What is the difference between creating that image with AI, and creating the same image with paint and a paint brush?
Wow...modern phones are amazing.......
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What is the difference between creating that image with AI, and creating the same image with paint and a paint brush?
AndrewFlannigan
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So: who has the latest report on the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin?
en.wikipedia.org
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? - Wikipedia
ancient_mariner
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As much as anything, it's down to who or what created the image. At present I place a high value on an image created by a human and a low (consciously negative) value on machine images. That may change culturally as time goes on, and has already changed for those who need an image quickly to advertise something.
The phrase "to sell your soul" comes to mind.
The phrase "to sell your soul" comes to mind.
AndrewFlannigan
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I have it on good authority that Lucifer has issued a proclamation, against the purchase of any more souls contaminated by artificial intelligence.
In all seriousness, I've never really cared how an image is created, it either interests me or it doesn't.
ancient_mariner
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If I look at someone else's picture I may never know, but if I look at my own then I will care.
AndrewFlannigan
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That's fair enough and if you don't like it then you're quite right not to do it.
Phil V
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I’m not sure there’s many people who believe that phones are incapable of taking a decent photo, but we’re photographers, passionate enough to join forums to discuss the technical aspects of the medium. So of course we’re going to be more aware of any technical limitations.to avoid offending all those who are shocked and offended by the notion that ANY decent photo (be it a snap, a memory or a serious shot), can be done with anything but a large sensor camera
I’ve spent some of the last week in Selfie central, where there are literal queues of people lining up to get their own version of that instagram shot (Santorini and Mykonos), there were virtually no cameras there, everyone using phones.
Us ‘photographers’ with our big heavy technically challenging kit have to accept we’re now the outliers, and that for most people ‘taking pictures’ is what you do with your phone.
Phil V
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And surely it’s in the functional space where AI really becomes a serious issue.
If an unknowing user presses the button and what is produced by the camera software isn’t an actual representation of what was there, but an image based on a bunch of incorrect ‘assumptions’, then what’s created could end up being misleading.
Here’s a picture of x person in front of Y vegetation, when he says he’s never been there. The ‘evidence’ says otherwise, but it’s completely fictitious.
Yup. That's the point I was making.
Barney
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My mate does it all the time on his phone. I comment "where have you been today," he then send me photos of his motorbike at various locations around Britain. He thinks AI is fantastic for taking the p***, and I suspect many others will. he can cut out the image onto any background in seconds.
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We usually wait for people shooting with cameras but not for selfi(sh)ists with phones - we can be easily disposed of from phone shots but cloning us out of a "proper" photo is rather more time consuming! Lots of cameras on Crete (and fewer rip off bars/tavernas than Mykonos and Santorini!)
Phil V
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Also did Crete, Heraklion this year, saw Chania last year.
We do plan to return for a holiday in Crete at some point,
Just left Rhodes heading back to Athens for the flight home.
We like to think of Santorini’s rip off bars as paying a beautiful scenery tax. It keeps us from getting bitter.
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Did a day trip to Santorini from Crete about 20 years ago. Took the cable car up the cliff, took one look at the crowds and queues for the very expensive coffee and took the next cable car down after looking at the view for a few minutes. Did the trip out to the active island and then back to Crete. Boat trip was surprisingly reasonable (and 1/2 empty!)
In OUR opinion, the further from Heraklion you get, the better the food and prices. West is best!
In OUR opinion, the further from Heraklion you get, the better the food and prices. West is best!
Tysonator
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I have always wanted to go to Santorini and my chance came when we booked a cruise for May 25 this year.
However, the cruise company changed the ports so I still have not experienced the lovely white and blue buildings, or the stunning views, the expensive tea / coffee shops, the crowds, the ridiculous over prices tourist shops, or the cable car ! ! lol
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Sootchucker
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The wife and I went back in 2014. Whilst it was certainly beautiful, the crowds (I suppose including us) were horrendous, with Cruise Ships and coaches arriving all the time. I can certainly see why the island residents are getting a little hacked off with all the tourists - in the height of summer you can hardy walk.
Phil V
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Whilst we were close to the front of the 15 minute queue for the best selfie spot, a lady had to get through the queue to get into her house. I can’t imagine what it’s like living with that.
My only regret is that we didn’t take pictures of the queue or some of the other selfie takers.
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Tysonator
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The volume of tourists is an issue these days as tourists from countries like Russia, India, and china have more disposable income. They will travel to the world iconic places just the same as us brit's.
Not a problem until those pesky Russians, Indians, and Chinese started traveling?
Tysonator
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Now we have more tourists going to the same destination we also have more people wanting to take pictures with their mobiles.
I have seen a chinse families take multiple photos of the extended family next to ancient statue, outside a building etc.
They go through all the permutations of family members i.e. mum bad, broth sister, gran and grand children, son father, etc, etc
I have seen a chinse families take multiple photos of the extended family next to ancient statue, outside a building etc.
They go through all the permutations of family members i.e. mum bad, broth sister, gran and grand children, son father, etc, etc
ancient_mariner
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The time for travelling to the spectacular parts of the world ended about 20 years ago. While many places are still worth seeing, they are now often horribly crowded, inaccessible and the locals are unsympathetic (quite reasonably). We were lucky enough to visit Athens in 2020 when most tourists stayed away, but it's usually terrifically busy. Our return to Knossos in 2017 was disappointing 30 years after our first visit when it was possible to walk around the rooms and there were probably no more than 30 people on the site at that time.
BillN_33
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Today testing my new iPhone
iPhone 17 Pro - 48MP sensor producing RAW, (DNG) files.... file size is big, 85MB
Original and crop in LR .......all files/images below are 200KB for posting on here
(not much processing in LR ......I could process the images more Profile is Apple ProRaw for the iPhone and Adobe colour for the Leica)
iPhone 17 Pro - Original Image - (settings are really Auto - 28mm @1/430th sec - f1.8 ISO 80 - locked focus on guy)
iPhone 17 Pro - CROP from above image
Leica Q Crop from image below
Leica Q Original image - 24MP sensor and 42MB file - 1/1000 sec - f2.2 - ISO 100 ....... 28mm lens ...........DNG file .......not much processing
iPhone 17 Pro - 48MP sensor producing RAW, (DNG) files.... file size is big, 85MB
Original and crop in LR .......all files/images below are 200KB for posting on here
(not much processing in LR ......I could process the images more Profile is Apple ProRaw for the iPhone and Adobe colour for the Leica)
iPhone 17 Pro - Original Image - (settings are really Auto - 28mm @1/430th sec - f1.8 ISO 80 - locked focus on guy)
iPhone 17 Pro - CROP from above image
Leica Q Crop from image below
Leica Q Original image - 24MP sensor and 42MB file - 1/1000 sec - f2.2 - ISO 100 ....... 28mm lens ...........DNG file .......not much processing
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BillN_33
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yep Winchester Alby, Thanks
(I think that it's all going to be in the (colour) processing with this iPhone ........ plus "horses for courses")
(but for posting on the internet ...... images get scaled right down ........... I would think that when I print a few offf I will notice more of a difference....... depending on the size)
Here's 2 more quite big crops to compare ......iPhone 17 and Leica Q Typ 116
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Phil V
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I’d be interested to know which of those images most closely resembles the colour of the actual items.
But then I’ve always been a fan of Canon’s neutral colour palette
BillN_33
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It was a bright sun/dark shadow day today Phil..........not ideal for photography ..... re-thinking what I said ......some research needed
(for me, what the iPhone 17 has now given is that for "Street" photography it is what I will use plus what (we) normally use the camera for in mobile phones, which I suppose is what I wanted)........
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BillN_33
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Apple ProRAW is a photo format for compatible iPhones that combines a standard RAW file's unprocessed data with Apple's computational photography features like Smart HDR and Deep Fusion, providing more creative flexibility to edit exposure, color, and white balance while offering a superior editing starting point compared to traditional JPEGs
Apple ProRAW was introduced in late 2020 with the release of the iPhone 12 Pro series and the iOS 14.3 update. It combines the information from a standard RAW format with Apple's image processing features, providing greater creative control for users to edit their photos
Apple ProRAW combines standard RAW data with Apple's computational photography processing, resulting in a distinct look that offers greater flexibility for editing color and white balance. It does not impose a single, static color profile but instead uses a highly dynamic, intelligent process that can be adjusted in editing.
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The camera on modern phones is the reason I upgrade them regularly. I like having a decent camera all the time for those moments when I don't have a full sized one with me. I also tend to use them to compliment each other. I'll have a longer lens or specialist lens on my camera for the things that a phone can't do as well, but use my phone for the closer or well lit images so that I don't have to worry about swapping or carrying different lenses.
That said, the cameras on phones are getting so good now, the instances where I fee like I need an actual camera are becoming less. Usually just wildlife and astro now where I use an actual camera.
That said, the cameras on phones are getting so good now, the instances where I fee like I need an actual camera are becoming less. Usually just wildlife and astro now where I use an actual camera.
Your first sentence is something of a contradiction. If the cameras are so good, why do you need to upgrade them so regularly?
Indeed, and this leads me back to reviews of the new phone which I watched on the day of its launch. The main review I have in mind was not from some random reviewer either, but from someone who evangelises the product and uses it as a work tool. Part of their review involved showing how bad the previous generation was in comparison. That previous generation was doubtless the Greatest Thing just one year ago.
The inbuilt obsolescence in all of this is ridiculous.
imattersuk
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This boils down to one thing for a general snap / image, do you want to view the subject or pixel peep ?
"Proper" cameras will always have their place but for most the last few versions of an iPhone are more than adequate.
iPhone also gets the exposure pretty spot on compared to a "proper" camera that's used in auto mode and you can obviously intervene with manual controls on a camera and the latest iPhones.
"Proper" cameras will always have their place but for most the last few versions of an iPhone are more than adequate.
iPhone also gets the exposure pretty spot on compared to a "proper" camera that's used in auto mode and you can obviously intervene with manual controls on a camera and the latest iPhones.
Why the scare quotes? They're really unnecessary.
Ah, but would you be happy if Apple were sending the message that your 16 was a dud all along? The one you spent a lot of money on?
BillN_33
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I had 9 years out of the iPhone 7 and I believe that as each year goes by you need to update the operating system for the phone to be secure ....... especially if you now use your phone for stuff like Banking Apps, BA tickets, etc, etc.......... so the iPhone 7 cost me £60 pa writing off the initial capital cost and I would think that the 17 Pro will last me up to 10 years so say £100 pa going forward ..... I don't have a contract and just have a Vodaphone SIM and pay £10 a month for calls ........... I never use all the minutes as most of my calls are made from indoors using WiFi .......
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I'm not speaking of the phone itself. The same could be said of a Nokia 6210.
Was the iPhone 7 not performing all of those functions for you anyway?
BillN_33
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iPhone 7 - apart from the improvements and compatibility with my (upgraded) computers........Apple no longer update/support the OS on the phone