500mm vs 600mm

Gaz J said:
To get the best out of your gear you sometimes need to put in some effort to brush up on technique / tweak your lens/body combo. I know that some combinations dont seem to gel that well but top glass from Nikon and Canon should produce the goods with or with out TC's.
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Agree 100%.
I think most issues come from not being able to get enough SS for the FL/Stability... Using a tripod w/ a gimbal head is *not* the same thing as using a tripod locked down...it's really just more of a support for the weight (even locked down a Gimbal seems more "wobbly").

AFMA can be of benefit if done well and for a specific situation. It can also make things worse.... FWIW, I didn't find FoCal Pro to be very good w/ really long lenses.
 
ndwgolf said:
The guy that bought my TC's has just put them up for sale after 6 weeks ..............guess he doesn't like them either :):):)
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I'm not really understanding your way of thinking on this issue ndwgolf? There is clear and massive evidence from both amateurs and professionals all over that TCs work and are worth it.
It would benefit your photography to ask "why is it not working for me? and how can i rectify this?" instead of straight up trying to dismiss it as fact that they are terrible and worthless.

Finding out why something is going wrong, finding out how to solve it, solving it, and then having something extra in your arsenal as a result of that process is a key skill to improving your photography and also so many other things in life.

Having the option of longer focal ranges when you use primes is a MASSIVE advantage to you.
 

The Blue-grey Gnatcatcher is an attractive bird, Gnatcatchers seem to have their own family and genus ……. but they look like our Warblers apart from the beak - nice shot
 
sk66 said:
Agree 100%.
.. FWIW, I didn't find FoCal Pro to be very good w/ really long lenses.
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don't tell me that now I have just spent £70 ……. but maybe it is OK at up to 300mm
Did you test with and without TC's
 
Joe, not sure what you mean - the Kingfisher was taken with the 200-400mm + 2x. As I said before, 1.4 works with most tele lenses very well, generally.

EDIT: You need to click on the cropped images to get a true 100% view. They get re-sized automatically by the forum software by default.
 
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I've tried a friends lens align and it works ok but I really didn't find it any better than the DIY set up I used before so I didn't buy one.
I use 5 high contrast small tins (Colmans mustard tins actually) which are set at 45 degrees on a square of MDF. The MDF has lines drawn on it at 5 cm intervals. I place the front edge of each tin on a line so I have a depth of field 10 cm in front and 10 cm behind the middle tin.
Then I set up the camera at 25 times the focal distance on a direct line and at the same height as the centre tin.
Then I shoot wide open and check the screen. I find that it takes 10 minutes max to get the adjustment pretty much spot on. I usually take 4 images each time as there will be an odd one that is out.
I know that the DOF on my 500 @ f4 focused at 12.5 metres is around 14 cms so I should see the centre tin and the first tin in front and first tin behind in focus and the others drifting OOF.
Once I'm happy then I take a series of pics wide open at various distances and angles as a final check. Simples and cheap
 
dragonfly said:
Joe, not sure what you mean - the Kingfisher was taken with the 200-400mm + 2x. As I said before, 1.4 works with most tele lenses very well, generally.

EDIT: You need to click on the cropped images to get a true 100% view. They get re-sized automatically by the forum software by default.
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How do you find the AF Speed with 2x on the 200-400mm for tracking subjects etc. ? :)
 
Joe, the 2x is not great when it comes to AF speed, on a f4 lens. It's possible on larger, slower animals/birds.

The Sigma 500mm is very compact. Bokeh not brill - if that's important to you, and AF very poor or impossible with TC. I owned one many years ago with a D300 body.
 
I also had an early Sigma 500 4.5. on D300. IMO, about 1 stop down on IQ from OEM wide open. I had no issues w/ a Sigma 1.4 but 2x was a no-go (over f/8). Most of my Sigmas don't play well with Nikon TC's and vice-versa... But I don't recall it being as bad as it is now with current models.
 
BillN_33 said:
don't tell me that now I have just spent £70 ……. but maybe it is OK at up to 300mm
Did you test with and without TC's
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Yes w/ w/o TC's... they recommend using max aperture and 50x FL distance. That's 15m for a 300 and 40m for 800.. quite difficult to set up at those distances. I kept getting inconsistent results/failures.

What I do now is "green dot" AFMA and I will fine tune it for the primary working distance if I switch from long to short or something like that.
 
postcardcv said:
I currently use a 500 f4 and have been very happy with it but every now and again I get tempted to change up to the 600 f4. Anyone shot with both and got any opinions? It would be used for wildlife (mainly birds) and my current tripod would still be fine with the bigger lens. Is the extra reach worth the extra weight?
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Peter it kind of looks like your thread has been hijacked; Did you get any info that will help you make your mind up as to whether you will get the 600mm or not. I emailed a couple of professional wildlife and birding photographers and asked that very question and all 3 of them recommended the 600mm over the 500mm.....................so I will get myself a 600mm in September along with a 1.4 TC and will post up some pictures when I get it.
You may ask why I am getting a 1.4 TC after all my bitching…………….well if it’s good enough for those guys then it sure as hell better be good enough for me. We will find out :):)
 
ndwgolf said:
Peter it kind of looks like your thread has been hijacked; Did you get any info that will help you make your mind up as to whether you will get the 600mm or not. I emailed a couple of professional wildlife and birding photographers and asked that very question and all 3 of them recommended the 600mm over the 500mm.....................so I will get myself a 600mm in September along with a 1.4 TC and will post up some pictures when I get it.
You may ask why I am getting a 1.4 TC after all my bitching…………….well if it’s good enough for those guys then it sure as hell better be good enough for me. We will find out :):)
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Neil, the Canon 600mm is supposed to be the best "birding" lens ever …….. light weight and fantastic IQ and has been stated above the Canon TC's are better than Nikon TC's

Time to sell your D4S, D3S and the D800E that you are going to buy
 
ndwgolf said:
You may ask why I am getting a 1.4 TC after all my bitching…………….well if it’s good enough for those guys then it sure as hell better be good enough for me. We will find out :):)
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But I thought you said all TC's inc. the 1.4x converter downgrade quality by 30% and AF speed by 50% in your big bold statements?

ndwgolf said:
Joe,
using TC's (any of them) will downgrade the IQ of the immage by at least 30%.......it will also effect the AF by about 50%..............................Head to the gym and work on your sholders and arms and you will be fine with a600mm f4 :):)
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ndwgolf said:
Ade
I am not wrong I am speaking from experiance, I tried all the TC's on my new 300mm f2.8 and they degrade the picture IQ by ~30% and like I also said they also mess with AF by 50% ........................I cant speak for a 4 or 500 as I dont have them but on a 300mm they are crap pal
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ndwgolf said:
Wrong I am stating facts.........you want to use TC's "go ahead" knock yourself out. For me I don't like them..............nuff said
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You change your mind like I change clothes mate :p
 
sk66 said:
Yes w/ w/o TC's... they recommend using max aperture and 50x FL distance. That's 15m for a 300 and 40m for 800.. quite difficult to set up at those distances. I kept getting inconsistent results/failures.

What I do now is "green dot" AFMA and I will fine tune it for the primary working distance if I switch from long to short or something like that.
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Thanks for that, really encouraging as the camera and the centre of the chart have to be at exactly the same height
 
Bill
No need to sell anything. The D3s is 95% gone. just need to collect the cash and will get the 600 in September. As for the 1.4 TC I never had one of those so will try it after listening to the comments BS on this page
 
ndwgolf said:
Peter it kind of looks like your thread has been hijacked; Did you get any info that will help you make your mind up as to whether you will get the 600mm or not. I emailed a couple of professional wildlife and birding photographers and asked that very question and all 3 of them recommended the 600mm over the 500mm.....................so I will get myself a 600mm in September along with a 1.4 TC and will post up some pictures when I get it.
You may ask why I am getting a 1.4 TC after all my bitching…………….well if it’s good enough for those guys then it sure as hell better be good enough for me. We will find out :):)
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Neil, I found the the bulk and weight not worth the extra 100mm. I normally carry the 500mm in my backpack onto the plane easily when I travel but not so with the 600mm. I just want to point this out as I can see you travel regularly between UK & M'sia. These two factors are also apparent on long hikes. Unless you shoot action regularly, I think you may want to consider the D800/e with it's various crop modes for extra reach.
 
I Had the 500f4 and nearly always needed a 1.4tc this was on a 1dmk3 and a 7d I now have the 600f4mkII and a 1dx and nearly always need a 1.4tc .

so not a lot has changed apart from better IQ / AF Funny game when you like bird photography :)
Rob.
 
ndwgolf said:
Peter it kind of looks like your thread has been hijacked; Did you get any info that will help you make your mind up as to whether you will get the 600mm or not. I emailed a couple of professional wildlife and birding photographers and asked that very question and all 3 of them recommended the 600mm over the 500mm.....................so I will get myself a 600mm in September along with a 1.4 TC and will post up some pictures when I get it.
You may ask why I am getting a 1.4 TC after all my bitching…………….well if it’s good enough for those guys then it sure as hell better be good enough for me. We will find out :):)
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I think I have made up my mind to stick with the 500. Having looked at the mkI 600 the extra weight would be a slight issue but the extra size would be even more so. I like shooting from my car and also from a hide and think I would struggle to move the 600 about in these confined spaces. I have been using the 500 for a number of years and really like it so why risk changing for something that might not suit my shooting. If only I could afford to have both...
 
postcardcv said:
I think I have made up my mind to stick with the 500. Having looked at the mkI 600 the extra weight would be a slight issue but the extra size would be even more so. I like shooting from my car and also from a hide and think I would struggle to move the 600 about in these confined spaces. I have been using the 500 for a number of years and really like it so why risk changing for something that might not suit my shooting. If only I could afford to have both...
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I think you've made a good decision...
 
In the article I've linked to above the guy recommends calibrating the lens at the distance that you normally use it. I do mine at 12.5 meters as that is about the max range that i normally use it at. I have a setting for 30 metres though which is different from the 12.5 one.
 
I think Canon's have more settings for AFMA... like multiple FL's for zooms. Nikon just has one setting/lens. But they do recognize a lens+TC as a "different lens" so you can have multiple AFMA's for w-w/o various TC combinations. (probably requires a reporting TC)
 
^^^^^^ maybe getting one in two weeks time.......just swithering over getting a Sony ar7 but I am sure I will have a D800e in a few weeks time
 
ndwgolf said:
Thanks for the info George.............the only date I have is the 6th August for the Ile of May.....fingers crossed
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Neil, going back to a previous post where you mentioned the Isle of May, I was out there yesterday and checked about early August...you should still be ok for the birds then, it's about the end of the season but that's usually about the 12th August (just when the grouse have to watch their backsides...!!).
The puffins were just starting to bring sand eels in for the chicks ...yesterday was the first day they'd done that.
I reiterate what I said earlier, they are so fast, I find tracking them (panning) in flight is a bit of a hit and miss affair, I'd be amazed if it could be done even with a gimbal head, I'd suggest handheld, I was using a 70-200 2.8 plus 1.4, and got a lot of keepers, but will have to crop on most up to 100% to get detail, for the flight shots.

There weren't any static birds, however from previous experience, I've got excellent results with a focal length of 400mm, 600 would be fine but you'd certainly want something shorter and lighter both for the static shots and flight shots.

If you want any more info, I can PM my phone no.

Dare I say, as ever, the Canon extenders worked very well!!

George.
 
Thanks George
That's fantastic news I am in Edinburgh on the 5th then Ile of May the 6th. I guess worst case scenario if the puffins are gone there will be other birds on the island?
 
ndwgolf said:
Thanks George
That's fantastic news I am in Edinburgh on the 5th then Ile of May the 6th. I guess worst case scenario if the puffins are gone there will be other birds on the island?
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Yea, a few, but most will be wearing trousers......seriously, I think you'll get puffins ok, sadly I won't be around to show you how good Canon extenders are, but please take on board my comments re lenses, and I look forward to hearing how it goes, send me a PM when you've been as I'm interested to know the situation at that time of the year.

George.
 
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I've read this thread with great interest.
This was taken with a canon 1D mkiv 600mm f4 + 1.4x t.c. On a gitzo tripod with a wimberley mkii gimbal.
Very easy shot to get. If you miss one there's another already on its way.
These were taken on the farne Islands last year, hoping to get back next couple of weeks.
 
George said:
Yea, a few, but most will be wearing trousers......seriously, I think you'll get puffins ok, sadly I won't be around to show you how good Canon extenders are, but please take on board my comments re lenses, and I look forward to hearing how it goes, send me a PM when you've been as I'm interested to know the situation at that time of the year.

George.
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Cheers will do mate
 
I've read this thread with great interest.
This was taken with a canon 1D mkiv 600mm f4 + 1.4x t.c. On a gitzo tripod with a wimberley mkii gimbal.
Very easy shot to get. If you miss one there's another already on its way.
These were taken on the farne Islands last year, hoping to get back next couple of weeks.[/quote]

Great shots, Paul, looks like on the Farne island you can get more in line with the birds coming in, one of the problems on the Isle of May is that the burrows are mostly well below the path (which of course you can't leave) and so you are trying to shoot sometimes against the grass or cliffs, rather than the sky. Are the shots cropped?

George.
 
George said:
I've read this thread with great interest.
This was taken with a canon 1D mkiv 600mm f4 + 1.4x t.c. On a gitzo tripod with a wimberley mkii gimbal.
Very easy shot to get. If you miss one there's another already on its way.
These were taken on the farne Islands last year, hoping to get back next couple of weeks.
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Great shots, Paul, looks like on the Farne island you can get more in line with the birds coming in, one of the problems on the Isle of May is that the burrows are mostly well below the path (which of course you can't leave) and so you are trying to shoot sometimes against the grass or cliffs, rather than the sky. Are the shots cropped?

George.[/quote]

No I don't think they're cropped , so long ago I don't remember.
A lot of the time the puffins are against messy backgrounds too. I just chose those two as they were the first I came across. I'm sure if you get to photograph them you won't have too much trouble. They are great subjects.


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I did this last one just for a bit of fun.

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(even locked down a Gimbal seems more "wobbly").

Can't say I've ever noticed that with mine. Use it all the time with my 500.
 
Rock solid with both, Neil.
 
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