Working at Height

Grayman

Grayman

Suspended / Banned
Messages
1,089
Name
Graeme
Edit My Images
Yes
Just a quick thought...would a photographer using a step ladder (i.e. wedding togger etc) not need to do a Working at Heights training course?:thinking:

Believe me, I am no H&S nut, where I come from it is virtually non-existant, it's just as I sit here bored out of my mind the question popped into my head:cuckoo:!
 
I would not ask anyone working FOR me to do anything that would potentially put them at risk. But myself? Oh heck, on tables, up trees, on walls...............anything I feel will get me the shot I want. It's my risk to take.
 
AliB said:
I would not ask anyone working FOR me to do anything that would potentially put them at risk. But myself? Oh heck, on tables, up trees, on walls...............anything I feel will get me the shot I want. It's my risk to take.
Click to expand...

:plusone: I've been up trees and everthing! :)
 
H+S is about liability and being sued. If I climb on a chair to change a lightbulb at work, then fall I can sue the company I work for compo, cos they didn't tell me not too. Hence they have told me not too, and have a maintenance company to change the bulbs.

If you are working for yourself (like a window cleaner, or a tog) then climbing a ladder is a risk, but you can't sue yourself.

If you employ staff, then they could sue you, so you may wanna put them on a course.
 
iirc although i might be wrong , you are ok upto 1 metre off the ground , check up on that though ;)
 
Not any more you're not. I did a course a earlier this year and working at height is anywhere that you can fall off be it 1" or 100ft.
 
Mike Jackson said:
Not any more you're not. I did a course a earlier this year and working at height is anywhere that you can fall off be it 1" or 100ft.
Click to expand...

As far i know this is correct, anywhere you can fall from and be injured is classified as working at height.
 
Hmm, that means I have to be put on a training course before I climb the stairs to work again on Tuesday.
Oh well, might as well not bother going to work!
 
The worlds gone mad!
I'll accept the OP's point that he's no H&S nut, neither am I. But it's all about money and the danger of being sued. In the case of any "accident" it seems almost automatic now to look for someone else to blame, and then sue the pants off them. It's crazy.
 
Its a bit like asking if anyone shooting is going to get rsi in a finger.........get real and ask real questions please
 
Dangermouse1964 said:
Its a bit like asking if anyone shooting is going to get rsi in a finger.........get real and ask real questions please
Click to expand...

I would disagee...in fact I think it is a reasonable question. Let's just say a wedding photographer does fall off his/her stepladder during a wedding, just where would he/she stand(or lie!)? Would insurance pay out if he/she had not undertaken the appropriate training, knowing that they would 'working at height'?

I know that H&S has gone overboard in this country and I am not arguing that fact. It was just a simple question, worth perhaps bearing in mind. And no, I don't work in any H&S field, in fact I am often chastised about my disregard for it:p.
 
not for a step ladder, well our insurers dont require different money for it and to use a real ladder they want 3 grand a year (window cleaning)

and in a non professional sense I will do anything for the shot :D
 
It's not so much about the training with small heights it's about the risk assessment.

To start with you have to look at the equipment, is it in good condition, is it fit for purpose. In the building game we used to use milk crates to stand on as they were an ideal height. Occasionally you'ld put your foot through one but you lived with it. Looking back it was obvious that they weren't fit for purpose. That doesn't mean that people don't use them any more it means that, in the case of an accident, any payout will be substantially reduced due to the use of inappropriate equipment.

The next thing to look at is the position you put the equipment in. Is it stable? Will the ground support the weight of you and the platform/steps. Can you improve the stability/safety by tying in to something? a simple ratchet strap around railings can make a big difference.

It's also about duration. The requirements also change depending on duration of use. To take another example from the building industry. If I want to go up a ladder to remove one screw I can put the ladder up using a stand off and footplate and remove the screw. If I want to go up the ladder to drill a flue hole I need to tie the ladder into the building, put on my harness and clip onto the ladder whilst carrying out the work.

The biggest issue though is who are you putting at risk. If it's just yourself then you've got to live with the consequences. If it's your employees or the general public then you are likely to face massive financial penalties and, possibly, jail time if things go wrong.

Having said all that, when I take off my work clothes and pick up my camera it all goes out of the window. You'll see me with the best of them precariously perched on whatever comes to hand to get the shot I want.
 
check out the HSE website. i have to do lots of H&S courses with my work and as the H&S rep i am expected to have the answers!!! it is a deep and complicated world that has gone completely mad...I am a soldier in the army and even on Ops the H&S act has to be thought about:(

'A place is ‘at height’ if a person could
be injured falling from it, even if it is at or below ground level.

as for courses....consulting the HSE is the best approach if you have a business thay can answer any questions and even provide risk assesments through there website.
 
lawrie29 said:
H+S is about liability and being sued. If I climb on a chair to change a lightbulb at work, then fall I can sue the company I work for compo, cos they didn't tell me not too. Hence they have told me not too, and have a maintenance company to change the bulbs.

If you are working for yourself (like a window cleaner, or a tog) then climbing a ladder is a risk, but you can't sue yourself.

If you employ staff, then they could sue you, so you may wanna put them on a course.
Click to expand...

Health and Safety is not about liability and being sued! It is about making provision for securing the health, safety and welfare of persons at work, for protecting others against risks to health or safety in connection with the activities of persons at work. In other words taking proactive steps to look after your employees, yourself and others that may be affected by things that you do or do not do.

If you fail to do so then you may be prosecuted by the Health and Safety Executive. This can result in fines and/or imprisonment. Any sueing is a civil case between parties for financial compensation.

To take your example of a window cleaner or tog then should the ladder fail or slip, be interfered by someone else and the wind.clen/tog fall onto to people includind children, or they fall onto say fence railing, windows etc. then as they are responsible for health and safety of themselves and others by their actions they can be taken to task by the HSE.

Also if you did change the lightbulb at work and fell from a chair and you suffered injuries then your company would possibly be at fault for the accident but equally so will you for knowly carrying out a task that you were not employed for, not trained for, using unsuitable access equipment etc. The onus is just as much on you to act safely!
 
I have to agree with the last poster... and as a site manager on the Forth Rail Bridge where I put men to work on a daily basis at 100m above the River Forth more qualified than most to answer this question.

If you fall from any hight you have the potential to cause yourself and others harm. HSE laws do to some seem OTT, but the reason they are is that we are simply talking about human life! And life can simply be effected by any accident at work... and this is why in a work situation it is criminal to put someone in a position that could effect their wellbeing just because you need a job done to make money. My company take the view that nothing is so important that we cant take the time to do it safely... and this is not just about life threatening injury it's about anything.

Take the example of a photographer using a step ladder... a risk assesment will tell you there is not a big chance of him falling to his death or breaking a leg... however the more minor injury may actually be more threatening to him in his proffession... If he was to break or damage a finger for example... he may not be able to use a camera for six months...therefore loss of personal earnings... his family may suffer... etc etc...

I firmly believe that H and S is not OTT in this country... we maybe have got too PC and I think the issues sometimes get confussed or branded in the same bandwaggon... but any employer does not have the right to put any employee in a position where he does not go home from work in the same physical, mental or medical condition he arrived that day in.

For me it's as simple as that...
 
Yes my understanding of it is you should be trained when working with steps, and indeed a risk assesment should be made on each occasion.
It's also my understanding that steps should only be used for reaching low objects, they are not designed as a camera platform, and you should keep one hand on it at all times (making using the camera slightly more tricky) Taking say wedding groups from a steps, isn't what they were designed for, nor are they designed for use on uneven/soft ground, if you did fall it would make making any claim more difficult.
All that said we used them in packs when I was a press tog, but then the world was marginally less stupid then.
 
i think he would need an assistant to hold the ladder and get some good grounding on how to balance properly and set the ladder firmly on a spread board for on grass
there may be specially designed spreaders for stepladders in soft surfaces

and get a good accident lawyer
 
As I understand it you can use a ladder to reach somewhere to work but cannot work from the ladder itself

PS I am a plumber and have to use a cherry picker to work at height (and yes I had to get trained on the cherry picker and get a licence)

Cheers
 
Rocket58 said:
As I understand it you can use a ladder to reach somewhere to work but cannot work from the ladder itself
PS I am a plumber and have to use a cherry picker to work at height (and yes I had to get trained on the cherry picker and get a licence)
Cheers
Click to expand...

:thumbs: to that
i nearly fell of a stepladder doing a garage roof...good job someone was holding it
do you operate the cherry picker from the elevated platform
the steel erectors i knew used them a lot
 
mrcrow said:
do you operate the cherry picker from the elevated platform
the steel erectors i knew used them a lot
Click to expand...

It depends on the make of cherry picker. Some will not move elevated and some move very slow. The Controls are usually marked with a rabbit for fast and a snail for slow!!!

Cheers
 
There is no legislation, or guidance that bans work from a ladder, as Mark said previously the critical thing is to carry out a risk assessment and have a safe system of work.

Take the man who installed my neighbours satalite dish (employed by a large, well established and reputable co.), he safely installed the dish from a ladder by installing a wall fixing to which he secured the ladder before installing the dish.
 
The simple answer is that if you are asking someone to go up a ladder to do work... which you are allowed to do work off for short duration works provided a risk assesment has been carried out and the operative has been briefed in that risk assesment... then you as an employer are covered.

It is the employees duty to carry out his works in accordance with the brief... If he does not do that... and provided your risk assesment covered all the bases and you have proof you briefed the operative... then you cant be held responsable as an employer for the individual operatives negligence...

You could simply change operative for photographer or assistant here...

At the end of the day... all accidents can be prevented... its about where you draw the practical line... and money tends to be the deciding factor especially within smaller businesses!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top