You can't take photos here...

Byker28i

Byker28i

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A local toddler group my wife started is celebrating 25 years and yesterday was holding a party to celebrate and a lot of the original mums had been contacted. The local press (who we know well) came to record it and as the group now meets in the local school rather than the community hall opposite, the photographer took the three mums who started it over to outside the front of the community hall to take their photo of where it started.

Cue an irate woman, threatening to call the police, insisting it was private land (it's not it's public thoroughfare outside), not wanting photos taken as there was a childrens party inside. "It's against the law"
Not only couldn't you see any children but it was a two minute shoot of three mums outside a community hall! I'm guessing the children were all dressed, so couldn't understand the objection.

Needless to say the photographer put her right, even offered to call the police for her, but apparently she'd worked herself into a right tizzy.

A real shame I wasn't there. This has just strengthen my feeling I could write my thesis on the modern phenomena of moral outrage when photographing children or near near children.
 
It has gotten out of control and also makes it hard for balanced parents to take images of their own children for future family memories. Particularly if they are included in a group event, which is something you will most likely want to capture your own child's involvement in.


Sent from my iPhone using Talk Photography Forums
 
Didn't you know? Male plus a camera that isn't contained inside a phone you're either a terrorist or a paedophile. And definitely if it's in full view of members of the public with no attempt to hide or disguise your actions :shifty:.......
 
Sharky said:
Didn't you know? Male plus a camera that isn't contained inside a phone you're either a terrorist or a paedophile. And definitely if it's in full view of members of the public with no attempt to hide or disguise your actions :shifty:.......
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That's what shadows and rain coats are for. Oh...
 
Yep getting a bit out of control,i have come against a woman like this at the seaside,i held my ground and she walked of in an huff :banghead:
 
Please let's not let this turn into another "rights and wrongs of photographing kids in public" debate ....

... but, to me, this is really about educating people like this irate woman about what is and is not legal, being calm and polite and standing your ground, as it seems the guy did in this situation. But it's also about common sense and good manners on behalf of the photographer. I think it behoves us all, whether pro or amateur, to take account of the possible sensitivities of others when taking shots with kids in them, regardless of the law around photography in public.

Personally, I never photograph kids unless I have the specific permission of a parent/responsible adult, and I try to exclude them from a general shot, such as a street or beach scene unless they are situated in such a way as to be anonymous and not the main subject in the shot. There is clearly a great deal of ignorance and media generated hysteria about this.

ETA ... I recently did a bit of freelance PR work for a friend who is the head of a local junior school. This involved writing a piece about the school for the local press and taking some shots of her and a group of the kids (6-7 years old). This was accomplished without anyone getting upset at all. When I asked my friend about taking images of the kids for the local press, apparently it's OK as long as they weren't actually named in the publication. Hence the shot appeared captioned with the names of my friend and one of her teachers but not the kids! "Headteacher Sue Smith and Deputy Head Jane Bloggs with children from <x> primary school" .... (names changed) ...
 
Thing is, this wasn't photographing kids. It was a local paper journalist, photographing three mums outside a building that just happened to have children in it. No one even knew it was being used, you couldn't even tell children wee inside, so why she kicked up a storm was surprising.
 
You probably wont convince her otherwise.
I've had the same thing quoted at me, I was taking pictures of a boat at the time, with my back to Bournmouth Beach.
Enter stage left someone who thought he knew best, and tells me I can't take photos on the beach, it's "against the law, as there are children around."
When asked what law, he said the one one passed last year.
Now we all know thats cobblers, trouble is he genuinely believed it. I carried on and said, OK, best you call the Police then. He walked off, and an hour later the Police hadn't turned up, so I went away.

Now, rightly or wrongly he had it in his mind it was illegal. When I was a Policeman we spent a great deal of time getting the public to do something when they see something illegal. So in some ways you can't damm these people, no matter how much out vested interest may be. Who knows they may get it right sometimes in that they do put people off taking pictures they really shouldn't.
You can try and educate/reason, but thats not going to work most of the time, remember, "you are the one breaking the law, of course you're going to say it's all alright!"

Lastly, this is nothing new, people were complaining about the same thing in the early 90's in Amateur Photography.
 
Crap like this doesn't help.
6246-1407137669-506b923854339346f0e07ab3ec512d4a.jpg
 
I think I'd have asked her precisely what it has to do with her ... and then told her where to get off.
 
Well worth taking a look at 'Taking Photographs is not a crime' - lots of good links regarding the law on photography - covering the UK and beyond. Plus stories of those that have fallen foul of 'jobs worths' that have tried to stop perfectly legal photography (it's a facebook page - but you don't need a FB account to view it)

10338691_709237529134499_2552283391237674365_n.jpg


Link to their page > https://www.facebook.com/TakingPhotographsIsNotACrime
 
So the general theme is thats its all out of control.. what a bunch of drama queens... its one women... at exactly the same moment in time there was probably thousands of kids around the country being photogrpahed with no problems.. but one women kicks up a fuss with a press photogrpahger who sorted it.. and that constitutes out of control..

these thigns happen now and then.. they are pretty rare in the bigger scheme of things... hard to understand why your all getting so worked up about it to be honest.... out of control? dont be silly :)

nagh nagh...
 
I'm afraid that anyone telling me that I couldn't take photos in that manner would be given a foxtrot oscar and ignored.
 
what i find most annoying is the hypocrisy of photography. as an example at my daughters school when she was getting her award i was told i wasnt allowed to take photos ( big camera and lens ). yet sitting left and right of me happily snapping away with zero objections from the teachers were mums and dads using there phones.
and this is the same in a myriad of other places. This isnt about the "pro photography not allowed" either. it just seems to be more about ignorant people thinking if you have a big camera and lens your going to do something nefarious with the images taken but if they are on a camera phone its all ok and no harm could ever be done with phone pics.
 
I have an odd sense of humour so would probably have told her that yes, I can take photos anywhere I want to and let her rant and rail before telling her that I think she meant that there are places that I MAY not take photos - a distinction that a rally driver used to make a copper look very foolish some years ago having ripped off a wheel of his car.

In the situation described in the OP, the woman was well out of order and probably guilty of causing a breach of the peace.
 
Jayst84 said: ↑
Crap like this doesn't help.

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What if it was the police doing undercover work ?,might blow the hold case.
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Is it crap? Or is it a way of gathering intelligence on possible attacks? There's a difference between being asked about what you're doing and being stopped from doing it. Has that campaign made any difference? no, not to me, and I take photos in circumstances where I am very likely to be asked. I've been asked to account many times, but I've only been asked to stop once, and legally the officers were correct.

Simon, there's things in place to stop observation ops being blown, don't worry about it.
 
Bernie174 said:
Is it crap? Or is it a way of gathering intelligence on possible attacks? There's a difference between being asked about what you're doing and being stopped from doing it. Has that campaign made any difference? no, not to me, and I take photos in circumstances where I am very likely to be asked. I've been asked to account many times, but I've only been asked to stop once, and legally the officers were correct.

Simon, there's things in place to stop observation ops being blown, don't worry about it.
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I think it feeds paranoia. The communities this was targeting are already paranoid enough I think, they don't need anyone pandering to that. (Schools with 24 hour private security on the gate, etc. For what reason I've no idea).

Not sure who is launching attacks in quiet, leafy suburbia. But I've never heard of any happening, nor of any being foiled in planning. Maybe they keep it all under wraps, who knows.

Has the campaign made any difference? I couldn't say. I do know I've had people in the area stop me, and tell me it's illegal to take photos in public. Related to that campaign? Probably not, I didn't ask them. In fact, likely not, as none of then ever "said anything" add far as I'm aware - ie I'm yet to get a knock at the door from the plod.
 
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Just read an interesting quote.
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/04/frank200804?currentPage=all

“There are too many images,” he said. “Too many cameras now. We’re all being watched. It gets sillier and sillier. As if all action is meaningful. Nothing is really all that special. It’s just life. If all moments are recorded, then nothing is beautiful and maybe photography isn’t an art anymore. Maybe it never was.”

Robert Frank
 
Whatever happened to common sense? :(

I was told to stop taking photos at a gig recently by a 'security' guy aka bouncer because I was using a small compact camera, people all around me were using their phones and even ipads, probably in a lot of cases with longer 'zooms' that the Lumix compact I was using. Allow me a wee rant about people who watch a gig or show through their ipad or tablet instead of actually watching the show live, meanwhile blocking the view for people behind them!
 
I think it feeds paranoia. The communities this was targeting are already paranoid enough I think, they don't need anyone pandering to that
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I agree, it is feeding paranoia, but mostly photographers, certainly in that campaigns respect.

As for the "You can't take pictures of kids" issue, it doesn't help the BBC have now started to blur film of kids in classrooms (and people in a lot of street scenes as well!), I would think that sort of thing is confirming in the minds of those who have the impression it's a hanging offence, that it really is illegal.
 
AHILL said:
What chance have we got when we cant even get our grammar correct. are you American by any chance?
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Think you have gotten a period in your rant:p:p:p
 
AHILL said:
What chance have we got when we cant even get our grammar correct. are you American by any chance?
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I was going to comment on that but decided not to. Despite being an old English word, gotten is now an Americanism. as is using # to denote number. When I'm president of the world, all of this will stop!!

Bernie174 said:
As for the "You can't take pictures of kids" issue, it doesn't help the BBC have now started to blur film of kids in classrooms (and people in a lot of street scenes as well!), I would think that sort of thing is confirming in the minds of those who have the impression it's a hanging offence, that it really is illegal.
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The one I can never understand is blurring of vehicle number plates. Why? They are on view in public.


Steve.
 
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Quicksnapper has pretty much summed up they way things should be approached.

Sounding off at someone even if they are clearly incorrect in their belief about what can or can't be photographed is not going to help.

I rarely take photos of people but even if I did, the fact that the law allows me to take a photo of anyone (ie where the person was the subject of the shot) in a public place does not mean I would go ahead without asking. I'd even ask someone if I could photograph their dog.

I don't know if I am being affected by the odd story in the media or here but I think there is a number (don't know how large) of people that genuinely believe photographing anyone, and in particular children, in a public place is unlawful.

Dave
 
This is a real shame a great celebration being disrupted by an over emotional Mother. Easy just tell her and her children to leave, Simple no more problems.
 
Slightly different, but I had my first ever "you can't take photos" objection on Wednesday.

As I was driving to Tesco the car in front was a beautifully restored yellow and white Ford Zephyr convertible. It went into the carpark too and was parked away from most other vehicles, so as the driver headed into the store I asked him if he would mind me taking pictures of the car - and of course it was fine. So I got the camera out and began. First thing was half the eastern European guys that wash cars came over and started asking if it was mine, followed shortly by their Tesco supervisor asking more pointedly. Then finally another guy in a Tesco shirt came over, again asked if it was my car, then told me it was illegal to photograph cars belonging to other people. I informed him that I had permission from the owner and he then told me I was being recorded on CCTV. At this point I became cross, though polite and under control, and requested he call the police to ask what they thought about it. I kept taking pictures longer that I really wanted to see if they'd do anything else and eventually they went away.

In the store I met up with the owner again, thanked him and talked to him about the vehicle. No more has been heard. If the final guy (security) had told me it was 'against Tesco rules' to take pictures then I'd have complied, since the car park is (probably) their land, but since he just said it was illegal it seemed only right to test that.

I've not uploaded the images yet to find out if they're any good.
 
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