Would these be acceptable? ** New pics added **

PaulF

PaulF

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Paul
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Hi,

The Karate club my son goes to is having a tournament this weekend and I have been asked to take some shots of the demonstration.
I had the chance of a little practice at the squad training last weekend. The light is rubbish, I could manage to set a custom white balance in the camera so no issue with that but I had to push the ISO way up to get a decent shutter speed. (the EXIF should be intact below)

The below have been cropped and been through Lightroom only so far.

Would these be acceptable? They will most likely end up on the club's website.

Oh, and any advice as how to improve would be great.
The equipment I have available is a D5000, 18-55 kit lens and a 70-300 VR lens.

Paul.

1.
DSC_0162.jpg


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3.
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5.
DSC_0148.jpg
 
Agree with the above. A few of them seem to have the mats at the back wall in focus but not the people you meant to focus on. From positioning it looks like you might be using the centre AF point. You could always try to focus and recompose or perhaps the quicker way would be to use the outer AF points as I assume you want to get both people in the shot.

You could also use your 70-300 to focus on one person at a time to try and get some interesting action shots. One last thing is maybe you might need a slightly higher shutter speed because I'm guessing when you get some real action going on their arms/legs will be moving at quite some speed and 125/sec may not be enough to freeze the action.

Good luck with it though. Looks like it could be really interesting and I'd say it's a solid first effort with just a couple things to try out next time.

Tom N.
 
Do you think they are acceptable. How does the quality of your images compare to previous/other images?

As mentioned above, you need to be aware of what you camera is focusing on. It's hard enough to get a clean shot with low light and high ISO as it is, without your camera focusing on the person at the back rather than where the action is.
 
yep - agree with above they are all out of focus! You really need faster glass too.
 
Hi. I've shot a fair few MAs, including Kendo, TKD, Judo and Ju Jitsu. Try and click to capture the action: #1 has nothing much going on, #they are facing away from you. #2, #4 and #5 are better, but are oof. My rule of thumb is set ISO to auto or pretty high, 1600 or higher may be, use either TV mode and stick to at least 1/400, and use widest aperture. May be try flash directed upwards (with permission). There's always clutter in the background in these sports halls, just try to minimize. I don't use Nikon, but I find centre spot AI Servo works quite well, and use motor drive for multiple shot. I also shoot from low level.
http://photodivauk.wordpress.com/2010/04/02/martial-arts-seminar/
 
Is it possible to select a different viewpoint that wouldn't give you the people in the background, as they are a little distracting.

Agree with others about your focus issues. Going with my point above, if it's not possible to change your viewpoint, you really need to nail your focus to lift your subjects from the people behind them.
 
in my honest opinion, they are all either blurry or out of focus. the vr will help in low light situations but only to an extent. you should consider buying a flash gun for the event, will allow you faster shutter speeds to freeze the action.
 
high ISO, fast lens, Shutter Priority set as fast as you can get it, closest subject priority on focusing, keep the frame closed down on them and the result is usually an in focus frozen (well almost, usually the feat blur) image capturing the kicks and punches without much focusing problems.
 
Hi, Thanks for the comments, I've taken another look at the raw files and the focus point on most of these was either in between the participants or on the rear wall with maybe a gloved hand in a corner, I have other's taken with the 70-300 which appear better but they are of the younger ones and although have a little action in them I don't want to post them here yet without the parents permission!

Here's one with my lad in it:
DSC_0019.jpg


Some good pointers in the replies, thank you all, hopefully I'll have a better chance of doing them justice.

I was concentrating so much on trying to get a decent amount of light through the lens with a decent shutter speed without too much noise. Some taken at ISO 1600 are very very noisy :thumbsdown: and was not really too concerned about getting great shots.

Derek - This was a squad session, the tournament next weekend will be using the whole hall and there 'shouldn't' be anything behind them except a big grey wall!

Buying more kit for this is not an option unfortunately :(
 
PaulF said:
Buying more kit for this is not an option unfortunately :(
Click to expand...

The bottom line is your kit/and possibly your technique is not good enough for this type of subject matter. Sorry - but true. Doesn't mean you can't do it - just means it's going to be a lot harder for you to get pro results.
 
Hey not much experience in this field. But I think you could improve the picture a bit in Photoshop or what ever you use.

Hope you dont mind but all I have done is set the black and white point in curves and used high pass sharpen at 22% opacity. Think its shows the white off better?

There are other bits etc but I didnt want to play too much.

DSC_0019.jpg
 
awp said:
The bottom line is your kit/and possibly your technique is not good enough for this type of subject matter. Sorry - but true. Doesn't mean you can't do it - just means it's going to be a lot harder for you to get pro results.
Click to expand...

Dont know, Fuji S5 and the nifty fifty 1.8 you can usually get away in those halls at 1600 iso with something like 125/150 shutter speed and in shutter prioroty you get a sway between f2.8/5.6 depending on reflected light (aka how much white shirt you get in frame)

but a fast lens will allways be better then a kit lens.

and as for ISO, you have to make the compremise, there is no choice.
 
as I said with the right technique it is do-able - but without the best kit for the job - it's a lot harder to pull off.
 
Personally would bang the iso to 1600 if you needed it....there are some good noise reduction out there.
 
awp said:
The bottom line is your kit/and possibly your technique is not good enough for this type of subject matter. Sorry - but true. Doesn't mean you can't do it - just means it's going to be a lot harder for you to get pro results.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your 'straight to the point' approach, you could well be right :) I'm relatively new to photography and usually I shoot outdoors so this is well out of my comfort zone, if I have one.........

Robbo said:
Hey not much experience in this field. But I think you could improve the picture a bit in Photoshop or what ever you use.

Hope you dont mind but all I have done is set the black and white point in curves and used high pass sharpen at 22% opacity. Think its shows the white off better?

There are other bits etc but I didnt want to play too much.
Click to expand...

I don't mind at all.

JasonRS said:
I'd start by renting this

Nikkor 70-200 2.8

http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/nikon-af-s-70-200mm-f28-g-if-ed-vr-44-p.asp

Or if you need the 300mm reach, this

Sigma 120-300 2.8

http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/sigman-apo-120-300mm-f28-ex-dg-hsm-39-p.asp

Then throw a couple of remote fired flash into the mix (beg or borrow)
Click to expand...

This may be interesting, I certainly don't need the extra reach, the flash would not be an option though.......

I have had a look at the clubs website and compared to the photo's they already have (some from Camera Phones), mine will be far better, quality wise. I still want to do the best I can achieve but at least there won't be any pressure :D
 
As someone that takes lots of judo shots I think you've got as good a set of results as you're gonna get with kit quality lenses. Moving to a faster lens will make your life sooooo much easier - think about hiring one if the cost of buying is too prohibitive. Going to manual focusing will also help.

I spent a whole day wading through my judo shots recording the focal lengths they were taken at and used that information to determine which lens to buy. Settled on a used 24-70mm f/2.8 which lets me get fast enough shutter speeds to freeze the action when it's wanted and the wide aperture blurs out those distracting backgrounds.

Your D5000 has (IIRC) got the same sensor as my D90 so don't be afraid to crank up the ISO too - I regularly use upto ISO 2000 - just make sure that the shot is well exposed and you'll hardly see the noise at all.

HTH :-)
 
as steve as just suggested try manual focus i do agree with alot of the other comments but sometimes you have to make do with what youve got,could you not take some staged shots afterwards outside in better light just a thought....:thinking:
 
It depends if it is a paid-for job. I am really surprised what some people are prepared to accept. At work iPhone is usually the 'camera of choice' and I have a very hard time to get any assignments.
Based on that they might be happy with these images for free. Technically, they are not good enough, sorry. Fast glass and high ISO are a must. You should consider at least 85mm f/1.8 or 50mm f/1.4, maybe a Sigma 70-200 (good copy if that exists). If you are getting any reward it should not be an issue to buy a lens for work.
 
Well it looks like I need to get faster glass. Looking at the shots I have around 50mm should be ok plus I would have other uses for it (justifying it to myself now :thinking:).

I've had a look at Warehouse Express and there appears to be 2x 50mm f/1.4 lenses one at £240'ish (Nikon 50mm f1.4 D AF Lens)the other £300'ish, (Nikon 50mm f1.4 G AF-S Lens, what does that G mean?) is the only difference the noise of the autofocus or am I missing something?

Got to rush off to work now......may get chance to dig a little deeper later.

Thanks for all the info so far.
 
As Steve said with his lens of choice. I usually shoot the Muay Thai gradings at our club and sometimes the inter-clubs we hold. I also use a 24-70mm f/2.8

I tried a few others, but for the distance I usually am, it has a good enough reach at 70mm.
 
PaulF said:
I've had a look at Warehouse Express and there appears to be 2x 50mm f/1.4 lenses one at £240'ish (Nikon 50mm f1.4 D AF Lens)the other £300'ish, (Nikon 50mm f1.4 G AF-S Lens, what does that G mean?) is the only difference the noise of the autofocus or am I missing something?
.
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G means it's got an electronic diaphragm control, meaning it can only be used with the very latest Nikon cameras like your D5000.

D-series lenses have a mechanical aperture control as well as the electronic contacts, meaning it will work on all Nikon cameras going back to about 1980...
 
Bristolian said:
As someone that takes lots of judo shots I think you've got as good a set of results as you're gonna get with kit quality lenses. Moving to a faster lens will make your life sooooo much easier - think about hiring one if the cost of buying is too prohibitive. Going to manual focusing will also help.

I spent a whole day wading through my judo shots recording the focal lengths they were taken at and used that information to determine which lens to buy. Settled on a used 24-70mm f/2.8 which lets me get fast enough shutter speeds to freeze the action when it's wanted and the wide aperture blurs out those distracting backgrounds.

Your D5000 has (IIRC) got the same sensor as my D90 so don't be afraid to crank up the ISO too - I regularly use upto ISO 2000 - just make sure that the shot is well exposed and you'll hardly see the noise at all.

HTH :-)
Click to expand...

Brooksy said:
As Steve said with his lens of choice. I usually shoot the Muay Thai gradings at our club and sometimes the inter-clubs we hold. I also use a 24-70mm f/2.8

I tried a few others, but for the distance I usually am, it has a good enough reach at 70mm.
Click to expand...

This looks a good lens but I cannot justify the £1100 for the use I will get from it.

Arkady said:
G means it's got an electronic diaphragm control, meaning it can only be used with the very latest Nikon cameras like your D5000.

D-series lenses have a mechanical aperture control as well as the electronic contacts, meaning it will work on all Nikon cameras going back to about 1980...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification, so the G is designed for the later models.
 
Hi Paul
Looks like you're main prob is not having a fast lens - big expense to hire for a few shots to help out the club.

Here's my take on a wee rescue on number two
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DSC_0161.jpg

 
^^^^^^

good show of what improvements can be made in PP to give the best of what you have.
 
Paul, I could not afford £1100 either, wish I could afford the Nikon glass, but alas not! I got the Sigma version from this forum for around £240.
Just keep an eye out. They have come up a number of times.
 
Can you get close? I don't know nikon stuff well, but for my Canon 50D I bought a 50mm f1.4 for stuff like this, then it's just a case of upping the iso to get the shutter speed. A good fast lens for not a lot of money, especially if you are lucky and pick one up secondhand.
 
Rockshifter said:
Hi Paul
Looks like you're main prob is not having a fast lens - big expense to hire for a few shots to help out the club.

Here's my take on a wee rescue on number two
Click to expand...

Now I really need to learn photoshop a bit more, how long did that take? I'm guessing duplicate layer, mask out foreground then blur like crazy?
 
PaulF said:
Now I really need to learn photoshop a bit more, how long did that take? I'm guessing duplicate layer, mask out foreground then blur like crazy?
Click to expand...

Pretty much, use lens blur or gaussian blur how ever its spelt lol

looks like the colours have been altered by curves with the black and white points to.
 
Brooksy said:
Paul, I could not afford £1100 either, wish I could afford the Nikon glass, but alas not! I got the Sigma version from this forum for around £240.
Just keep an eye out. They have come up a number of times.
Click to expand...

I'm with Brooksy on this - paid £120 on eBay for a Sigma as I couldn't justify the Nikon price. Sorry, should have mentioned that in my post :)

The only problem I see with using a prime (like the 50mm or 85mm others have mentioned) is the need to zoom with your feet. This isn't always (i.e. almost never is) practical as there are too many people milling around close to the mat/walking behind you. If you still favour the 50mm prime then why not the f/1.8 instead of the f/1.4? There's a magnitude of difference in the price for not much difference in the DOF.
 
Robbo said:
Pretty much, use lens blur or gaussian blur how ever its spelt lol

looks like the colours have been altered by curves with the black and white points to.
Click to expand...

PaulF said:
Now I really need to learn photoshop a bit more, how long did that take? I'm guessing duplicate layer, mask out foreground then blur like crazy?
Click to expand...

That's about it - bit lens blur after selecting B/G (and save selection to use later)which on this image was pretty quick and easy.
Used saved selection inverse and apply curve to taste and also a little sharpen.
Took about ten mins.
 
All the images wouldn't be keepers.

I always pic out only my best shots to process, still keeping the others if needed later.

I love PP as much as taking the pictures, watch your image develop on the computer into a final piece.
 
awp said:
...but if you shoot a couple of hundred images on the night......that's a LOT of processing time!
Click to expand...

As Robbo say, you'll only work on your best shots to get the most from them.
Obviously the better the pix you take in camera, then you'll only be tweaking the shots... and the tweaks on most pix tend to be 90% the same (I do try to reduce my continuing mistakes in camera) , so you go into auto mode and can work pretty fast.

Robbo is also correct in noting that playing around with and image can be fun... or a pain in the a*** when you have a good pic which you can't process right.
 
Rockshifter said:
As Robbo say, you'll only work on your best shots to get the most from them.
Obviously the better the pix you take in camera, then you'll only be tweaking the shots... and the tweaks on most pix tend to be 90% the same (I do try to reduce my continuing mistakes in camera) , so you go into auto mode and can work pretty fast.

Robbo is also correct in noting that playing around with and image can be fun... or a pain in the a*** when you have a good pic which you can't process right.
Click to expand...

There are 2 levels of processing: RAW conversion with various tweaks (very quick and easy to replicate to other pictures) and high level photoshopping. I rarely go into the second, and only for portfolio photos or paid-for shots when needed. Good RAW conversion in Lightroom is really enough for most well executed shots, and only takes a few minutes for a batch. PS is a right pain on the other hand. Salvaging a weak photo is mostly too expensive in terms of effort and time given the end result.
 
Robbo said:
All the images wouldn't be keepers.
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I'm well aware of that!

Rockshifter said:
As Robbo say, you'll only work on your best shots to get the most from them.
Click to expand...

But he may well up with a couple of dozen shots - and that is still far too much time at 10 minutes per image. I'd be looking to process the entire job in less than 5 minutes in LR!
 
awp said:
But he may well up with a couple of dozen shots - and that is still far too much time at 10 minutes per image. I'd be looking to process the entire job in less than 5 minutes in LR!
Click to expand...

You're looking from a pro / business perspective, PaulF is just taking some pix of his kid and others at the event and will spend whatever time he can spare to end up with the best he can get for as many as he can get.
 
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