Ypres - Esses Farm Cemetery, disrespectful?

Byker28i

Byker28i

Suspended / Banned
Messages
21,339
Edit My Images
Yes
We were over in Ypres last weekend for a long weekend. One of the cemeteries we visited was Essex Farm, used as a dressing station cemetery from April 1915 to August 1917.

The burials were made without definite plan and some of the divisions which occupied this sector may be traced in almost every part of the cemetery, but the 49th (West Riding) Division buried their dead of 1915 in Plot I, and the 38th (Welsh) Division used Plot III in the autumn of 1916. It was in Essex Farm Cemetery that Lieutenant-Colonel John McCrae of the Canadian Army Medical Corps wrote the poem ' In Flanders Fields' in May 1915.

There is a wild flower meadow leading to the monument to the fallen

160879863.jpg


Whilst there, a tourist group turned up to visit and several members of the group started picking bouquets of the poppies to take away.

160879866.jpg

160879865.jpg



I found this disrespectful and rather quite selfish, seeing as the poppies need to seed to come back next year and asked the woman to stop. She seemed quite annoyed I'd mentioned it, so I went to speak to the tour guide who was equally non committal. As we left there were conversations in their group and pointing.

Did I over react?
 
Last edited:
No, totally disrespectful, and would be illegal in this country.
 
not really - you are entitled to your opinion ....... did you ask them why they were taking them ....... maybe they thought that it was some kind of remembrance gesture ....... poppies last less than a few hours when cut anyway?
 
They walked onto the coach with them, taking them as souvenirs
 
No you didn't react. Totatly disrespectful and shows a complete lack of moral fibre. Had I witnessed it I would of defiently given them a piece of my mind.

In addition, Essex Farm is owned / administered by the Common Wealth War Graves Commision so not only is grossley disprectful it is also theft.
 
Can't say it really bothers me they picked a few flowers they hardly desecrated the place, I am however surprised it's not banned simply because if everyone did it the place would soon be barren.

If you want a definitive answer or to try and make a difference on this issue then write to the Common Wealth War Graves Commission.
 
No you did not overreact those men of my grandfathers era give their lives so i could live mine in relative safety as did the men of my fathers era and of those from my era who go to war today to fight terror as i did in the 70s and 80s in ulster.
Before any one says that ulster was not a war (it was a war on terror)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: KAS
Agree with you Byker. This is a War Grave and as such, in my opinion, should not be disturbed in any way, including even the picking of flowers.

Dave
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Only it's not on common ground is it. its on privately owned grounds CWWG
Click to expand...

Its not Commonwealth Graves Commission, it is common ground, I been there when used to cut the grass and had animals grazing on there.

I walked through Belson and Dachau conserntration camps on several occassions. Once when walking through Belson I was invited to sit and have a picnic with a Jewish family who were sat eating on a mass grave as many other people were. I question them as senitively as I could about sitting on a grave and their view was different then mine and said their family who were buried there wouldn't mind.

I wonder what the Ladies motives were and whether she was being disrespectful and what were her famillies situation during that war. I have seen people pick the poppy and pressed it in books in remembrance of a family member who died there. In answer to your question my opinion is that if you overreacted it was for the right reasons. I spent 35 years in the regular army from 1970 to 2005 and have learnt all is not what it seems.
 
KAS said:
Its not Commonwealth Graves Commission, it is common ground, I been there when used to cut the grass and had animals grazing on there.

I walked through Belson and Dachau conserntration camps on several occassions. Once when walking through Belson I was invited to sit and have a picnic with a Jewish family who were sat eating on a mass grave as many other people were. I question them as senitively as I could about sitting on a grave and their view was different then mine and said their family who were buried there wouldn't mind.

I wonder what the Ladies motives were and whether she was being disrespectful and what were her famillies situation during that war. I have seen people pick the poppy and pressed it in books in remembrance of a family member who died there. In answer to your question my opinion is that if you overreacted it was for the right reasons. I spent 35 years in the regular army from 1970 to 2005 and have learnt all is not what it seems.
Click to expand...

CWWG if you check their web site !
 
KAS said:
Only the Monument I think but if all surrounding land is CWWG my point remains the same. I respect all our fallen in graves or otherwise.
Click to expand...

That's good to here, I would be very disappointed and surprised if a fellow Soldier didn't.
 
I have been numerous times.

As a soldier, yes its totally disrespectful. She should of been kicked in the C*&t
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBR
KAS said:
In answer to your question my opinion is that if you overreacted it was for the right reasons. .
Click to expand...

This ^

Don't see any harm in it really, its not like they stole flowers from a grave placed there by relatives or anything, its a meadow with wild flowers growing everywhere within it, not a wreath on a headstone.
Mindful of what poppies represent, Is it not particularly poignant remembering the fallen with flowers grown in their......space..:)
 
Picking the flowers would maybe have helped spread the growth of poppies. They grow abundantly and naturally anyway so no harm done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KAS
Ulfric M Douglas said:
The intolerance and hate displayed here for picking flowers is evil and a very modern trend.
Click to expand...

It's not just a 'flower' is it - It's a potent symbol of 'remembrance'. That's part of the problem, the general dumbing down of standards and lack of respect that is becoming commonplace.

I don't actually see any evidence of hate here. My considered opinion of which I'm entitled to, is that they should be well and truly left in situ. If everybody picked them up there would be none left. In addition, Mother Nature does a perfectly good job of cross-pollination.

In the springtime in York, people help themselves to armfuls of daffodils from Clifford's Tower and kids roll down the embankment flattening them. Over two thousand Jews died there. By doing so not only does it show a complete lack of respect for the monument, but it spoils the view for other visitors visiting the medical City of York. Just another example of the selfish and feckless.

Looking at the pictures there are not many poppies left in situ anyway which is a shame.
 
Blimey, there are some self-rightous people contributing to this thread.

This is not some rancid feral youth laying waste to their surroundings, this is an elderly lady who may have a 'special connection' to the cemetery.

We will remember them (poem For the Fallen) this lady is remembering 'The Fallen' by visiting the cemetery.

How many of the baying mob here condemming her take the time to visit war graves to remember the fallen & pay their respects ?

I speak as an ex regular soldier who also lost his son while he was serving.

Live & Let Live and direct your venom towards a worthy cause.
 
Last edited:
We will never know. The fact remains that this was not just one lady, but "Several members of the party picking bouquets". Still no evidence of hate of venom here - just healthy opinions !
 
Last edited:
It's not just picking flowers though, it's habitat decimation. There's a huge industry of beautiful looking specimens grown in perfectly sterile conditions, even the flowers in your garden have likely been treated with some strange concoction to keep them looking at their best. Can we leave the wild flowers that offer at least some small island of refuge to countless other species alone please? Thanks!

P.S. if you want one or two specimens to preserve for a collection, or even a some special sentimental value, go ahead and take a couple. I won't tell anyone.. But, yeah she looks like she has quite a handful. I like to think I would have said something, if for different reasons, especially if there was a bus load of people doing it.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
but it spoils the view for other visitors visiting the medical City of York.
Click to expand...

Quite right too. It's bloody outrageous. I demand to see untrampled Daffs whenever I visit that northern city for my surgical procedures!


Seriously - perhaps it is time to acquire a life rather than looking for things to get angry about? The senior physicians in York would tell you that too much angry shortens your life!
 
DemiLion said:
Quite right too. It's bloody outrageous. I demand to see untrampled Daffs whenever I visit that northern city for my surgical procedures!


Seriously - perhaps it is time to acquire a life rather than looking for things to get angry about? The senior physicians in York would tell you that too much angry shortens your life!
Click to expand...

Acutely I'm quite chilled about it, certainly not angry. Being able to put your opinion across in a polite, calm state of mind is reasonably healthy isn't it ?

Bottling things up and not discussing things is one of the major causes of stress and illness, or so I'm given to understand by the senior physicians of York ! ;)
 
The way I see it (and Yes, I'm asking everyone on the planet to see things my way) this bold bit is the problem ;
Byker28i said:
... quite selfish, seeing as the poppies need to seed to come back next year and asked the woman to stop.
Click to expand...
By doing so the OP has poised that woman's memories of that place and maybe given her countless days of angst and self-doubt : which she does not deserve.
She didn't ask the OP to stop taking disrespectful photos (one way of seeing the situation) yet she was berated for what to her were probebly innocent or even justifiably-meaningful actions of picking poppies.
 
Ulfric M Douglas said:
The way I see it (and Yes, I'm asking everyone on the planet to see things my way) this bold bit is the problem ;
By doing so the OP has poised that woman's memories of that place and maybe given her countless days of angst and self-doubt : which she does not deserve.
She didn't ask the OP to stop taking disrespectful photos (one way of seeing the situation) yet she was berated for what to her were probebly innocent or even justifiably-meaningful actions of picking poppies.
Click to expand...

The way i see it,is places like this maybe attract a lot of visitor over say a day,now if every visitor just gab a handful of flowers they soon be all gone,leave the flowers alone so others may enjoy them as well :)
 
Last edited:
Out of interest, what nationality was that group of tourists. I can't help but feel that very different culturally acceptable behaviours are at odds here.

I see no issue with it. In fact I remember my grand parents doing that regularly as well. And it never involved any disrespect.

Likewise I've been in official capacity at Belsen and you see people deal with it in all different ways. Tolerance for each other's differences is important at such locations in my opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KAS
Btw just looked up the local law, and whilst there are clauses around "eigendomsrecht" ownership, those in practise are vague around cutting flowers and so acknowledged explicitly. It even mentions that as long as it is not for commercial gain it is ok. In case anyone is interested and understands Flemish here it is;

http://www.natuurenbos.be/nl-BE/topmenu/FAQ

Not something for google translate I suggest ;)
 
i have seen some odd threads here lately and this one is certainly one.

old woman picking flowers in a cemetary ?

is it such a slow day for some folk.

quite frankly myself and my wife often pick wild flowers and would in this occasion.

quite frankly OP i think you probaly did overreact.
maybe those womans husbands or relatives are buried there and you probably caused them great distress.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top