A cruel way to have your steak "well done" NSFW

ST4 said:
Yes. They are classed as Vermin.
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no they arent - they are covered by the general licence under the wildlife and countryside act , which permits authorised persons to kill them or destroy their nests if they can demonstrate that the pigeons are causing significant loss, damage, or nuisance... theres no such thing as a vermin register, nor does the law say anything about feeding them.

bylaws can prohibit it in certain areas, and if uneaten food is left someone could be prosecuted/fixed penaltied for littering .. but feeding them per se is not illegal
 
ST4 said:
Yes. They are classed as Vermin.
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Rubbish.
It is not illegal to feed pigeons.
Some cities and boroughs discourage it and are empowered to issue punitive penalties where those rules are laid out, but it is not illegal.
 
big soft moose said:
no they arent - they are covered by the general licence under the wildlife and countryside act , which permits authorised persons to kill them or destroy their nests if they can demonstrate that the pigeons are causing significant loss, damage, or nuisance... theres no such thing as a vermin register, nor does the law say anything about feeding them.

bylaws can prohibit it in certain areas, and if uneaten food is left someone could be prosecuted/fixed penaltied for littering .. but feeding them per se is not illegal
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Cobra said:
They are descendants from the Rock dove
and hybridised with "escaped" racing pigeons.

Feral pigeons (Town pigeons) are vermin.
(So are Wood pigeons come to that)
The council have a duty of care to protect people from the
mess they make, with their droppings.

Not only do it burn into buildings staining them,
but they also CAN carry diseases.
such as Chiamdiosis, Psittacosis,
Avian flu and Salmonella to name 4.
(there are many more)

That why there is good money to be earned in proofing buildings,
controlled culls and flying BoP as deterrents in town
centres ;)

Ken Livingstone declared "open war" on them some years ago.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...are-flocking-to-trafalgar-square-2041675.html
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Hmm
 
ST4 said:
Hmm. Littering is illegal. Which this is.
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So let me get this right.....you're re-writing laws now, so suit your own needs?
Classic.
 
ST4 said:
Hmm
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i'm not sure what your point is - chris having been contracted would be an authorised person under the WCA .. he may consider them vermin but there is no legal classification of 'vermin' any more (there used to be but the law changed when the general licence conditions were tightened up) , however even when the 'vermin register' existed there was still no law against feeding them.

Littering is an offence under the environmental protection act 1990 (sect 87 and 88) , but feeding pigeons is not littering per se s so long as the pigeons eat the food a person is not causing the 'discarded object' ie the food, to remain on the public land ... so the EPA can only be used if someone is feeding excessively to the point that uneaten food remains onthe ground.

its also worth noting that this is a civil offence not a criminal one so its not really illegal per se - the fixed penalty notice is issued by the council not the police, and if it isnt paid the council take the matter to civil court.
 
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ST4 said:
Can you please tell me where I said I was frightened of pigeons. I think my view on them is that of the law, people shouldn't feed them.
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Bobsyeruncle said:
Does the law actually state that its illegal to feed them though?
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ST4 said:
Yes. They are classed as Vermin.
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That is my problem.
You were wrong, but are so small a person that you are incapable of admitting it.
The act of feeding pigeons is not, in itself, an illegal one.
 
viv1969 said:
That is my problem.
You were wrong, but are so small a person that you are incapable of admitting it.
The act of feeding pigeons is not, in itself, an illegal one.
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Littering the pavement is, which is what they are doing. There's probably a breach of the peace, public order related offence there too never mind any bylaws the council have issued.There is an excess of food left, I checked the area afterwards and made the council and police also aware

As it were, I've not seen her do it. So rejoice. It's not a complete nuisance to walk to work now.
 
ST4 said:
Littering the pavement is, which is what they are doing. There's probably a breach of the peace, public order related offence there too never mind any bylaws the council have issued.There is an excess of food left, I checked the area afterwards and made the council and police also aware

As it were, I've not seen her do it. So rejoice. It's not a complete nuisance to walk to work now.
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I rest my case. :facepalm:
 
ST4 said:
Littering the pavement is, which is what they are doing. .
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only if food remains on the ground after the birds leave :bang: tbh having seen the state of sauchiehall street of an evening, I doubt a little bird food makes much difference amonst all the beer cans, chip wrappers, and puddles of vomit.

incidentally if you've really got nothing better to do you can request an order under sect 91 of the EPA 1990 (and the scottish code of conduct on littering 2006) stating that you are offended by the bird food left on the ground and requiring the council to make every effort to clean it more regularly
 
Agreed there is no specific law that defines vermin any more.
At one time Vermin were animals, and pest species were insects.
(Generally)
I believe that when DEFRA became natural England,
a few years ago, that they were all grouped together and "More politely"
all called "pest species".

The name may have changed but the classification remains the same.
The Oxford says
Vermin.
Wild animals which are believed to be harmful to crops,
farm animals, or game, or which carry disease, e.g. rodents.

Pest
A destructive insect or other animal that attacks crops, food, livestock, etc.

GLC issued a bye law that actually does make feeding pigeons against the law,
in Trafalgar square. Whether or not other bye laws exist,
in other problem area's I don't know.






 
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Cobra said:
Agreed there is no specific law that defines vermin any more.
At one time Vermin were animals, and pest species were insects.
(Generally)
I believe that when DEFRA became natural England,
a few years ago, that they were all grouped together and "More politely"
all called "pest species".
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I have a feeling that it was the NERC act 2006 which made the ammendment to the CROW act 2000 when they also tightened the general licence restrictions to 'substantial loss, damage, or nuisance' to stop for example people shooting magpies in their gardens just because they don't like them. (it also removed starlings and jays from the list of quarry species and various other minor ammendments iirc )
 
I can of assumed we were talking about bread - but thats no different to all the other discarded crap in the street , imo the pigeons are doing a public service in clearing it up
 
Cobra said:
I believe that when DEFRA became natural England,
a few years ago, that they were all grouped together and "More politely"
all called "pest species".
Click to expand...

big soft moose said:
I have a feeling that it was the NERC act 2006 which made the ammendment to the CROW act 2000 when they also tightened the general licence restrictions to 'substantial loss, damage, or nuisance' to stop for example people shooting magpies in their gardens just because they don't like them. (it also removed starlings and jays from the list of quarry species and various other minor ammendments iirc )
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I thought the CRoW act was a rights of way issue and not a pest issue?
And as above NE came into being late 2006.

Starlings were removed from the general licence, in 2005 giving them protected status.
Jays are still on it.
 
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big soft moose said:
I can of assumed we were talking about bread - but thats no different to all the other discarded crap in the street , imo the pigeons are doing a public service in clearing it up
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TBH I'd rather have the bread than the several (Zoonotic) disease that pigeons carry
Chiamdiosis, psittacosis, histoplasmosis, cryptococcosis, chlamydia psittaci and campylobacter jejuni.
And thats just for openers, as for salmonella, well we are all aware of that one.
 
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Cobra said:
I thought the CRoW act was a rights of way issue and not a pest issue?
And as above NE came into being late 2006.

Starlings were removed from the general licence, in 2005 giving them protected status.
Jays are still on it.
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Countryside and rights of way act 2000 was both rights of way and an update to the WCA which was somewhat over due as the last update before that was the 1985 ammendment act, the Natural Environment and rural communities act 2006 (or possibly 05 I forget which) had various ammendments to CRoW including turnning boats and rupps to restricted byways, ammending the general licence terms to include the term 'substantial' instead of just nuisance , and removing starlings. (there were a raft of other things in NERC it was a real rag bag act)
 
Cobra said:
TBH I'd rather have the bread than the several (Zoonotic) disease that pigeons carry
Chiamdiosis, psittacosis, histoplasmosis, cryptococcosis, chlamydia psittaci and campylobacter jejuni.
And thats just for openers, as for salmonella, well we are all aware of that one.
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this is true - but unless you interfere with them in an unatural and ungodly way ,pretty much the only way to get those diseases from them is to either breath in their excrement or get it on your hands andnot wash it off before touching your mouth or eyes... and most of us dont generally make a habit of eating pigeon poop
 
big soft moose said:
this is true - but unless you interfere with them in an unatural and ungodly way ,pretty much the only way to get those diseases from them is to either breath in their excrement or get it on your hands andnot wash it off before touching your mouth or eyes... and most of us dont generally make a habit of eating pigeon poop
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Most of my "issues" are in and around shopping centres where they roost above the stores in the hope
that some kind sole will actually drop something useful.
They roost on high and albeit rare, crap on passers by.
This time of year especially, droppings remain moist and are a slip hazard and in some circumstances
carry some of the diseases I mentioned above.
Its not pleasant for a child to face plant in the droppings.

Lets face it, if people didn't think there was an issue,
chunks of budgets wouldn't be spent on proofing deterrent and culling.

And although the name has changed
They are still vermin, and a hoover is still a vacuum cleaner.
 
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Cobra said:
Its not pleasant for a child to face plant in the droppings.
.
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Depends on the child - i can think of some i'd be very happy to see do that ;)
 
ST4 said:
Whilst I understand other peoples children can be very annoying I wouldn't wish them to end up being seriously ill.
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doesnt being shot in the face cause serious illness ?
 
Acute lead poisoning?
 
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