Workflow addition - advice please!

[pjm1]

Hi guys

I'm very amateur and still learning the ropes but I love taking photos, sharing them etc. What I love less is some aspects of my workflow (feels wrong calling it workflow as it's a hobby, not work, but...)

I currently take a couple of thousand photos a month - subject probably isn't relevant, but either family shots, landscapes or hillwalking related. I use LR5 (which I love, btw) to manage my photo collection, do 95%+ of my editing and it also manages my exporting to HD, Flickr or other web.

What I really don't like is the time it takes me to sift through the 90% of non-keepers to get to the final selection of keepers. I find LR really slow for this. The time to zoom in to check focus, and then move to the next image is frustrating. I could probably set LR up to be slightly quicker, but I realise on my laptop it's never going to be perfect. I reckon this whole sorting process is by far the slowest step in my workflow - I doubt I spend more than a minute or two per keeper image actually making changes. Sure, occasionally I'll go to town and take it into PS, but that's probably only for 5% of my keepers.

What I'd really like (I think!) to do is have a preliminary step in my workflow which is the whole import bit... using a faster, dedicated application to review all the RAW files (DNG) and select just those ones I want to then import into LR. Something which is really quick at opening files, zooming to 1:1 to check focus, er... and that's it. I don't need any editing features and I don't want it to change the files (or filenames) in any way. Just a viewer and deleter would be fine.

For this reason I don't really want to spend $50 on FastPictureViewPro which otherwise looks good - and certainly don't want to splash out on Photo Mechanic as that would just be overkill. For me, speed of viewing, zooming etc. is of paramount importance as I can leave the computer running a batch import (as I currently do with LR) and come back when it's finished. Sure, it'd be great if I can just run it straight off the images on the card or even images copied to PC, but I'm not too fussed if it has to be batch. What I hate is having to wait 5 seconds for my computer to zoom into 1:1 or move onto the next image. It might not sound like much, but 10s per image for just 100 images is nigh on 20 minutes of my time wasted - for each import/mini shoot.

I also don't want it to start to conflict with LR - I don't want it to start messing around with the files or even renaming. I don't mind having an intermediate folder for importing before it gets properly imported by LR. Obviously the smoother the whole process can be, the better.

Any ideas? Preferably free, but I don't mind having to pay if that's the only solution which will be efficient and "work". I just don't want to pay for features I really don't need - as seems to be the case with FPVP or PM.

Thanks in advance...

Edited to add: I did a search but couldn't find specific recommendations which suit what I'm after - although a few lists of alternatives appeared. Help would be appreciated! I use Windows 8, btw.

 

[droj]

If only 10% of your images are what you think of as worthy of keeping, then it seems as if you're using your camera like a machine gun, without much thought. Learn to judge a shot more before you press that button. Easiest of all with landscapes, which aren't as a rule jumping about. Light, exposure, composition ...

 

[pjm1]

In part, you're right. I guess I take more photos than I "should". I certainly take way more shots than I ever would if I were using film, that's for sure.

But there are two reasons for that:

1. I'm learning and probably at the front end of that learning curve. I may be different from others (I probably am) but I find the easiest way for me to learn is by looking at the output and what I did that produced it. This means taking a decent number of fairly similar shots at different settings (tighter DOF vs shallower for example) and with slight changes to composition. I like to analyse, which means changing one variable at a time. This means more shots. When I'm using flash, this is compounded by not yet being au fait with balancing flash with ambient and also experimenting with different lighting positions, strengths etc.

2. 2/3rds of my photos are of young children. I'm simply not good enough to be able to lock focus all the time AND get just that right expression. If I take 5 shots, I might get one which is ok. If I take 20, I'm much more likely to get a good one. Yes, it's wasteful, but slowing down isn't going to help this - in fact, slowing down will mean I miss taking shots altogether. Edit: in my most recent series which was an outdoors "running around" shoot of my son, about 90% of my shots were in focus (eyelashes sharp)... unfortunately his expressions weren't great on most but there were a few where it was just that lucky moment.

I totally accept your point re: slowing down and I do want to do that. I'm just not sure whether it will actually help me at this stage. Right now, I feel like I'm better off taking 5x more photos than I "need to" and discarding the duff ones than overly restricting what I'm doing - as miss out on the learning.

Right now, I'm not a good photographer. I can, occasionally, be a lucky photographer. But I'd like to learn from my lucky shots and become a better photographer. Any advice on how to do that would be most welcome!

But in the mean time, I'd still like to improve my workflow with a faster way of previewing my RAW files...

 

[pjm1]

Update: Ok, I've tried a couple of alternatives and it seems like FastStone Image Viewer (the free one) is exactly what I'm after. It allows me to edit in or edit out and is very quick to preview as well as zoom to actual (1:1) to check focus.

My new workflow is just as straightforward - I can save a batch file to autorun on memory card insertion which copies the *.DNG files to my import directory and then runs FastStone. I can then delete the files I don't want and then import from this temporary holding directory in LR.

 

[chris2jz]

I used to do the same but the fact i had so many shots to go through made me start to take my time more and think about the composition and light before i took any shots . Quite often i just wander around with the camera off , looking through the viewfinder until i think i'm happy . I'll take a couple of shots in a location , view them and think about how if possible i can improve them before moving on .

Shooting my wee nephew running around is pure spray and pray though

 

[ianp5a]

I'm glad you found a solution. I'm surprised LR does not do this. I was going to suggest Digikam with it's preview mode. It lets you flick through your raw pictures keeping the zoom level the same if you want. As you go, you can delete, keep and tag/keyword them. You do not need to import them or anything. It will even let you do it direct from SD cards. I use Digikam for my whole workflow right from import, browse/edit/tag to web-upload.

 

[pjm1]

Yeah... it's a bit odd that LR doesn't have any facility for "quick import" or "quick review". I can understand why it is slow once files are imported, because of the way it works and the number of calculations it needs to do, but that's all the more reason for it to have a proper review & import facility, IMO. What I wanted to do what preview the files and check for focus. Maybe double-check a histogram for blown highlights or clipped shadows and that's it. I'm surprised more people don't ask for a similar facility.

I'll look at Digikam but for the moment, FastStone seems to work well. I'll spend the next week playing around with it and seeing what else it does. For the moment though, it's fast, it's free and it does what I need... so I'm pretty chuffed!

I like to import from SD card first as that means I can put the card straight back in the camera. When I don't do this, I find I get to "location" and discover the dreaded NO MEMORY CARD message...

 

[pingu666]

for kids my favourite camera is a instax wide, theres just something about the look of the pics, and kids love it

favourite moment is a girl asking why pictures dont come out the top of my a77

 

[ianp5a]

I like to import from SD card first as that means I can put the card straight back in the camera.
...
Maybe double-check a histogram for blown highlights or clipped shadows

I see. Digikam will also import from SD card, and you can also see the histogram or any other data as you review the pictures.

 

[Pookeyhead]

What I really don't like is the time it takes me to sift through the 90% of non-keepers to get to the final selection of keepers.

Then you need to start editing BEFORE you take the shots. Don't rattle off a million shots when one would do. Think about what you're shooting. If you have the time, look at the viewfinder as if it was the finished photo. If you can tell it's a bin job when in LR, then there's no reason to not be able to tell it's a bin job before you press the shutter.

 

[pjm1]

Then you need to start editing BEFORE you take the shots. Don't rattle off a million shots when one would do. Think about what you're shooting. If you have the time, look at the viewfinder as if it was the finished photo. If you can tell it's a bin job when in LR, then there's no reason to not be able to tell it's a bin job before you press the shutter.

Thanks - both you and droj have made the same (very valid) point. I guess what I'm struggling with is how do I avoid the "spray and pray" technique when I'm dealing with fast-moving child like objects? What should I be doing differently? My technique is to try to make sure I have focus and snap a couple of shots. I do this whenever I think I have a semi-interesting pose, but I definitely err on the side of "snap" rather than "don't snap".

Now that I've improved my focus technique, I reckon 80+% of my fast-moving shots are in focus (funnily enough my success rate is far better with my 50-135 than my wider angle lenses). But I still end up sifting through and discarding most because I just want the best couple of expressions/shots. If I took fewer, I'd end up with more or less the same number of keepers, but I'd probably be less happy with them.

Unless I could find a way of not clicking the shutter release when it's bound to be failure?? Help!

(By the way, when I'm taking shots of landscapes etc. I probably keep 25% of my shots - we're really talking about active kid shots)

 

[Pookeyhead]

Thanks - both you and droj have made the same (very valid) point. I guess what I'm struggling with is how do I avoid the "spray and pray" technique when I'm dealing with fast-moving child like objects?

Careful watching mainly. Practice predicting what they do, and knowing when stuff's about to kick off. Also, just fast reactions... keep 'em in frame, and keep the AF tracking, but trust yourself you squirt a few frames off when you start to see something happening instead of using prolonged buffer filling burst all the time. It's much the same as how experienced sports photographers will tell you they shoot far less frames than inexperienced ones, as they're used to being able to predict what may happen next through experience, and knowledge of the sport.

What should I be doing differently? My technique is to try to make sure I have focus and snap a couple of shots. I do this whenever I think I have a semi-interesting pose, but I definitely err on the side of "snap" rather than "don't snap".

Just err on teh side of don't snap. Wait until you see something you know you want. concentrate on them, watch them as people, not objects to be composed, framed etc, and just set a semi auto mode and trust the gear.

(By the way, when I'm taking shots of landscapes etc. I probably keep 25% of my shots - we're really talking about active kid shots)

Not sure what's going on with landscape then. Fast action will always incur a high attrition rate when you come to edit... although 90% is a bit much... However, landscape? I usually hardly ever bin anything. I just don't press the shutter unless I see what I wanted to get. There's always a few that don't work when viewed properly in the darkroom, but I'm at a loss to explain why 75% of your landscape shots are being binned. I probably bin about 1 in 20. In fact, It's rare I take that many overall. The only time I bin stuff normally is if I bracketed, and only choose one of a bracketed set. Unless I need HDR (proper HDR, not a psychedelic mess) I bin the others from the bracket. I have an idea of what I want, and I plan when the best time to take it is, and shoot when the light is right. If it's not... I pack up and go home usually. I know I've not got what I wanted, so what's the point? Are you shooting without really examining what's in the viewfinder carefully? Are you shooting in the hope that it can be made better in processing?

You're just wearing your camera out I know many will say this is redundant, out of date advice, but when I used to shoot a lot of landscape, I was using 120 film (10 shots a roll) or 5x4.. and I only had 3 darkslides, so that's 6 sheets of film. I still managed to get what I wanted. You really need to start looking at the image in your viewfinder, and thinking "If this was it... if this was the finished result.. am I happy with it?"

Digital has made people lazy I'm afraid, and spray and prey is not the way to go. Don't worry too much abut the fast moving kids... no one will be able to get a full set of fab images without binning loads... it's the nature of the game, and you'll get better able to predict and see things faster with experience, but binning 75% of landscapes tells me you're just not planning your shots, and you're not really looking at what's in your viewfinder.

 

[pjm1]

Not sure what's going on with landscape then. Fast action will always incur a high attrition rate when you come to edit... although 90% is a bit much... However, landscape? I usually hardly ever bin anything. I just don't press the shutter unless I see what I wanted to get. There's always a few that don't work when viewed properly in the darkroom, but I'm at a loss to explain why 75% of your landscape shots are being binned. I probably bin about 1 in 20. In fact, It's rare I take that many overall. I have an idea of what I want, and I plan when the best time to take it is, and shoot when the light is right. If it's not... I pack up and go home usually. I know I've not got what I wanted, so what's the point? Are you shooting without really examining what's in the viewfinder carefully? Are you shooting in the hope that it can be made better in processing?

You're just wearing your camera out I know many will say this is redundant, out of date advice, but when I used to shoot a lot of landscape, I was using 120 film (10 shots a roll) or 5x4.. and I only had 3 darkslides, so that's 6 sheets of film. I still managed to get what I wanted. You really need to start looking at the image in your viewfinder, and thinking "If this was it... if this was the finished result.. am I happy with it?"

Digital has made people lazy I'm afraid, and pray and spray is not the way to go. Don't worry too much abut the fast moving kids... no one will be able to get a full set of fab images without binning loads... it's the nature of the game, and you'll get better able to predict and see things faster with experience, but binning 75% of landscapes tells me you're just not planning your shots, and you're not really looking at what's in your viewfinder.

You're right. (But then you knew that anyway )... It's my composition which is causing me to bin so many landscapes. I'm still struggling to get "what works". So I take may 4-5 of the same basic shot but at slightly different angles, taking a few steps this way and a few steps that. When I'm then in LR, I look at them all and decide which one out of those 4-5 I prefer and why. Sometimes I'll be happier with my initial composition and only take a couple, but I certainly err on the side of "I can always delete it". I guess there's an obvious solution there: after taking the 4-5, look through them and delete those which aren't the best, in-camera.

It's probably worth pointing out it's far from the spray & pray technique I use with the UFOs (Uncontrollable Family Objects). There is a reason why I'm taking more - I don't have enough confidence in my composition to just "go" with what I'm seeing. Hopefully I will do at some point!

 

[Pookeyhead]

You're right. (But then you knew that anyway )... It's my composition which is causing me to bin so many landscapes. I'm still struggling to get "what works". So I take may 4-5 of the same basic shot but at slightly different angles, taking a few steps this way and a few steps that. When I'm then in LR, I look at them all and decide which one out of those 4-5 I prefer and why. Sometimes I'll be happier with my initial composition and only take a couple, but I certainly err on the side of "I can always delete it". I guess there's an obvious solution there: after taking the 4-5, look through them and delete those which aren't the best, in-camera.

It's probably worth pointing out it's far from the spray & pray technique I use with the UFOs (Uncontrollable Family Objects). There is a reason why I'm taking more - I don't have enough confidence in my composition to just "go" with what I'm seeing. Hopefully I will do at some point!

Jjst practice... that's all. Take your time... look around the viewfinder as if you were looking at a print. Analyse that the same way you are analysing the images when you are in LR. If you think about it, with composition, there's really no reason why you can't see what you see at home, actually at the time in your viewfinder.

 

[pjm1]

Thanks... that's the plan then! I think it's two things for me: 1. I get caught up in the excitement of "ooh, ooh, here's a shot" and 2. I'm still relying on comparing different compositions to determine what's the best one - editing out, rather than editing in...

I will get there, but as you say... it's practice, practice, practice.

Thanks!