your views on imacs...

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phildaintith

phildaintith

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Im currently repping a 3 year old windows laptop which is on its last legs, and im debating the switch to mac, i have been looking at the 27" imac as it seems to be the cheapest option (compared with the others anyway) coming with the screen built in...

Do any of you guys recomend it, any common problems with them?

On to the technical side i dont really have a clue about specs but i know it'll be used for a lot of stacking 40+ images in photoshop, and a bit of video editing which pushes my current computer to the point where it will just crash. - do you think opting for the quad core over the dual core would be a better option or would i get away with the 3.2ghz i3
 
IMHO, expensive for what they are, potentially difficult/costly to repair should they go wrong (see other thread on here), not modular so when you upgrade you have to buy a complete new system including monitor (which is a BIG whack of the cost)/keyboard etc.

You could buy an equivalent Windows machine for quite a lot less and build one for a lot less.... Also Win machines are easier to upgrade (I could just pull the motherboard out of mine and replace it with a top of the range I7 with shedloads of memory for £500 or so).

You might also consider 2x24" screens (easier with a PC as you can get 2 identical monitors) as they'll be as cheap as 1x27", but give you loads more screen real estate...

Macs do look good though :)
 
I bought an iMac 3 years ago and it works every bit as well as it did then. I've owned several pcs, and still do, and they all virtually have to be held to gather with string and started with a crank shaft after 3 years ownership.

I could regale you with stories of frustration involving pcs but only give you a couple about my iMac.

I could probably sell my iMac for about the same price that I bought it, not that I would.

In short, I think they look better, work better and hold their value MUCH better than pcs.
 
Gary Coyle said:
And the screen. there isnt anything to touch it, even the Dell 30 inch cant compete
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You need to buy the IPS Dells - you might find that they actually share the panel as a component ;) Main problem for me is glossy screen on the iMac....
 
phildaintith said:
On to the technical side i dont really have a clue about specs but i know it'll be used for a lot of stacking 40+ images in photoshop, and a bit of video editing which pushes my current computer to the point where it will just crash. - do you think opting for the quad core over the dual core would be a better option or would i get away with the 3.2ghz i3
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I used the 27 inch core 2 duo 3.06MHz with 8GB Ram running win 7 and editing using Photoshop Elements 9 i was stacking the max allowable in Elements of 200 open high res files, they all lpoaded in Elements from a CF card in under 2 minutes without a hitch

I got a brill deal on a 27 inch i3 with 12GB ram and its stupidly quick

I really dont think you gain any benefit from running the quad core i7's unless youre into serious multi tasking, for my workflow the core 2 duo was actually quicker than the i7

Of course if you can afford it then go for the i7 as it should provide better performance if you decide to max out on multi tasking but whatever you go for max out on the Ram
 
Long Mover said:
I bought an iMac 3 years ago and it works every bit as well as it did then. I've owned several pcs, and still do, and they all virtually have to be held to gather with string and started with a crank shaft after 3 years ownership.
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Those PCs were probably substantially cheaper than the Mac though, and the software issues are likely to be user related anyway. I run Windows on older, slower machines than most people have ever even heard of, and I have next to no problems. People use the argument for cameras, but it applies for computers as well - the weakest link is almost always the person behind it. it isn't Windows' fault that a lot of software these days comes bundled with adware, adds startup entries and unneeded services - but the user is just unaware of what they are installing (and usually doesn't read the page that allows you to opt out of adware) and so ends up blaming Microsoft for the performance hit. No matter what they do, MS can't win.

As for Macs, nothing wrong with them - they're expensive, are backed by excellent support and are a lot more like an appliance than PCs.
 
arad85 said:
You need to buy the IPS Dells - you might find that they actually share the panel as a component ;) Main problem for me is glossy screen on the iMac....
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True but not strictly

My cousin works in the Dell plant in Ireland and he says Dell use 3 seperate suppliers for the majority of their panels, LG Plillips, Samsung and Chi Mei Optoelectronics

He works in the returns dept and says the only returns they ever get for panels either for standalone monitors or laptops are the Samsung and Chi Mei Optoelectronics , he says they never get any returns of the LG Phillips panels

Apple only use LG Phillips
 
trencheel303 said:
Those PCs were probably substantially cheaper than the Mac though, and the software issues are likely to be user related anyway. I run Windows on older, slower machines than most people have ever even heard of, and I have next to no problems. People use the argument for cameras, but it applies for computers as well - the weakest link is almost always the person behind it. it isn't Windows' fault that a lot of software these days comes bundled with adware, adds startup entries and unneeded services - but the user is just unaware of what they are installing (and usually doesn't read the page that allows you to opt out of adware) and so ends up blaming Microsoft for the performance hit. No matter what they do, MS can't win.

As for Macs, nothing wrong with them - they're expensive, are backed by excellent support and are a lot more like an appliance than PCs.
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Actually I bought a Dell laptop for £850 in 2004, my Mac was £800 in 2007. But agreed - pcs are much cheaper.

I don't know about absolving windows of responsibility for the problems with software available for pcs. Can you say the reverse is true for apple? Its not anything to do with apple that the software that is available for Mac tends not to be bundled with rubbish which slows your machine down? I don't think so.

I got sick of having to run msconfig every other day, trying to work out what was and wasn't meant to be there. The 'page' for opting out of adware doesn't exist in most cases. I use computers for music applications and the old adage is - 'if you want to learn how to record/make music get a Mac, if you want to learn how computers work, get a pc'.
 
they are great ..... until they go wrong, like mine has. Dunno what it is yet bt if it is logic board then too costly to replace really.

However, had i bought applecare, no problem. so if you buy one ... buy applecare too.

my macbook has lived for 5 years perfectly even after a pint of orange juice spilt on it 2 years ago.

Hardware is hardware, its the OS that pushes the price for the computer and people who like it think it is worth the premium
 
Gary Coyle said:
Apple only use LG Phillips
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Dell do a number of different panels. Their higher spec., and more expensive ones, are IPS panels. They have the U designation. A 24" panel can be had for £140 or you can buy a 24" U2410 for £350-450. They are both 24" monitors, but one is significantly better than the other. A 27" Dell U monitor runs around £850...

Yes, Apple have good monitors, but you can get as good as standalone... and you don't need to change them when you change your PC ;)
 
neil_g said:
msconfig every other day? you need to change your AV software..
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No need, I changed my os and now I don't need to bother with any of that nonsense.

Msconfig wasn't used to combat something av software would resolve. Any bit of legitimate software I would install would end up fighting against other bits of software as to what opened certain files and what ran on startup. I'm not computer illiterate but I'm certainly no expert and I didn't want to spend my time taming a computer that I felt had a mind of it's own. My Mac has made my life much much easier.

Until it breaks....see above. :|
 
joescrivens said:
Hardware is hardware, its the OS that pushes the price for the computer and people who like it think it is worth the premium
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Tee hee... Oh if only you knew ;)

It isn't the OS that pushes the price, it's the marketing that you pay for to buy into the lifestyle that pushes it. Apple are raking the money in in two ways. Firstly, they are differentiating Macs as "reassuringly expensive" (a la Stella 10-15 years ago) and secondly by charging for everything they can. It's like the old question - ask HP Printer Division what they sell. It isn't printers, it's ink! Same for Apple - they sell the content/apps and make sure it is them that sells you that by making it really easy for you to buy content from them rather than being open standard about things. That's where the money comes from....

BTW, I'm a long-time program manager in software for consumer electronics and have a good friend working at Apples think tank research department in Cupertino (yes, he has worked on the iphone/pad) so I do have a little knowledge ;)
 
Long Mover said:
Any bit of legitimate software I would install would end up fighting against other bits of software as to what opened certain files and what ran on startup.
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Well.. if you will install 1001 different apps to do the same thing, I'm not sure what you should expect.

I guess with MacOS, you only have one choice, so it makes it easy for you ;) :p
 
Long Mover said:
My Mac has made my life much much easier.
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At the end of the day, that's all that matters. However, I am going to say, that the fact that you couldn't get Windows to work properly isn't Microsoft's fault. I'm being civil here, but it is true. ;) Macs ARE more idiot proof, and it can really only be a good thing. Something that I feel Macs will never have, is the true versatility of a PC/Windows - but this is in the eye of the beholder I guess. The scalability for use in business, they just don't have - that IS a fact, which is why Windows is the leader in the workplace.



Long Mover said:
Any bit of legitimate software I would install would end up fighting against other bits of software as to what opened certain files and what ran on startup.
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This is again coming back to the screens you often see after software installation which prompt you to set file type associations. (Similar to the screens which ask you if you want to install Google toolbar, chrome, yahoo toolbar etc - they ARE there) I can't recall off the top of my head any piece of software which takes over file associations all by itself without giving you a choice first. The exception being Microsoft Office, but who installs that and then doesn't want it to open its own documents?

The options are there, and are clearly presented, it's up to you to see them and act on them. The computer just does what you tell it.


arad85 said:
BTW, I'm a long-time program manager in software for consumer electronics and have a good friend working at Apples think tank research department in Cupertino (yes, he has worked on the iphone/pad) so I do have a little knowledge ;)
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You appear to have quite a lot of knowledge Andy and you're one of the few here in this section who doesn't talk **** about certain products while in reality not having a clue.

I think a lot of people forget just how close Apple and Microsoft really are. The Apple II ran Microsoft software, as did some of the very early Macintoshes. The Microsoft Deal of 1997 pretty much saved Apple from bankruptcy, and saw Microsoft comitting to releasing Microsoft Office for the Mac and Internet Explorer for the Mac.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPpduYLvvZ0

People seem to think that Apple and Microsoft are enemies and that to like one you can't like another. To quote Steve Jobs in 1997 "We need to get over this notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose".
 
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arad85 said:
Tee hee... Oh if only you knew ;)

It isn't the OS that pushes the price, it's the marketing that you pay for to buy into the lifestyle that pushes it. Apple are raking the money in in two ways. Firstly, they are differentiating Macs as "reassuringly expensive" (a la Stella 10-15 years ago) and secondly by charging for everything they can. It's like the old question - ask HP Printer Division what they sell. It isn't printers, it's ink! Same for Apple - they sell the content/apps and make sure it is them that sells you that by making it really easy for you to buy content from them rather than being open standard about things. That's where the money comes from....

BTW, I'm a long-time program manager in software for consumer electronics and have a good friend working at Apples think tank research department in Cupertino (yes, he has worked on the iphone/pad) so I do have a little knowledge ;)
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well thanks for telling me why i spend my money on something, and all this time i just thought it was because i preferred the usability of the operating system, oooooh foolish me.

are you for real, what makes you think you know more about why i purchase something than i do? :cuckoo:
 
He never said that, you just appear to have taken his reply a bit more personally than intended. Handbag down!
 
trencheel303 said:
He never said that, you just appear to have taken his reply a bit more personally than intended. Handbag down!
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maybe put your glasses on and have another read, here i'll post the bit for you

arad85 said:
Tee hee... Oh if only you knew ;)

It isn't the OS that pushes the price, it's the marketing that you pay for to buy into the lifestyle that pushes it.
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In the first place, I'd appreciate it if you could be a little less patronising.

Secondly, he hasn't told you why you spent your money on something, but rather your explanation of why you think there is a price premium may be incorrect, and by the sounds of it, he knows a damn site more about the subject than you (or I) do as it is.

I'm off to bed before someone else annoys me and I blow my top.
 
trencheel303 said:
In the first place, I'd appreciate it if you could be a little less patronising.
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ha ha, coming from you dude thats pretty rich.

chill out and stop fighting other peoples arguments, if they arad wants to debate his point then lets leave that up to him.

:)
 
trencheel303 said:
In the first place, I'd appreciate it if you could be a little less patronising.
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Ditto.

I'm not that bothered about the issue to get into a Mac/pc debate. You've got pcs to work for you but seem to have had to become an expert on them to get there - you've already boasted about your pcs that 'no one has even heard of'. Well done. I don't have the time or the inclination to do that.
 
Sorry... was off in the real? world watching the docu on Tyson on more 4 (+1 - oh all hail +1 channels!)...

You can believe what you want to believe. The differences between the two UIs are minimal, and you'd learn how best to one or the other with a few days of using either. If you're really missing a feature of one, there'll be a piece of code to emulate it somewhere...

The fact is Apple are cash rich at the moment and they are making money because people will pay - not because it costs them a lot to produce. It's all down to marketing - and some people will happily pay for that. Do I care if you buy a Mac - nope. Your money, your choice. It's kind of like the Canon/Nikon debate - they both take pictures, but the results are down to those who drive the machines, not the machines (or in this case the OS's as the machines are "identical") themselves...

But, having said that, if you're going to look down on me as I don't "get" Macs (when I do, but from an entirely different perspective from a typical Mac user), then don't be surprised if I look down at you for being foolish for spending money on hype and marketing... ;) :D
 
Long Mover said:
You've got pcs to work for you but seem to have had to become an expert on them to get there
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Given all the advice I've seen on this forum about spending time and understanding how a particular camera works to get the best out of it, assuming something that is more complex should just "work" is probably, at best, a bit naive. ;)
 
Oh.. And if you wanted any further proof that Apple are a content company, look no further than yesterdays "lifechanging" announcement that you can now buy the complete Beatles back catalogue on iTunes.

To quote Men In Black: " This is gonna replace CD's soon; guess I'll have to buy the White Album again" ;) :D
 
1st off, the OP asked about opinion on imacs. Is it the hardware or the OS he is asking about?

I have 'just' bought an i7 Mac Book Pro to replace my laptop. Now the spec and cost of the hardware was equivelant to an i7 HP unit I was comparing it to. The difference of under £100 was no longer part of the equation. The 2 things that it comes down to are looks (the apple has it) and the fact I can dual boot Mac Os X and Win 7 on the MBP but not the HP (well, not as easily, nothing is impossible ;) ) if I want to (and probably will). Note, this is another acceptance from apple that they accept microsoft, and acknowldege them by easily allowing dual boot through bootcamp.

I've never used a mac before, and so far I am enjoying it, it's stupidly quick, processing in lightroom is years ahead of my older laptop, but I guess that's mainly down to the hardware spec. I'll upgrade the RAM a bit more this weekend and it will be a machine that should last me some time running either OS.

Simply put, I chose the MBP because the price was about the same (actually using my Sis's student discount it was cheaper than the HP) and I can use whichever OS I choose.
 
arad85 said:
Sorry... was off in the real? world watching the docu on Tyson on more 4 (+1 - oh all hail +1 channels!)...

You can believe what you want to believe. The differences between the two UIs are minimal, and you'd learn how best to one or the other with a few days of using either. If you're really missing a feature of one, there'll be a piece of code to emulate it somewhere...

The fact is Apple are cash rich at the moment and they are making money because people will pay - not because it costs them a lot to produce. It's all down to marketing - and some people will happily pay for that. Do I care if you buy a Mac - nope. Your money, your choice. It's kind of like the Canon/Nikon debate - they both take pictures, but the results are down to those who drive the machines, not the machines (or in this case the OS's as the machines are "identical") themselves...

But, having said that, if you're going to look down on me as I don't "get" Macs (when I do, but from an entirely different perspective from a typical Mac user), then don't be surprised if I look down at you for being foolish for spending money on hype and marketing... ;) :D
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you're confusing your opinion with fact, claiming if only i knew. the fact is you don't know why i buy a mac better than i do.

i buy a mac because of the os. you may think it is similar to win 7, but i don't. and i have a win 7 machine no more than a metre away in a table device. i prefer mac osx, and thats why i pay more for it.

what others do and the reasons they do it, is beyond me, since i am not them :D
 
Gary Coyle said:
Which makes my £1100 i3 iMac superb value then, where could i spec up as good a machine for another £250
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Huh? You sure you're not talking about the 24" iMac? A 24" Dell IPS monitor was £365 when I bought mine - that would give several hundred left over.

As far as I can see, the cheapest 27" iMac is £1400 from the Apple store. Assuming that spec, and buying a U2711 27" monitor off Dell at £660 (I only did a very cursory look for price yesterday) and a quick google shows a i3 based system starting at £399 (could probably get it for less with a bit of searching), so £1100 (allowing for bits and bobs on top) gets you pretty much the same thing.

The big kicker though is when you come to upgrade next time. Because the mac is integrated with the monitor, you have to shell out another £1400 in 3 years time (or whenever you decide to upgrade). I can quite easily just change motherboard, processor and memory if I want to for a couple of hundred and I'm back with a state of the art system.
 
joescrivens said:
i buy a mac because of the os. you may think it is similar to win 7, but i don't. and i have a win 7 machine no more than a metre away in a table device. i prefer mac osx, and thats why i pay more for it.
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What do you prefer about it? What specific features make it so much better than win7?
 
arad85 said:
What do you prefer about it? What specific features make it so much better than win7?
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why is it so important to you to know? i can accept people might prefer windows, why is it so hard to believe i prefer mac?

some of them are as follows:

time machine
they way finder works with it's views and cover flow etc
the dock
uninstalling programs is just a drag to the trash
bootcamp and being able to run my virtual windows machine if i need it for work
the ease of use of disk utility
iphoto and ilife in general

and many many more, but i'm not going to list them all, and please don't go through my list and tell me all the alternate ways i can do these things in win7. The whole setup and feel of OSX is my preference and its as simple as that, just accept it.:thumbs:
 
joescrivens said:
the fact is you don't know why i buy a mac better than i do.
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Again, he never said this.




arad85 said:
The fact is Apple are cash rich at the moment and they are making money because people will pay - not because it costs them a lot to produce. It's all down to marketing - and some people will happily pay for that.
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joescrivens said:
i prefer mac osx, and thats why i pay more for it.
Click to expand...

See? The information and explanation is right there, but you're so busy trying to have a pop at us that you completely miss what is right in front of you.




joescrivens said:
why is it so important to you to know?
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there is nothing wrong with curiousity.


The whole setup and feel of OSX is my preference and its as simple as that, just accept it.:thumbs:
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The only lack of acceptance in this thread is yours, I'm afraid.

and before you take another swipe at me about fighting other people's arguments, it's a thread which we're all participating in.
 
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trencheel303 said:
Again, he never said this

See? The information and explanation is right there, but you're so busy trying to have a pop at us that you completely miss what is right in front of you.

there is nothing wrong with curiousity.

The only lack of acceptance in this thread is yours, I'm afraid.

and before you take another swipe at me about fighting other people's arguments, it's a thread which we're all participating in.
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at the risk of this becoming a perpetual "someone is wrong on the internet" conversation. lets just leave it there shall we as clearly it's not going anywhere constructive :thumbs:
 
neil_g said:
to be honest it doesnt help when people run into these kind of threads and say stuff like "OSX is a million times better than Windows" and run out again for example.. its nice sometimes to know peoples reasoning for an informed debate.
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fair enough, but it feels more like a "your reasons are wrong" rather than an "im curious" question.

but then its hard to read those kinds of things in plain text
 
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