Worthy enough for medical treatment?

It's rubbish, such a policy would not be legal, it would fall foul of age discrimination laws for a start...reading it the whole thing stinks of looking for a story where one doesn't exist, it's full on conjecture and supposition
 
I don't know what to say myself, stuff like this just makes my blood boil. I'd hate to think of people getting denied treatment. It's just another way of saying your a worthless piece of cr4p, go die!

What I do know for sure though is this thread is going to get interesting lol.
 
Well, going by the criteria "of most benefit to society" I reckon the elderly are way ahead of the lowlife scum who put nothing into the system but expect everything to be paid for.


Ducks and runs away......:exit: and then gets coat and leaves.....:coat:
 
Neeeeever gonna happen.
 
The policy seems highly unethical & very dubious, but it'd be good to have a report on what's in the document, rather then speculation as to what maybe
 
should also mean we stop paying for fat people to get stomach surgery and gender reassignments too.
 
POAH said:
should also mean we stop paying for fat people to get stomach surgery and gender reassignments too.
Click to expand...

Fat people get bariatric surgery AND gender reassignment?
Seems a bit harsh. :p
 
Very different.
 
viv1969 said:
Fat people get bariatric surgery AND gender reassignment?
Seems a bit harsh. :p
Click to expand...

I got neither, despite being somewhat overweight! And despite possibly being unworthy (and it could be argued missed by few!), they did commit a fair amount of time and effort into mending me.

As for the Liverpool Care Pathway, the least said the better. If I had had the courage, I would have smothered Mum as she went down it and I'm pretty sure she would have welcomed the release.
 
I have no worries...I am more than beneficial to society....well that's what I keep telling myself.. ;)
 
We could spend every penny this country earns on the NHS and all we would have is more sick people. Ever since man has been doing "medicine" people have had to make decisions on who lives or who dies.
 
This really isn't anything new though is it?

NICE have been doing this kind of thing for years already
 
I have no idea if this would ever get implemented, but then I have no idea how they reach the criteria these days anyway. A few years ago I saw a specialist about my nose, I've got collapsed nasal valves and struggle to breath through it, and he decided it would warrant an op to implant a titanium butterfly in my nose which would give me, at 45 years old, a much improved quality of life. However, the funding was turned down by the hospital committee as they'd decided to give gender reassignment treatment to a 78 year old man who'd happily been living as a woman for around 30 years already. Go figure!
 
Nice shouldnt even exist for anything other than determining if drugs are safe to be used here.
They are nothing to do with care & quality just a rationing body sneaked in by the back door.

I mean how can they argue against providing any drug or treatment that prolongs life or reduces symptoms? such things are relative to the person suffering the illness and though for nice 2 years extra of life may be nothing to worry about to the person concerned they mean the world.

We just cant run a national health service to the constraints of budgets that are constantly trimmed, maybe if they stopped handing out free care to everyone who walked in the door it would help.
Of course if someone needs life or death treatment give it, but anything else take their credit card details before giving the care, no money, no treatment.
 
magicaxeman said:
Of course if someone needs life or death treatment give it, but anything else take their credit card details before giving the care, no money, no treatment.
Click to expand...

I think thats very short sighted. Of course, I agree with you re Health Tourism. But firstly the NHS is not the border agency. Its not the NHS's job to vet every patient and make sure they have the right to be in the country.

What happens when you have an asylum seeker say who has say a contagious, nasty but non fatal illness. Do you allow them to spread that disease amongst the community, possibly reducing their future economic value as well? or just treat it. Same with a vaccine, do you give it (and thus contribute to the net positive effect of that vaccination program) or not give it (reducing the effectiveness of the whole program)? Its in societies interest to make sure as a whole its healthy
 
It's already happening to some degree and not only eith the elderly.
A friend needed major heart surgery at 52 but was told as it would only last a few years they would rather wait and
do it when her was older rather then have to do it again in a few years.
The op would have meant he could return to work, something he wanted to do, sadly he never made the few years :(
Three years a go I went into hospital on fast track to have some surgery done, talking to a few older people recently it seems
that I was lucky that I needed it when I did as now over a certain age you are just left with it, not life threatening just
uncomfortable, so live with it :(

We have the argument that obese people and smokers shouldn't get treatment.
Why ?Both pay their taxs and in smokers cases a lot more then most of us :thinking:

Alocoholism and just plain binge drinking seems to be a lot more acceptable but I like to see the figures
for what that costs the country, both in treatment for those who drink and what they cost the NHS for
those that are unjured or killed by them.

I truly beleive that all cosmetic surgery should be put at the bottom of a very long list and stay there
unless really necessary in the case of disfigurement, why should my taxes pay for bigger boobs, facelifts etc
just because someone wants to be a model whilst people with real medical conditions are left to suffer ?

One thing I do agree with is charging for visits to A&E and doctors, would only need to be a small charge
but a recent visit to A&E made me realise the timewasters that go there, and before anyone says it, I was sent by
my doctor
 
There has always been and always will be a certain amount of rationing. A lot we seem to accept without question. Others for some reason we don't accept.
 
Gremlin said:
One thing I do agree with is charging for visits to A&E and doctors, would only need to be a small charge
but a recent visit to A&E made me realise the timewasters that go there, and before anyone says it, I was sent by
my doctor
Click to expand...

That's all fair and well, but what happens to the John Doe who has £1.50 in his pocket? How long before "ah, we don't know who he is, he has no money on him...why should we treat him?"
It's a very real scenario BTW. (John Doe could need life saving treatment, could have alzhimers and not know his name, have severe mental health issues, just not be able to identify themselves for whatever reason, etc...)

...Or the chronically ill who have to see their GP twice a week, or Jimmy down the street who has lost his job and has to wait x amount of weeks before he gets any benefit? Why are these people's lives less worthy than those who have, I don't know, £15 to spare that day?
 
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Gremlin said:
It's already happening to some degree and not only eith the elderly.
A friend needed major heart surgery at 52 but was told as it would only last a few years they would rather wait and
do it when her was older rather then have to do it again in a few years.
The op would have meant he could return to work, something he wanted to do, sadly he never made the few years :(
Three years a go I went into hospital on fast track to have some surgery done, talking to a few older people recently it seems
that I was lucky that I needed it when I did as now over a certain age you are just left with it, not life threatening just
uncomfortable, so live with it :(

We have the argument that obese people and smokers shouldn't get treatment.
Why ?Both pay their taxs and in smokers cases a lot more then most of us :thinking:

Alocoholism and just plain binge drinking seems to be a lot more acceptable but I like to see the figures
for what that costs the country, both in treatment for those who drink and what they cost the NHS for
those that are unjured or killed by them.

I truly beleive that all cosmetic surgery should be put at the bottom of a very long list and stay there
unless really necessary in the case of disfigurement, why should my taxes pay for bigger boobs, facelifts etc
just because someone wants to be a model whilst people with real medical conditions are left to suffer ?

One thing I do agree with is charging for visits to A&E and doctors, would only need to be a small charge
but a recent visit to A&E made me realise the timewasters that go there, and before anyone says it, I was sent by
my doctor
Click to expand...

The time wasters is a very good point, in my crash last year which I dread to think just how much that cost in emergency services alone :eek: it was sad to see the amount of time wasting gits there were in there, one that stood out to me was one shouting about its disgusting I've had to wait this long give me an appointment and I'll come back another day WTF if you don't want to wait patiently and would rather come back another day is it really something that you should be in an emergency department for? Go to your doctor...okay I wasn't in the best mood as I was seriously sore and had been stuck sat on possibly the most uncomfortable wheelchair in the world for the last 7 hours :(
 
MWHCVT said:
The time wasters is a very good point, in my crash last year which I dread to think just how much that cost in emergency services alone :eek: it was sad to see the amount of time wasting gits there were in there, one that stood out to me was one shouting about its disgusting I've had to wait this long give me an appointment and I'll come back another day WTF if you don't want to wait patiently and would rather come back another day is it really something that you should be in an emergency department for? Go to your doctor...okay I wasn't in the best mood as I was seriously sore and had been stuck sat on possibly the most uncomfortable wheelchair in the world for the last 7 hours :(
Click to expand...
In my area, timewasters seem to be a real problem. The way a Dr friend explained it to me, the A&E gets flooded with non urgent cases for 2 basic reasons.
1. People who genuinely think that the standard of expertise is higher at A&E than at their local surgery
2. People who aren't registered with a Dr., possibly because they aren't in the country legally, so they have to go to the A&E where they aren't asked any questions.

Both types seem to have the system well sussed - they turn up with as many kids as they can bring along, and claim that they're in agony, to avoid a long wait.
 
Garry Edwards said:
In my area, timewasters seem to be a real problem. The way a Dr friend explained it to me, the A&E gets flooded with non urgent cases for 2 basic reasons.
1. People who genuinely think that the standard of expertise is higher at A&E than at their local surgery
2. People who aren't registered with a Dr., possibly because they aren't in the country legally, so they have to go to the A&E where they aren't asked any questions.

Both types seem to have the system well sussed - they turn up with as many kids as they can bring along, and claim that they're in agony, to avoid a long wait.
Click to expand...

Indeed that does seem to be a big issue, my sister who lives in Ireland as been a charge nurse in one of the Dublin hospitals for 3 years now and given over there they have no NHS she tells me they have it as bad over there because those that have health cover use A&E for absolutely every little thing
 
There seem to be a couple of issues here which stem from one common cause: there is not enough money to give everyone what they want and sometimes what they need.

I used to disagree with the idea of bariatric surgery, cosmetic surgery and gender reassignment (sex change). Someone pointed out to me that the lifelong counselling and support required far outweigh the cost of doing these procedures. I draw the line at women having labial surgery because they've become self conscious and aren't aware of what's "normal". This is made worse by porn and its influence of removal of pubic hair, exposing what was once hidden.

I've worked in A&E. Once I worked on Christmas Day. It was dead quiet, maybe 6-7 patients who really needed to be there (stroke, heart attack, pneumonia etc). No one else pitched up. Compare this to the day before and after when it was heaving. I had one patient who said he couldn't get an appointment for a problem that could only be sorted by his GP. Imagine his surprise when I rang his GP surgery and got him an appointment that day. He didn't go and rocked up to A&E. When pressed, he said the GP appointment didn't suit him and this is typical of the public - "I want to be seen now and I don't care about anyone else or the fact that I've had a sore throat for one day".

The danger of charging is that people will want their money's worth, will come with a hundred problems that they want sorted and it also changes the dynamic of the consultation.
 
MWHCVT said:
Indeed that does seem to be a big issue, my sister who lives in Ireland as been a charge nurse in one of the Dublin hospitals for 3 years now and given over there they have no NHS she tells me they have it as bad over there because those that have health cover use A&E for absolutely every little thing
Click to expand...


They do have public service hospitals (HSE) that operate the same was as the NHS
 
MWHCVT said:
The time wasters is a very good point, in my crash last year which I dread to think just how much that cost in emergency services alone :eek: it was sad to see the amount of time wasting gits there were in there, one that stood out to me was one shouting about its disgusting I've had to wait this long give me an appointment and I'll come back another day WTF if you don't want to wait patiently and would rather come back another day is it really something that you should be in an emergency department for? Go to your doctor...okay I wasn't in the best mood as I was seriously sore and had been stuck sat on possibly the most uncomfortable wheelchair in the world for the last 7 hours :(
Click to expand...

What was the person in there for Mat?
 
Keith W said:
What was the person in there for Mat?
Click to expand...

From what I could tell though the wall and some morphine it was something longstanding condition that his GP was dealing with and that he needed to wait for an appointment for tests, but though A&E would be quicker, I do know that one nurse was almost in tears from him shouting at her
 
In my sisters early days as a nurse in A&E she had to deal with a drunk who had fallen over and cut his hand.

The drunk kept trying to "touch" my sister and got verbally aggressive when she told him no.

She then refused to treat him any more because of his behaviour, the drunk then accused her of stealing all his wages, the police were called & my sister was arrested & taken to the police station - This all happened mid night shift.

My sister was kept in the cells over night and wasn't released until lunch time the next day

No charges were ever bought against my sister as they found out that the drunk had used his wages to, you guessed it, to get drunk
 
The very elderly all (almost all) have a massive advantage in the "worthy" stakes having been involved in supporting our fight against the evil Germans in WWII ...

I once got pointed at in an aggressive way by a Dutchman, so I guess I have a long way to go to become "worthy" enough. :)

Keith : I heard we pay drunks booze money ... its called an allowance.
 
speculation from a university professor about something that's going out for consultation. Great story from the Independent :meh: :indifferent:
 
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