but to the fox. They're also working dogs, and are kept under control. It's also not done on land that effects a lot of people.

It's also an old British custom that was taken away through a vicious left wing campaign and if there's one thing that annoys me more than other people's dogs and that's the left wing.
 
ST4 said:
Bull fighting is a great tradition and custom. It's something I've personally always wanted to see and hope it's not outlawed.

I sense true outrage here but what I see is thinly veiled racism against the Spanish and their culture.




Pmsl. Lol. As for the whole animal cruelty case, bull fighting is a sport and ancient custom. It should be protected from the green peace gaurdian reading lot in the same way fox hunting should have been.
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You are not real man! How can you say complaining about animal cruelty is racism.
I can only assume you posted that remark to provoke a response.
It's like me saying that your complaint about feeding pigeons is cruelty because your actions are likely to result in the birds starving to death. In fact, that would be nearer to the truth than your racism remark.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
You are not real man! How can you say complaining about animal cruelty is racism.
I can only assume you posted that remark to provoke a response.
It's like me saying that your complaint about feeding pigeons is cruelty because your actions are likely to result in the birds starving to death.
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Given it's an old Spanish tradition and it's getting vilified on here as savage and ergo a Spanish tradition is savage then you can see the logic.

It's their country, their traditions, it's none of our business. What gives us a right to lambast their ways and customs.

Given the moral superiority thread is at volume 11/10 in this thread with an all time low signal to noise ratio who out of our outraged members are actually going to protest, write to their mp, Spanish embassy with their rhetoric and bile, or are they just going to chew up bandwidth here whining like old men about something that doesn't effects them and a whole country enjoy and support?

Heck, who's even going to boycot Spanish holidays and merchandise on here?

Ps. Final edit. Why don't we all whine on about Halal meat and get that boring debate over and done with. I'll end it, their custom, their country, their religion (re halal) who gives a toss.
 
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ST4 said:
The dogs aren't vicious to people, but to the fox.
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Ah a good old case of double standards then. It aint harming me so stuff em, right. ;)

It's also an old British custom that was taken away through a vicious left wing campaign and if there's one thing that annoys me more than other people's dogs and that's the left wing.
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Or maybe people considered a fox being ripped apart by a pack of dogs slightly cruel.

Another good old fashioned British pass time was torturing people under the assumption they were a witch and/or devil worshiper. Fortunately we figured out that was a tad barbaric... ;)
 
ST4 said:
Bull fighting is a great tradition and custom. It's something I've personally always wanted to see and hope it's not outlawed.

I sense true outrage here but what I see is thinly veiled racism against the Spanish and their culture.




Pmsl. Lol. As for the whole animal cruelty case, bull fighting is a sport and ancient custom. It should be protected from the green peace gaurdian reading lot in the same way fox hunting should have been.
Click to expand...

Burning witches at the stake is an ancient custom but I suspect even someone trolling the way you do wouldn't condone such actions today. You are welcome to your strange opinions but we know you are posting simply to stir a reaction given you have deliberately related a loathing of animal cruelty to racism when it simply isn't there. So this is your last warning Steve, pack it in.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
I'm not disputing the fact that prancing horses and dancing dogs are not normal, but how can you compare it to tying burning torches to a bulls head?
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It's different magnitudes of animal cruelty. I'm not trying to compare it as like for like, but point out that what some see as right, or traditional, is seen as animal cruelty by others. These were all examples PETA have claimed are cruel practices. I didn't even chose the easy example of hare coursing or fox hunting, which although declared illegal still happens and is seen as acceptable by some.

In Thailand I saw adverts for cock fighting and orangutang boxing...

The flaming torches is blatantly wrong, but given the Spanish attitude towards bulls, they don't see it's wrong. So the only way to really stop it is direct action and publicity (I.e. Tie yourself to the bull whilst being filmed by the worlds press) or try to change opinion somehow.

There are organisations out there trying to stop bull fighting, approach them about this practise, write to the ambassador, take some action if you feel strongly.

Just don't expect me to get too worked up about a comment on an Internet forum. It seems to be the modern way to be inflamed about something, write a couple of comments on a forum, then the next day move on and forget it.

A few years ago I was challenged and took action about something I believed strongly in. So this is the challenge, for those of you outraged, do something.
 
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Yv said:
Burning witches at the stake is an ancient custom but I suspect even someone trolling the way you do wouldn't condone such actions today. You are welcome to your strange opinions but we know you are posting simply to stir a reaction given you have deliberately related a loathing of animal cruelty to racism when it simply isn't there. So this is your last warning Steve, pack it in.
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You might see my views as strange but they are genuinely mine. If the topic had been Halal meat or something no one would consider my reaction strange.

Whilst I understand I'm in a minority on here I doubt the Spanish view on the subject won't echo mine?

Edited for grammar
 
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ST4 said:
You might see my views as strange but they are genuinely mine. If the topic had been Halal meat or something no one would consider my reaction strange.

Whilst I understand I'm in a minority on here I doubt the Spanish view on the subject echos mine.
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So tell me, did you get the point of my post? Just in case, I will reiterate it - It isn't your opinion that bull fighting is acceptable, it is poking everyone by saying they are racist by thinking it is. That is the trollish part, so as I said, pack it in, or you may well find yourself with time to head to Spain thanks to a forum holiday.
 
ST4 said:
As for the whole animal cruelty case, bull fighting is a sport and ancient custom. It should be protected from the green peace gaurdian reading lot in the same way fox hunting should have been.
Click to expand...

As I have mentioned here before, bullfighting is NOT a sport. It does NOT feature in the sports pages of newspapers, but is in the culture section. It is not classified by law as a sport, but has legally protected status as "an unquestionable part of Spanish cultural heritage" as well as "undoubted importance as an economic and business activity". It also has similar legally protected status in certain French regions (so those that are quick to jump on an anti-Spain crusade can also direct their rage at France).
The original post wasn't even about bullfighting.
 
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steunited said:
wonder how many outraged people will be booking their holidays in spain though
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Things like this story and bull fighting are reasons why we won't visit Spain. The ancient Cretans used to indulge in a form of bull based entertainment but that involved vaulting over the bull rather than taunting it, stabbing it with barbed spikes, burning it etc..
 
Nod said:
Things like this story and bull fighting are reasons why we won't visit Spain. The ancient Cretans used to indulge in a form of bull based entertainment but that involved vaulting over the bull rather than taunting it, stabbing it with barbed spikes, burning it etc..
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Just Spain? Or France or many countries in Latin America too?
 
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Yv said:
So tell me, did you get the point of my post? Just in case, I will reiterate it - It isn't your opinion that bull fighting is acceptable, it is poking everyone by saying they are racist by thinking it is. That is the trollish part, so as I said, pack it in, or you may well find yourself with time to head to Spain thanks to a forum holiday.
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:clap:
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Just Spain? Or France or many countries in Latin America too?
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Anywhere where deliberate animal cruelty is seen as fun (as a national "tradition" rather than a few mindless idiots.)
 
Nod said:
Anywhere where deliberate animal cruelty is seen as fun (as a national "tradition" rather than a few mindless idiots.)
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exactly! It is nothing to do with nationality or race, and everything to do with animal cruelty for entertainment regardless of where it happens. Animal cruelty for food is bad enough [and no, I am not a vegetarian], for entertainment feels much worse, though maybe it shouldn't because neither are pleasant.
 
Nod said:
Things like this story and bull fighting are reasons why we won't visit Spain. The ancient Cretans used to indulge in a form of bull based entertainment but that involved vaulting over the bull rather than taunting it, stabbing it with barbed spikes, burning it etc..
Click to expand...

Bull leaping happens in spain too

 
The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything - Albert Einstein
 
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