Zoo's good or bad?

big soft moose said:
I'd suspect most camera bags are vegan compliant arent they (excepting the billingham leather ones) they seem to mostly made of nylon or other artificial fibres ( a harder question is are they made with child,political prisoner, or otherwise exploited labor in sweatshops and so on)
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If they have rubber or plastic constituent parts, probably not.
 
For someone who repeatedly says they have left the topic, htid seems to still be here.
 
I'm not responding, I was just reading the rest of the comments which aren't related to the topic.
 
I meant you keep on saying you aren't going to reply and then do.

Either way, your viewpoint is nuttier than a bag of squirrels and has more holes than Swiss cheese.
 
@big soft moose this is just a normal shoulder bag for the ladies (or gents, it's not particularly gendered) might flog it as i hardly use it. but it just gave me the joy of the shopper :-D
 
viv1969 said:
If they have rubber or plastic constituent parts, probably not.
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why arent plastic or rubber parts vegan compliant - its synthetic after all
 
big soft moose said:
why arent plastic or rubber parts vegan compliant - its synthetic after all
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Plastics and rubbers often contain casein and other animal fats, and to make them blacker, a pigment made with ground cattle bone and dried marrow is used.
Not in all of course, but in many.
 
you may or may not remember i mentioned hearing a talk by Will Travers from Born Free about a zoo that spent millions of $ on a new elephant enclosure which offered no 'conservation' benefit - was just a way to attract more people to the zoo, and how frustrated he was on how that money could have been spent to help wild elephants for actual conservation.

this is along those lines - a comment about a new tiger enclosure at london zoo

http://www.bornfree.org.uk/blog/2016/land-of-the-lions-the-conservation-claims-of-zoos/

i still cant find info on the elephant thing - but it was a similar line of thinking re: building to make profit and calling it conservation, and actual ways to use that kind of money for conservation.
 
dan_yell said:
you may or may not remember i mentioned hearing a talk by Will Travers from Born Free about a zoo that spent millions of $ on a new elephant enclosure which offered no 'conservation' benefit - was just a way to attract more people to the zoo, and how frustrated he was on how that money could have been spent to help wild elephants for actual conservation.
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I'm quite a fan of zoo's as you probably guessed, but if that's true, then that is certainly taking the p*** :(
 
htid said:
I have 100% green electricity etc.
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I'm intrigued - what form of electricity is 100% green? AFAIK, ALL means of energy production have some detrimental effect on the environment, be it solar power, wind, tidal or whatever.
 
Nod said:
I'm intrigued - what form of electricity is 100% green? AFAIK, ALL means of energy production have some detrimental effect on the environment, be it solar power, wind, tidal or whatever.
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static electricity
 
dan_yell said:
you may or may not remember i mentioned hearing a talk by Will Travers from Born Free about a zoo that spent millions of $ on a new elephant enclosure which offered no 'conservation' benefit - was just a way to attract more people to the zoo, and how frustrated he was on how that money could have been spent to help wild elephants for actual conservation.
.
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I think that was Berlin , if i recall correctly Gerald Durrell mentioned it in his book about zoos (the stationary ark I think) - as recall the elephant house was designed to look like a group of elephants at a watering hole and the whole thing was a form over function ego stroking for the director and architects.

I'm pretty much a fan of zoos that do things properly (jersey being a key example) but less so of those who see their mission as a visitor offer rather than as conservation with the visitors paying the way
 
@big soft moose this was a recent new elephant enclosure & it was in the states, but don't seem to be a place it, it way after Gerald passed. I spent a lot of time as a kid at Jersey zoo (dodo club alumni!) I'm not sure on how their funding is spent but I'm sure it's better than most.

@Cobra I must find what one it was, it's really anoyibg me. Will said the elephants were not of breeding age and we're likely to be quite old so he was shocked at the amount of money spent and sounded so frustrated at the amount and all that could have been done with it in the wild
 
dan_yell said:
@big soft moose this was a recent new elephant enclosure & it was in the states, d
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are you sure it was stateside ? looking at the born free site most of their ire seems to be directed at Copenhagen where the elephant enclosure allegedly cost 23 million but they say doesn't include grass

although extensive googling also brought up Dallas Zoo spending 1 million USD on a metal sculpture of an Elephant

and Henry Doorly Zoo in Omaha spending 73 million on its "african graslands exhibit" including 15 million on the elephant enclosure (Henry Doorly are also one of the zoos involved in the 18 Eles bring taken from the wild in swaziland - which was pretty f*****g poor imo)
 
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Nod said:
I'm intrigued - what form of electricity is 100% green? AFAIK, ALL means of energy production have some detrimental effect on the environment, be it solar power, wind, tidal or whatever.
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I assume it is fuelled by bulls**t
 
@big soft moose for some reason i had in my head that it was NYC area, but dont seem to be able to find evidence of that, only that the are a s*** zoo so i've obviusly made that up. annoying brain!!

sad that there elephants being taken from sri lanka to NZ zoo too
 
dan_yell said:
but dont seem to be able to find evidence of that, only that the are a s*** zoo
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Cue the old favourite, I went to a zoo recently, they only had one animal and that was a dog ...
It truly was a Shih Tzu

:coat:
 
end of the day it could be virtually anywhere - LA zoo alledgely spent 42M USD, Bronx Zoo had plans to spend 80M USD but decided to phase out its Eles instead .... seems like elephant enclosures are just really expensive
 
SF zoo is one of the worst I've ever visited.
No reason other than clearly bored animals, clear from their behaviour.
 
I would like zoos ... if they charged less for a ticket.

They should have a day (maybe once a month) where the lions get to hunt the deer. That'd keep 'em both healthier I reckon, except for the dead one of course.
 
Ulfric M Douglas said:
I would like zoos ... if they charged less for a ticket.
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I agree "day rates" are quite extortionate :(

Ulfric M Douglas said:
They should have a day (maybe once a month) where the lions get to hunt the deer. That'd keep 'em both healthier I reckon,
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At Whipsnade they have deer in the next paddock to the Lions and the Cheetah's and Wild Boar next to the Lynx.
I asked once, "why?" and apparently it is all part of the environmental enrichment for both prey and predators, I'm not a 100% convinced that the prey would agree though :D
 
big soft moose said:
end of the day it could be virtually anywhere - LA zoo alledgely spent 42M USD, Bronx Zoo had plans to spend 80M USD but decided to phase out its Eles instead .... seems like elephant enclosures are just really expensive
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maybe it was the Bronx Zoo, that sounds like a suitably large amount.
 
BillN_33 said:
static electricity
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Which creates Ozone which isn't too good for us. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone )

Cobra said:
At Whipsnade they have deer in the next paddock to the Lions and the Cheetah's and Wild Boar next to the Lynx. I asked once, "why?" and apparently it is all part of the environmental enrichment for both prey and predators, I'm not a 100% convinced that the prey would agree though :D
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At Dartmoor Zoo, there are sometimes sheep in the field behind the Tigers' enclosure and both the Tigers and the Cheetah rather enjoy looking at the menu, although the Tigers are both captive bred (at the DZP) (not sure about the Cheetah.) Their relatively new Jaguar especially likes watching the children as well as stalking the keepers as they walk down the side of the enclosure. For his enrichment, they occasionally feed him whole heads - ponies', bullocks' etc.. Makes a hell of a crunch when his teeth go through!
 
Nod said:
For his enrichment, they occasionally feed him whole heads - ponies', bullocks' etc.. Makes a hell of a crunch when his teeth go through!
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They have pretty much stopped feeding the larger animals when people are about :(
When they had wolves at Whipsnade ( they have all been euthanasia recently due to ill health :( ) if I got in there at opening time, I'd just catch a leg of something being thrown over the fence.
I've not even seen the Lynx or the wolverines fed quail or DoC's in a long time.
Let alone the Cheetahs being fed Chickens or rabbit!

I bet some arses complained :(
 
odd - feeding the big animals is a major feature at dartmoor, of course Benjamin Mee is probably more able to tell sensitive complaining flowers to take a hike
 
Cobra said:
They have pretty much stopped feeding the larger animals when people are about :(
When they had wolves at Whipsnade ( they have all been euthanasia recently due to ill health :( ) if I got in there at opening time, I'd just catch a leg of something being thrown over the fence.
I've not even seen the Lynx or the wolverines fed quail or DoC's in a long time.
Let alone the Cheetahs being fed Chickens or rabbit!

I bet some arses complained :(
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Do stop whinging, they still feed the bears and chimps whole fruit and veg :p
They did seem to feed the lynx first thing in the morning around opening time, but not
stopped there on my last couple of visits
 
Gremlin said:
Do stop whinging, they still feed the bears and chimps whole fruit and veg :p
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I'm sure someone will complain about that too soon! :p
Although to be fair they do feed the sloth bears live meal worms :D



Gremlin said:
They did seem to feed the lynx first thing in the morning around opening time, but not
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I've not seen it in a long time, & that's usually my first port of call, they also used to feed them late in the afternoon too ( as you probably remember) especially when the Kits were small.
 
you're not still talking about bloody zoos are you?
 
Personally i think they should let the mongeese out to hunt the sna......:exit:
 
Cobra said:
I'm sure someone will complain about that too soon! :p
Although to be fair they do feed the sloth bears live meal worms :D
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Not live ones I hope :eek:;)

Cobra said:
I've not seen it in a long time, & that's usually my first port of call, they also used to feed them late in the afternoon too ( as you probably remember) especially when the Kits were small.
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Shame isn't it. hoping to get up there over the weekend, weather permitting, so won't bother to hang around waiting :(
 
So many conflicting points being made, my head is spinning. One point that hasn't come up is that apparently the development of human intelligence has been strongly linked with a diet that includes meat. This leads to a certain irony IMHO.
 
Cobra said:
Although to be fair they do feed the sloth bears live meal worms :D
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Gremlin said:
Not live ones I hope :eek:;)
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:p

Gremlin said:
Shame isn't it. hoping to get up there over the weekend, weather permitting, so won't bother to hang around waiting :(
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I was thinking the same TBH but the weathers not looking terribly promising, and its Bank holiday W/E so likely to be packed. :(

They seem to spend a lot more time out in the open though, They are usually out for quite sometime during the morning.
 
Always worth asking the keepers if/when larger chunks are likely to be lobbed over the fence.

Less than perfect weather might keep the snotty hordes away at the weekend.
 
Nod said:
Less than perfect weather might keep the snotty hordes away at the weekend.
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Trust me after the last couple of weekends working photographically and currently ploughing through nearly 2000 pictures from Sunday
for delivery tomorrow, I need a no pressure day with camera but no way am I going to go if it's pouring down, but we will
see, only 2 days to work out of the next seven after tomorrow I'm sure I can swing something
 
there is a short interview at the end of this news reel - Dr Ingrid Visser (my hero) talking about the Seaworld news

https://ajam.app.boxcn.net/s/veukgq33hitiyn385wmghcw4h1qst8rq

she's who i now refer people to when i read comments that orca must be in capitivity to be studied - she did her Phd on the NZ population of orca and didnt see any orca in captivity until much more recently. She's the driving force behind the Free Morgan campaign - Morgan is the one in Loro Parque, who is technically owned by Sea World and is a candidate for release, despite what Sea world said.
 
I don't want to get back into it and am not claiming this is proof of anything as I've done only a little research into who commissioned it etc. but it seems legitimate. I'm simply posting for anybody who is interested in another viewpoint:

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/diet-...h-cut-food-s-global-warming-emissions-n542886

I didn't go searching for this, it just came on my Facebook page and thought it might be interesting for at least somebody.
 
probably doesnt take into account people cutting down rainforest to grow soya..
 
Yes interesting, but highly unlikely that there will be a widespread switch to veganism in my view. As for saving more human lives, I think a huge part of the problem is that there are already too many humans on the planet as it is. Not a very nice thought, but there it is.
 
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