Your no photographer until...

Mr.Orb

Mr.Orb

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Dave
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Yes
... you've been searched under the terrorism act.
I have to say, i wasn't too bothered when they did it. They probably had to fill their 'quota' and they are only doing their job.

 
what made them stop you?
 
dod said:
what made them stop you?
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I was walking through Edinburgh's Waverley Train Station with my camera round my neck. I wasn't taking any photos, just passing through.
 
well, no wonder then :bang:
 
Its things like this that make me wonder if its worth the hassle of owning a DSLR sometimes you know :(
 
And what happens when there is a terrorist taking pics planning there next attack and he didnt get searched???

Police are just doing there job
 
It's lucky you weren't stopped by the grammar police at the same time...




...sorry;)
 
I should think a "terrorist" would use a mobile phone or a hidden camera rather than a full blown DSLR outfit so they don't draw attention to themselves.
 
ElCapone said:
And what happens when there is a terrorist taking pics planning there next attack and he didnt get searched???

Police are just doing there job
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personally, If I was a terrorist, I'd just have a look on Flickr, far easier and less chance of getting nabbed ;)
 
I see it's a BTP ticket. Their remit is different with regards to terrorism due to the nature of the areas they Police. As you said yourself you weren't too bothered and appreciated they have a job to do.

At the end of the day big deal, they haven't taken your equipment or made you delete pictures as we have read about on other threads.

Good on you for being so tolerent.:thumbs:
 
I know that we all have to be tolerant and I'm not trying to be confrontational or difficult but I'm just more than a little concerned that walking through a train station with a camera around your neck is reasonable grounds for a stop and search.

Far too many of these threads popping up for me.
 
Matt Charlton said:
I know that we all have to be tolerant and I'm not trying to be confrontational or difficult but I'm just more than a little concerned that walking through a train station with a camera around your neck is reasonable grounds for a stop and search.

Far too many of these threads popping up for me.
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Matt:

The subject of terrorism is a lot different from some of the other threads about taking pics in public places and getting hassled by security guards in shopping centres etc. Personally if a security guard asked me to delete photos or whatever, then I'd tell him where to go (and I would be confruntational and difficult believe me).

Decisions are made at a very high level (Government in a lot of cases) as to what the Police should regard as a possible terrorist threat or activity. I can fully understand why this particular scenario has arisen.

You have got to remember the terrorist scum who target us in our daily lives aim to cause maximum disruption, death and injury. So, you'll find airports, train stations and the underground etc have, quite rightly imo, hightened security levels.

Everybody on here now knows you are likely to get stopped in these places if you are taking pics or carrying a camera (and I do take the point that DSLR's appear to be targeted but come on they are a lot more obvious). If, in this knowledge, you go to such a place and do get stopped/searched etc, don't effin moan about it.:thumbs:
 
I work in Canary Wharf and have been stopped and searched many times...I just let them get on with it now. I dont even bother to ask them about it...They search my bag I answer whatever questions they ask and im on my way. Ive learned that if you are confronational about it, it just gives them ammunition and they keep you longer...I just want to get to work or home ASAP :lol:
 
Kaplow said:
I work in Canary Wharf and have been stopped and searched many times...I just let them get on with it now. I dont even bother to ask them about it...They search my bag I answer whatever questions they ask and im on my way. Ive learned that if you are confronational about it, it just gives them ammunition and they keep you longer...I just want to get to work or home ASAP :lol:
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Well done you :thumbs::thumbs:
 
My only concern on the issue would be that once they have filled out their forms, I wonder which databases you end up on, and whether that could feasibly cause any problems in the future? Like the majority, I have nothing to hide, and as a result would certainly co-operate, however once the questions from them had ended, I would have some pretty stern ones of my own regarding where the information they had taken was going to be put, and for what it might be used in the future.
 
BRASH said:
If, in this knowledge, you go to such a place and do get stopped/searched etc, don't effin moan about it.:thumbs:
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I just want to point out i'm not moaning about being searched, i'm just joking your not a photographer until you've had it :p
 
Witch said:
My only concern on the issue would be that once they have filled out their forms, I wonder which databases you end up on, and whether that could feasibly cause any problems in the future? Like the majority, I have nothing to hide, and as a result would certainly co-operate, however once the questions from them had ended, I would have some pretty stern ones of my own regarding where the information they had taken was going to be put, and for what it might be used in the future.
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I'd imagine your details will be on some data base, same as if you were stopped for a minor road traffic matter for instance. It'd never be used against you as it's not a criminal record or a conviction so no future problems caused.
 
It would depend on how I was stopped and asked as to wether it bothered me or not, but surely it would make sense to use profiling when stopping and searching people. The threat we face is pretty specific, it's not like the days when the terror threat came from the ira.
 
ElCapone said:
And what happens when there is a terrorist taking pics planning there next attack and he didnt get searched???
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Do you know what a terrorist looks like then?

My point is terrorists can be anyone and everywhere. So comments like yours really dont mean anything unless you know. AND if we knew the answer we wouldnt need to randomly search as there wouldnt be any terrorists would we?!

I would rather get searched knowing if the innocent to suspect ratio was 1,000,000 to 1 then at least that "one" is worth it with the amount of lives that are saved.

Theres no tone on these forums, I say this with a friendly tone and not of sarcasim.

SB :)

PS

Police do not need any reason to search or detain under the terrorism act other than suspicion.
 
Nope, I'm not having it, doesn't matter which way you cut it, owning a camera does not qualify as just cause for a stop and search.
Maybe there isn't anything you can do about it, and the easiest/quickest way out of it is to just comply, but that doesn't make it right.
Defending this rubbish with "just doing a job" is no defence at all, I want them stop searching people they suspect as up to no good, not everyone who has a camera round their neck, thats just plain stupid.
 
joxby said:
Defending this rubbish with "just doing a job" is no defence at all, I want them stop searching people they suspect as up to no good, not everyone who has a camera round their neck, thats just plain stupid.
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Ok I agree with you if that officer(s) are deliberately using the terrorism act to exploit searching people and if that happens then that should be reported in the first insctance.

BUT I have to say this to you Joxby. Can you prove its only people with Cameras getting searched under the terrorism act? Because if you can then there is obviously a Discrimination issue there and it should be dealt with by reporting in to the IPCC.

Everyone of all race, gender, age and description get searched under this act every minute, every hour of everyday. I can assure you that.

Do I agree with it? On a Human level I enjoy my Human Rights. BUT on a "protection from terrorism, and I dont enjoy seeing death" level, I dont care if it means they catch/deter the sick terrorists. If a person with a camera gets searched so what, if a person with parrot in a cage gets searched.....who cares......if the person with ruck sack gets searched........who cares, one day they WILL find parts of a bomb in a bag, pics of the security system at Kings Cross on a camera, or bomb parts in a parrot........ its happened, and will always go on.

SB
 
hmmm - the fact you have an obvious camera on a station is grounds enough for them to stop and ask you to account for your actions - to take pics on a station you need permission from the station manager so, IMHO, a BTP officer should stop anyone with a camera and ask if they have permission at least.

B.
 
shrimperblue said:
Do you know what a terrorist looks like then?

My point is terrorists can be anyone and everywhere. So comments like yours really dont mean anything unless you know. AND if we knew the answer we wouldnt need to randomly search as there wouldnt be any terrorists would we?!

I would rather get searched knowing if the innocent to suspect ratio was 1,000,000 to 1 then at least that "one" is worth it with the amount of lives that are saved.

Theres no tone on these forums, I say this with a friendly tone and not of sarcasim.

SB :)

PS

Police do not need any reason to search or detain under the terrorism act other than suspicion.
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I dont get why your quoting me, i was putting across that people shouldnt mind getting searched. Its a good thing people are searched imo.
 
Sorry ElCapone, I read it as you complaining that while you/a person is being searched another was getting away with it as their searching the wrong person.

So I humbley offer my apology,

SB
 
BenMottram said:
hmmm - the fact you have an obvious camera on a station is grounds enough for them to stop and ask you to account for your actions - to take pics on a station you need permission from the station manager so, IMHO, a BTP officer should stop anyone with a camera and ask if they have permission at least.

B.
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This is exactly what I'm talking about, account for what actions ?, the fact he's carrying a camera, what, you need permission to carry a camera now as well as use it ?,
That is not grounds for a stop & search.
He wasn't taking pictures, it was hanging round his neck like medalion man.
Look, I'm sorry, they can kiss my arse, they obviously have targets to meet and that is a stop for the sake of a stop.
Ok, they did it, ce la vie, but stopping someone just because they're carrying a camera is not on.
I dont know the circumstances, maybe Mr Orb did something to arouse their suspicions, I dont know, but if everyone with a camera round their neck is seen as fair game wherever they are, we might aswell leave the sodding things at home.
 
The issue is not that Mr. Orb got stopped but more why he got stopped. I really do believe the police do not know the law a lot of the time (and I speak from personal experience). They are not trained lawyers and I don't expect them to know every law ever written but this issue keeps cropping up so there really should be some training in this area and it should be addressed quickly.

The amount of CCTV monitoring in London makes it the most observed city in the most observed country in the world. They choose to stop people taking photos of buildings because they have a big camera. I can't be the only one that finds that ironic.
 
I agree its so annoying as I can see both sides.

Depends on the building, depends on the location, depends on government intelligence etc etc the list goes on.

The minority have ruined it for the majority. Its not a nice thing but we should be pro-active rather than re-active. We shouldnt wait until another 9/11 etc to then think "why wernt we checking before this happens"

Theres not a right or wrong answer.


***EDIT***

Just wanted to post this from www.yourrights.org.uk

"Stop and Search

These refer to persons and vehicles and it is an offence to fail to stop a vehicle.

When a police officer reasonably suspects you are a terrorist you can be stopped and searched to discover whether you have anything in your possession that could constitute evidence that you are a terrorist. Since being a terrorist is not in itself an offence, unless you are a member of a proscribed group, this power means that the police do not have to suspect you of committing an offence or of carrying prohibited articles.

In addition the police can designate specific areas to be places where they have special powers in relation to terrorism. This means that within these localities people and vehicles can be stopped and searched by the police if they consider it expedient to do so to prevent acts of terrorism. There is no need for any reasonable suspicion.

They should be looking for articles which could be used in connection with terrorism but the powers can be used whether or not the police have grounds for suspecting the presence of articles of that kind.

Failure to stop a vehicle or obstructing a police officer in the exercise of these powers is an offence punishable with a fine, a prison sentence of six months or both.

Authorisations to designate areas as subject to these powers last for 28 days but they can be renewed. The Secretary of State has powers to intervene in such authorisations. "


SB
 
I'm just wondering... did the BTP specifically mention the camera was part of the reason why they stopped you. The assumption seems to be it was but you haven't actually said that's what happened?
 
Do i need a receipt like that to join your club :-), i've been stopped under that act several times but never searched.
 
Mr.Orb said:
... you've been searched under the terrorism act.
I have to say, i wasn't too bothered when they did it. They probably had to fill their 'quota' and they are only doing their job.
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The USA under Bush was already on my list of 'places to avoid'. Now the U.K. has joined them.
I'll spend my rock hard €uros where I feel welcome instead of threatened, suspected, and spied on, thank you.
 
Day to day, I wear comedy clown shoes out and about. I get stopped all the time as they think I am a shoe bomber with an increased payload.

Its a nightmare - I have given up on the spinning bow tie and comedy flower but I will never surrender my bucket of chopped paper to these people.

FREEDOM !PS - Yes my car does fall apart when I shut the door.
 
I reckon being stopped and asked a few questions is ok as the police should be able to suss you out from that - if they aren't convinced then fair enough hold you for a little longer and get the forms filled out but again they should really be able to make a decent judgement call from asking you some basic questionos and seeing ID of some kind.

Oddly enough, when I lived in London I used to ride out to Essex (on a motorbike) every weekend to go air rifle shooting at a proper range with full length rifle in a rifle bag slung over my shoulder in full view. Never once got stopped! It was unloaded and secure in it's nylon bag (therefore legal) but was obviously a rifle and I would have thought that even a spot check would have happened!

I did get stopped a lot and receive a lot of grief for the loud exhaust. I guess that was more of a danger to public than a rifle. :(

Just a point, I guess the police may of been operating on one of their special tasks that they sometimes do where they temporarily get extra powers and you may have just been unlucky with the timing. We don't really know what intelligence they may have received previously to justify the search. I suppose no harm done and if it's not a regular thing then I wouldn't be bothered by it.
 
Dal said:
Do i need a receipt like that to join your club :-), i've been stopped under that act several times but never searched.
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If I'm not mistaken you're still supposed to get a slip if you've been stopped under the act too.
 
well i get searched all the time coz i look asian and carry a backpack so u kinda get used to it even tho im black/mexican/white lol... i never hurry anywhere so im often seen as l
oitering
 
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