Working for Agencies - making my first step, advice please

[MrRichAllen1976]

Massively, MASSIVELY, incorrect.

Falsehood! I have been messed about by every Agency in Sheffield including Remploy, who despite being a disability confident employment Agency, kept telling me not to declare my disabilities on any job application, which proves my theory that the 2010 Equality Act ain't worth spit because the Tories don't and never will enforce it.

 

[DemiLion]

Falsehood! I have been messed about by every Agency in Sheffield including Remploy, who despite being a disability confident employment Agency, kept telling me not to declare my disabilities on any job application, which proves my theory that the 2010 Equality Act ain't worth spit because the Tories don't and never will enforce it.

Rich, trust me on this, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about - meant in the kindest possible way.

Employment agencies have absolutely b****r all to do with sports photo agencies. They are not even in the same ball park (intended)

 

[Seba]

Unless you want to get messed about a LOT, do NOT work for Agencies, trust me I've been down that road several times.

We talking freelance/on spec or staff?

I have done all three. I can't say I have been 'messed about'.

I have had slow payments, yes, and there have been things that I chalked up to honest human error, like any other job. But I can honestly say I have never been 'messed about'. I have worked for a broad range of both agencies and clients in the years doing photography, and have found everyone I have worked for to be good people.

 

[andrewc]

We talking freelance/on spec or staff?

I have done all three. I can't say I have been 'messed about'.

I have had slow payments, yes, and there have been things that I chalked up to honest human error, like any other job. But I can honestly say I have never been 'messed about'. I have worked for a broad range of both agencies and clients in the years doing photography, and have found everyone I have worked for to be good people.

Rich is confused and has never worked for a photo agency. He may have had dealings with employment agencies which are very different.

 

[DemiLion]

We talking freelance/on spec or staff?

I have done all three. I can't say I have been 'messed about'.

I have had slow payments, yes, and there have been things that I chalked up to honest human error, like any other job. But I can honestly say I have never been 'messed about'. I have worked for a broad range of both agencies and clients in the years doing photography, and have found everyone I have worked for to be good people.

What Andrew said.

 

[Seba]

Oh, ok. I'll go back to doing my stocks...

 

[TimHughes]

On the FTP direct from camera, I found that works ok if you have good wifi but I never had that at a sports venue, over the phone it's just too much messing about and failed transmissions so I also find it much fast to put the card in the laptop, select with PM, the FTP using Filezilla. I'm using Canon and the firmware 1.5.0 for R5 includes a couple of fixes for FTP so I may test it out again because if it worked it would be better for some situations.

 

[wookie6262]

On the FTP direct from camera, I found that works ok if you have good wifi but I never had that at a sports venue, over the phone it's just too much messing about and failed transmissions so I also find it much fast to put the card in the laptop, select with PM, the FTP using Filezilla. I'm using Canon and the firmware 1.5.0 for R5 includes a couple of fixes for FTP so I may test it out again because if it worked it would be better for some situations.

Cheers, I pretty much do that but PM is now doing a good job sending via SFTP so that keeps the workflow all in PM which helps. Another game tonight and very glad the weather in Scotland isn't too bad

 

[wookie6262]

Game off tonight due to waterlogged pitch. Can't say I am too disappointed looking at the weather

 

[KIPAX]

Game off tonight due to waterlogged pitch. Can't say I am too disappointed looking at the weather

find another.. whimp!

 

[wookie6262]

find another.. whimp!

It was the only one on so I have a great excuse to stay warm tonight. Hope anyone else out shooting stays safe and keeps their iCaps firmly secured

 

[KIPAX]

It was the only one on so I have a great excuse to stay warm tonight. Hope anyone else out shooting stays safe and keeps their iCaps firmly secured

I did go out to retrive the bins earlier as they where half way down the rd... 2 minute job.. soaked less rain on sat more wind... so I can breath easy

 

[wookie6262]

I did go out to retrive the bins earlier as they where half way down the rd... 2 minute job.. soaked less rain on sat more wind... so I can breath easy

I already had tickets for Hibs but was tempted to try for Dundee Utd v The Rangers. trying to keep costs in check though and only do games a bit closer. None next weekend either as I am away to Easter Road and Murrayfield to watch the games. I watched a video earlier of a wheelie bin flying 100ft high and being blown around like a paper bag. Weather isn't too bad in Bonnie Scotland thankfully

 

[KTC]

Cheers, I pretty much do that but PM is now doing a good job sending via SFTP so that keeps the workflow all in PM which helps. Another game tonight and very glad the weather in Scotland isn't too bad

PM has problems if the wifi connection isn't stable like a certain Premiership football ground in London that shall remain unnamed. If it hangs partway through an upload, it may not be able to continue / restart from scratch. Have had to log in with Filezilla and delete what's on the server and tried again. Just something to bear in mind if that ever happens to you.

 

[wookie6262]

PM has problems if the wifi connection isn't stable like a certain Premiership football ground in London that shall remain unnamed. If it hangs partway through an upload, it may not be able to continue / restart from scratch. Have had to log in with Filezilla and delete what's on the server and tried again. Just something to bear in mind if that ever happens to you.

I have filezilla loaded on the laptop just in case. I have had to resend a couple in PM so may have been connection issues. I am just using my phone for an internet connection and it could be better.

 

[wookie6262]

Nice local game to cover tonight. Not much chance of a paper picking any up as despite Bonnyrigg Rose clinching a play off place the club photographer is sending his in to the paper free gratis. Hopefully, he leaves it too late for the deadline, as I suggested he might to help me out, but we will see. 5-0 to the Rosey Posey and caught three of the goals. I've only had two goals at my end in the previous 7 games so not exactly well practiced. The cameras performed very well in pretty dim conditions and really pleased with the Sony jpegs and their noise reduction. I headed the 5 minutes home to send the bulk of the images off as the frost was starting to form on the camera bag as I left the ground. Keywording is starting to speed up as is my ability to take a mental note of what players are playing where and their numbers. Here is the fifth goal and my favourite of the night.

 

[KIPAX]

Nice local game to cover tonight. Not much chance of a paper picking any up

Put them on a website and sell them to players and family.. still make money... even if you havent got a website you can use 3rd party ones.. plenty about

everything is for sale... nothing is for free

 

[wookie6262]

Put them on a website and sell them to players and family.. still make money... even if you havent got a website you can use 3rd party ones.. plenty about

everything is for sale... nothing is for free

There is a club photographer who puts hundreds on all at a good size and he has decent kit and knows what he is doing. Still not heard anything from the local age group teams so might have to get a bit more proactive. I took a photo of a wee lad invading the pitch at yesterday's game and their mum got in touch. Asked the agency what you would do in that circumstance and waiting to hear back but it could be a sale, however small.

 

[KIPAX]

There is a club photographer who puts hundreds on all at a good size and he has decent kit and knows what he is doing. Still not heard anything from the local age group teams so might have to get a bit more proactive. I took a photo of a wee lad invading the pitch at yesterday's game and their mum got in touch. Asked the agency what you would do in that circumstance and waiting to hear back but it could be a sale, however small.

You may have a picture he hasnt got
people might find your pictures and not his (now or in years to come)

evrything is for sale... nothing is for free

ADDYONBIT I get sales from 10-15 yrs ago .look at the long game.. will the other guys pics be available then.. sometimes players retire and only then start looking for pics... or kids grow up and want to show there kids...

 

[wookie6262]

Livingston v Celtic yesterday. First game I have covered when I never needed rain gear or a woolly hat. Nice to be able to feel my finger on the shutter too and actually worry about having a quick enough shutter speed not to run out of iso and overexpose.

4 goals with 2 at my end. One cele which I caught in between obstructions but never did great with the two goals. One I lost behind a crowd on play and one I got good images right to the point of the contact with the ball where the focus jumped to the background which was strongly lit with the players in shade. Celtic seem to have about 8 photographers at every game who change ends with the way they are shooting. I was the only down the other end second half but the game never panned out to make that advantage with Celtic getting a second and third fairly early in the half. Stenhousemuir tomorrow and hopefully I will get a sale at some point.

 

[wookie6262]

The darkest game I have covered last night. Venue was the dungeon that is Ochilview Park where Stenhousemuir were defeated by an injury time goal by Kelty Hearts. As usual there was an issue or two. My hand must have moved the dial and I ended up shooting a good ten minutes at 1/200. It certainly made the rain look impressive in the odd shot that was sharp. I usually lock the dials but had to change the shutter down to 1/000 and must have forgot to lock them again. There was so little action I never missed much. The Sony's did pretty well shooting at iso25600 and the images would certainly be good enough for the media. I shot the 135mm at F2 to get a little better quality in the gloom and that worked well for the little goalmouth action there was. Another learning step and although I was at the wrong end for the goal I was nice and dry with the stand giving cover. The weather was horrific and the photographer who did brave the elements got their reward with a nice couple of shots of the goal.

 

[wookie6262]

A few goals for a change at a match I photographed and most up my end. The sun was an issue during the game and particularly so late on when you were turning towards goal and the light was making it difficult to see what was going on. At least it was fairly warm and dry and I was actually pretty speedy getting the images tagged and away. The ever rising price of fuel is starting to make me think about limiting my games to those that are a bit closer as it is becoming pretty costly to drive these days.

The first image is a frame of the last goal, a nice bullet header. I have cropped it in a bit but it did get me thinking should I be shooting wider so there is more story. To be honest everything happens so quickly zooming and framing comes after getting the scorer in frame and that usually means the scorer is central in the frame and the goalie and goal are not in shot or only partially so need cropped. Also the lens I am using does not focus well when also zooming. It is the main reason I want an upgrade.

What are everyone's thoughts on shooting the goalmouth action. Do you keep it loose and crop in or get as tight as you can. Action and impact or context if you have to choose. Also when you are shooting crosses and corners do you follow the ball or anticipate where it will end up and try and wait for it to arrive. I do both and haven't worked out what is more successful yet. If I guess right then anticipating works better but the risk is you miss something

 

[wookie6262]

An adventure for me last night taking in a fantastic game as Leeds beat Wolves 3-2. A very different experience from the Scottish games I have covered with a press room, free food and a programme. Caught lots of good shots and think I did well but the competition at these games meant another blank from the media. It was all about the experience though and well worth the long drive and money forked out on fuel. A ladies SWPL game tomorrow will feel a bit different but for me it will actually be a bit more pressure in some ways.

 

[wookie6262]

A big game for me on Sunday as I was doing a trial for SNS in the hope of picking up some paid work. The game went pretty well with the odd wobble here and there. Good game to photograph with 5 goals and the Hibs ladies sporting a Ukraine inspired strip. I enjoyed working to a brief too and that is something I will do whether or not I am given one from now on as it really focusses the mind. I also sent directly to the image desk from camera and for the most part that went pretty well. I'll have to refine a few things to keep the file sizes down though and I have ordered a 5g mifi router in the hope that will help. It will at least take the wireless connection away from one camera and mean I can upload from the best out of two networks or use my phone for one camera and the mifi for the other.

The images and their delivery were good enough to be offered some work from SNS and this has meant I had to leave the Agency I started with jut 2 months ago. It was sad to go as they gave me the chance and I have learned so much from them during the short time I worked with them. I think it is the right move and I will always be grateful to them for the start they gave me. It is a fast moving business though and very different for me leaving a job after a few months when I have worked in my day job for over 36 years. As I was told by someone far wiser in Sports photography than me - follow the money, and that is what ultimately made my mind up, even though I felt a bit guilty cutting and running.

So another new beginning and as I will only get the odd paid game here and there it is time to start the search to see if another Agency will take me on to cover games in Scotland and fill the gaps between the paid gigs that will hopefully come my way. I've sent a few emails away and I hope I can combine work for SNS with another Agency. If not then I am going to concentrate on Youth Sports and try to build up a small business photographing the local teams for both Rugby and Football.

Here is one from Sunday

 

[wookie6262]

I took in the u16 and U18 Boys and Girls Finals at Murrayfield on Sunday. I didn't plan to make any money from it but it turned out quite well. I had been playing with watermarking images in Photomechanic and had left the tick box on. So when I uploaded the files to Facebook they were all watermarked. I noticed for the next gallery and switched it off as I wanted to see if there was interest in the images and if watermarking made a difference. Did another gallery watermarked and another one with watermarks. Low and behold when the games were finished I had a few emails and Facebook messages asking to buy the watermarked images. That will be the last time I post any youth sports images on my feeds that are not watermarked as it turned into a decent earner and shows if I can get into these games I have a chance of getting some income.

I have now approached about 6 local football clubs and a few individual teams. Not had a single reply from any of them. It amazes me as when my son played football and Rugby there wasn't an issue taking photos and the players and their parents loved the. There is a market there but I can't quite get a foot on the ladder and that is offering the first couple of teams that sign up a freebie. I think I would have more joy if I could get a direct line to the teams coaches but that info is all locked down on the fixtures website.

I also replied to a local advert on Facebook asking for second shooters. I have done weddings before and hated it but the idea of candid shooting appeals to me. That may lead somewhere as I have a coffee appointment with the lead shooter in a couple of weeks.

A mixed week and I still await my first paid assignment which will hopefully come next month. I also have another gig shooting the Glasgow Epic Trail 10K. A pretty boring brief but it will be more money coming in the right direction and more contacts made

 

[wookie6262]

A few more sales from Sunday's rugby and a couple of leads followed up for youth rugby and football that might get my foot in the door.

 

[Jim_Tod]

Simon

just gone through your thread. not a section of the forum i normally venture into. Wish you all the best in your venture.

jim

 

[dancook]

A few more sales from Sunday's rugby and a couple of leads followed up for youth rugby and football that might get my foot in the door.

I shoot high school sports among everything else, your first few photos (looking great!) have already shown me maybe I need to get back away from the line if I’m to capture a decent angle on the near goal.

Any tips for positions?

 

[wookie6262]

Simon

just gone through your thread. not a section of the forum i normally venture into. Wish you all the best in your venture.

jim

Thanks Jim, slow going but I'm enjoying the journey

 

[wookie6262]

A local game last night gave me the opportunity to get my name known a bit more and test a new 70-200. Left the house for the 5 minute trip in lovely sunshine and left the game at half time after a monsoon had passed through. My skin even felt wet when I sat in the car. New lens performed well but not much action down my end. I caught the only goal of the half well enough and the gear survived the rain. I am starting to get into the habit of putting the images up on my website whether I was there with the intention to sell or not. I am also shooting anything that interests me and could be a sale. @KIPAX gave great advice to me and I am now starting to put it into action. I actually got a sale from an image of a player's son playing up for me doing flicks and tricks. It won't be a fortune but it was a valuable lesson that money is possible even at games you thought it wouldn't be. It also starts to change my mindset from hobby to professional photographer. They are very different things when it comes to sport imo.

More positive news yesterday as my new agency got in touch and said I should get a couple of assignments before the end of teh month. Nervous but really looking forward to working from a brief and getting a fee to attend the game.

 

[wookie6262]

Another couple of very modest earners in the last couple of weeks. A few sales from a Scotland U18 match and a small cheque for covering a boxing night for a friend. My first paid shift for SNS has been agreed and the fee is very welcome and will hopefully become a regular part of my income. I'll be shooting the Southern Knights on Saturday, a gig which I did quite a few times for fun last year. I'm very pleased to have moved from doing it for fun to actually getting a shift in the 4 months that I have actively been trying to make a business of my sports photography. Youth football is still eluding me but there are lots of Cup Finals coming up so I will be emailing in the hope of securing an invite and some money coming in. All in all I'm pretty pleased at the way it is going and I guess I am ahead of plan in terms of the Agency work and behind in terms of a local presence. That being said my Facebook page is growing slowly and I am a better known person than I was. Contacts and relationships are going to be key going forward so I'll keep working away hoping for a break or two.

 

[wookie6262]

First paid shift done. Not a game I will remember as there wasn't huge amounts of action down my end, despite moving a few times. No complaints from the client so I suppose I will take that. Really weird taking images of advertising and branding and having a brief to shoot water bottles etc.as well as all the normal stuff. I liked working to the brief and it gave good structure to the day and made you keep your eyes open. Hopefully they will start hiring me regularly now and between that, running events and private jobs I am doing better than I thought I would. Add in starting doing some second shooting at weddings and it will soon all add up. FTP was pretty slow and as voice tags are very helpful to the desk I think another camera with the ability to do 5Ghz wifi and record voice tags might be on the cards

 

[wookie6262]

First running event done and another few quid in the kitty. Very unusual start with a Cow halting the start of the race by getting over a fence on to the course followed by one of its mates. The positions they asked me to shoot from were pretty dreadful in terms of background and were both backlit with a harsh high sun. Surprisingly I quite enjoyed offering the runners encouragement and feeling part of the event.

 

[toohuge]

Thanks for keeping us updated on your adventure @wookie6262 it's great to see your adventure unfold! Glad that you are picking up a few more paid gigs near you - are there any Universities near you? I don't take paid work anymore, but there's usually a good number of opportunities for sport / event photography - many Uni teams have their own budgets / media and there are other departments at the Uni that may want some promotional stuff to use over and over again on their socials - might be an idea for some additional revenue avenues?

Good luck!

 

[wookie6262]

Thanks for keeping us updated on your adventure @wookie6262 it's great to see your adventure unfold! Glad that you are picking up a few more paid gigs near you - are there any Universities near you? I don't take paid work anymore, but there's usually a good number of opportunities for sport / event photography - many Uni teams have their own budgets / media and there are other departments at the Uni that may want some promotional stuff to use over and over again on their socials - might be an idea for some additional revenue avenues?

Good luck!

I've shot the Women's Rugby team at Edinburgh uni a good few times and get the odd paid gig for that. I did approach them, Edinburgh, but they try and do their media inhouse as it obviously helps the students having subjects to work with. At least that is what they told me and when I approached them I was just looking for opportunities to cover different sports. Might have a look at some of the other Unis and see if they have teams for some of the less popular sports. I don't want to go fully down the road of a camera being only associated with money and still want to shoot for fun

 

[toohuge]

I've shot the Women's Rugby team at Edinburgh uni a good few times and get the odd paid gig for that. I did approach them, Edinburgh, but they try and do their media inhouse as it obviously helps the students having subjects to work with. At least that is what they told me and when I approached them I was just looking for opportunities to cover different sports. Might have a look at some of the other Unis and see if they have teams for some of the less popular sports. I don't want to go fully down the road of a camera being only associated with money and still want to shoot for fun

I get that @wookie6262 that's why I only shoot for fun now

 

[wookie6262]

Still no bites from local youth football clubs. I emailed another 4 clubs, as they have cup finals coming up at venues close to me, but not a single reply. No joy from the three agencies I approached either with a knockback from one and no reply from the other two. I was honest and said I was doing work from SNS so that may be partly the reason but one Agency gave feedback on my work and they felt I wasn't up to their requirements yet. No problem with that as it just spurs me on to get better

Got my next job for SNS coming up with the Edinburgh v Glasgow Rugby fixture. That will be the biggest Rugby game so far and really looking forward to it as the atmosphere will be great and the action is usually intense.

Also diversified a bit with some Dog Photography and a bit of Theatre photography. Very similar to the sports in that I used to do these gigs for mates for free or just because I enjoyed it. Now I have said I will take the images but will only deliver a watermarked gallery. I then give them a price for individual images and one for the gallery. So far so good they have bought the gallery and that gives me a decent hourly rate which is what I am looking for.

The more I am thinking about earning money from sports the more I think it will be action photography rather than sports. I will specialise in taking images that capture a moment in time and of non posed subjects. That is where I feel I have the most interest and I will look to start doing some more dog photography as I really enjoy that.

 

[KIPAX]

The more I am thinking about earning money from sports the more I think it will be action photography rather than sports. I will specialise in taking images that capture a moment in time and of non posed subjects. That is where I feel I have the most interest and I will look to start doing some more dog photography as I really enjoy that.

Thats exactly what it has always said at the top of my website.. KIPAX Action Photography

Try contacting the clubs by social media.. they usually al have some sort of presence and its amazing the amount of time they have not got an email from me or say they havent.. but impossible to ignore you on FB/Twitter etc

I do dog photogrphay and theatre work.. not alot.. just now and then ... lots of galleries on my website for both

 

[wookie6262]

Thats exactly what it has always said at the top of my website.. KIPAX Action Photography

Try contacting the clubs by social media.. they usually al have some sort of presence and its amazing the amount of time they have not got an email from me or say they havent.. but impossible to ignore you on FB/Twitter etc

I do dog photogrphay and theatre work.. not alot.. just now and then ... lots of galleries on my website for both

It was dogs, running, theatre and rugby in the last week and a half. All paid so not too shabby. I'll keep trying youth football but having talked to a few photographers up here it is a market that is near impossible to crack. There is a non profit in that space and it has pretty much ruined it for any enterprising photographer

 

[KIPAX]

It was dogs, running, theatre and rugby in the last week and a half. All paid so not too shabby. I'll keep trying youth football but having talked to a few photographers up here it is a market that is near impossible to crack. There is a non profit in that space and it has pretty much ruined it for any enterprising photographer

Whoever is doing ti for free cant cover every match.... be the one who does crack it