Wireless Flash Triggers

DaveS2

DaveS2

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As I now have two Speedlite flashguns, a 420EX and a 430EXll, it would be nice to be able to fire them both off-camera.

Both can be used as 'Slaves' and are wireless receivers, but do not have the capability to transmit like the 580EX and 600EX variants.

It would seem financially illogical to buy a 600EX at £400+, just to fire another Speedlite.

So, I'm thinking that a wireless trigger would be a cost effective way to go.

The Canon trigger is around £174, but I see there are several 'other brands' (Chinese) at very attractive prices, the Yongnuo being a prominent one.

Has anyone had any experience with these non Canon wireless triggers, and could they be expected to work with the 5D Mklll and Canon Speedlites?

Dave
 
I use the rf603 with my nikon d90, sb800 and yn560 works well as long as you do not need ttl. If you want ttl have a look at yn622.
 
Thanks Kev, that's useful feedback.

I would like to have the option of using TTL, so I'll look at the yn622 as you suggest.

Dave
 
DaveS2 said:
Thanks Kev, that's useful feedback.

I would like to have the option of using TTL, so I'll look at the yn622 as you suggest.

Dave
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Dave,

Search the forum for yn622 you will get loads of reviews for people who use them.

Kev
 
The 622 triggers seem very popular & cheap and allow full control of the flashgun from the camera. Just check that your flashguns are supported - I am sure they are.
 
The 430exII is fully compatible with the Yongnuo 622. The 420ex less so.

Both depend on the camera body also being a fairly modern type that has the ability to control the flashgun through the camera. Your 5dIII is a perfect camera for this, and even has the 'quick menu' to get to the flash settings quickly - overcoming one of the minor UI shortcomings of the 622 (until the dedicated 622TX with lcd comes along, that is).

I've been using my 622c for over a year now, and I am still impressed.

Of course, you can always stay 'optical' trigger rather than 'radio' trigger, and get a YN STE2 copy which is compatible with both of your flashguns. Wouldn't recommend it though, it's old technology.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Speedlite...ories_CameraFlashUnits_JN&hash=item256c4406c5
 
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Thanks for your input guys, much appreciated.

However, I've pretty much decided what I'm going to do.

I have sold the 420EX, am keeping the 430EXll, and as I'm in no rush, the plan is to bide my time and see what deals. if any' come up on the 600EX-RT.

Maybe this will be included in Canon's next round of cash back offers, or of course there is always the 'grey route'. The 600EX-RT will provide me with a more powerful flash than the 430EXll, and it has both optical and 2.4GHz wireless capability. The optical option should work 'hand-in-glove' with the 430EXll in optical wireless mode, and if needs be, I can add a 2.4GHz wireless receiver to the 430EXll. I can also buy an off-camera flash-cord for the 600EX-RT and use both this and the 430EXll as an off-camera two flash system.

I did mention the 600EX-RT to Father Christmas, but when I told him the price, he wasn't too impressed. ;)

Dave
 
Getting one 600exrt appears pretty pointless to me and wastes their raison d'être.

I would get at least two, or one and an ste3 - but that thing doesn't have a IR Focus Assist.

You cant just 'add' a 2.4GHZ trigger to the 430exII and expect it to integrate with your Canon RT system - Canon don't make one for a start and are not likely ever to. They might launch a '450ex' as a budget option that is compatible with their RT system.

With Canon RT, it's all or nothing. You struggle to even integrate a studio light into the system.

Running a TTL cord for a 600 and using optical wireless? Couldn't imagine anything worse to be honest with you, imho.
 
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Kris,

What sort of range do you achieve with the YN622 triggers? Line of sight, and also if you have the trigger behind the subjects or other objects, roughly...?
 
Kris said:
Getting one 600exrt appears pretty pointless to me and wastes their raison d'être.

I would get at least two, or one and an ste3 - but that thing doesn't have a IR Focus Assist.

You cant just 'add' a 2.4GHZ trigger to the 430exII and expect it to integrate with your Canon RT system - Canon don't make one for a start and are not likely ever to. They might launch a '450ex' as a budget option that is compatible with their RT system.

With Canon RT, it's all or nothing. You struggle to even integrate a studio light into the system.

Running a TTL cord for a 600 and using optical wireless? Couldn't imagine anything worse to be honest with you, imho.
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Ok Kris, I am hearing what you say, and won't jump in any direction until I'm sure of what capability I am going to end up with.

Perhaps it might help if I was to explain what I would like to achieve.

I would like to be able to take better family portraits, my own family that is, but do not have, nor wish studio type equipment (lighting and umbrellas etc). In fact just within the home photography.

I have achieved reasonable success with a single ceiling bounced flash, but feel that using a second off-camera flash would offer more flexibility.

Given that I'm not talking any great distance here, perhaps an optical wireless link would be adequate?

In which case, another option would be to buy another 430EXll (£40 cash back at the moment = £169), and an ST-2 'clone'. Not the ridiculously overpriced Canon ST-2.

This should give me TTL capability.

Dave

P.S. The yn622c wireless triggers do look an attractive proposition, but I do have niggling worry that if they were to inflict some damage to the 5D Mklll, that has just cost me £2.3k, Canon would not want to know, with respect to any warranty repairs.

My concern is probably completely unfounded, but it is a concern.
 
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Dont have time to respond at the mo, just to say

DaveS2 said:
P.S. The yn622c wireless triggers do look an attractive proposition, but I do have niggling worry that if they were to inflict some damage to the 5D Mklll, that has just cost me £2.3k, Canon would not want to know, with respect to any warranty repairs.

My concern is probably completely unfounded, but it is a concern.
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is understandable, but unfounded. Canon Pro Services (CPS) told me so.
 
I went non ETTL and I don't miss it at all. I now have complete control - I bought a 602 trigger and a Yongnuo 560 Mk 3 flas (with built in wireless receiver!) brand new for about 75 quid all in. I'm asking Santa for a second. I'd worry less about the features and more about just taking more pics to be honest. Good review here if the 568: http://flashhavoc.com/yongnuo-yn-560-iii-review/
 
For a static setup, TTL is a waste, it's not only easy to set the flash power manually, you won't have to 2nd guess what the flashes will do when your subject changes her jumper.

If I was only ever doing static studio type stuff I'd get YN 603's, if you think you might sometimes benefit from TTL, get YN 622s.

But I'd love to know the reason you think Canon would honour your warranty if the ST-E2 clone killed your camera, but not a 622c? That doesn't appear logical to me.
 
Phil V said:
But I'd love to know the reason you think Canon would honour your warranty if the ST-E2 clone killed your camera, but not a 622c? That doesn't appear logical to me.
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You are right, its is totally illogical, and I wasn't thinking logically when I made that statement.

I should have said anything non Canon attached to the camera, and causing damage, would not be repairable under the Canon warranty.

However, Kris said the CPS told him that this is not the case.

Dave
 
Just bear in mind 602's have a slightly higher sync speed than the 603s. Phil, that's *exactly* what I mean about ETTL. You just don't know what it's going to do. I'm sure I'll have the odd candid fast shot where I'll think "I could have done with some ETTL there" but generally going manual has cured my fear of strobism..!
 
DaveS2 said:
You are right, its is totally illogical, and I wasn't thinking logically when I made that statement.

I should have said anything non Canon attached to the camera, and causing damage, would not be repairable under the Canon warranty.

However, Kris said the CPS told him that this is not the case.

Dave
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The warranty could lead you to that belief, but it includes lenses. :cuckoo:

Everyone knows it's unenforcable. If they could prove what you'd attached and that it definitely caused damage, there may be a reason to fear, but seriously, how could that happen?
 
I guess it is a very grey area Phil, and indeed I have used both Tamron and Sigma lenses on under warranty Canon cameras, and not thought about the warranty issue, albeit my current lenses are Canon L series.

Perhaps its the fact that the Chinese Yongnuo offerings are so cheap compared to the popular Japanese brands that we have come to know and trust.

For single on camera flash work, my existing 430EXll will do all that I want it to, so perhaps for a second and off camera flash set up, I should give serious consideration to the YN560lll, as suggested above, with a yn622 receiever for the 430EXll. Or a yn622 tx/rx plus a non wireless (2.4GHz) Yongno flash. Total cost cost circa £100.

Dave
 
That's where I've ended up, I sold the 'much better' Pocketwizard Flex's to buy 622s and 2 YN flashguns.

The YNs have so far been more reliable.
 
Phil V said:
That's where I've ended up, I sold the 'much better' Pocketwizard Flex's to buy 622s and 2 YN flashguns.
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Although, to present a balanced viewpoint, the PW Flexs have been the only TTL triggers I've ever had that have always worked reliably, without issue for me. Although I understand some of the problems with the Canon versions aren't there for the Nikon ones.
 
Hugh mine were mostly reliable for a while but let me down badly a couple of times. I'm putting it down to interference, but an angrier man would have jumped up and down on them. I literally came home from a wedding snarling expletives all the way through my downloading.
 
Phil V said:
If I was only ever doing static studio type stuff I'd get YN 603's, if you think you might sometimes benefit from TTL, get YN 622s.
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Do not equate YN622 triggers as being 'TTL' triggers, they do offer that, but also offer many other benefits.

Believe me, I'm a died in the wool manual shooter, but 622s allow me to remotely control the manual levels on a light that is strapped above head height, or on a boom arm, or clamped to a DJs lighting rig. TTL is only used when I shoot weddings on the run to be honest, and then I use FEL all the time.

Canon Pro Services will still warranty a claim to a camera which has had third party products attached to it.

The 560III is a basic, single pin, trigger only manual flash and is not compatible with the 622 beyond its own limitations. YN designate their advanced wireless capable (optical) flashes with the EX moniker, just like Canon. I know a 568ex is twice the price of a 560, but for my circumstances I think the extra coin is worth it. Then again, I don't own a YN flashgun and only use 580exIIs.
 
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Guys, your input has been very helpful indeed, and is much appreciated.

As I see it now, the sensible way forward for me, already having a recently purchased EX430EXll, is to buy another one while the Canon £40 Cash Back is still on, and either go for an ST-2 type optical system, or the YN622C.

At the moment, Amazon UK are offering the 430EXll for £192, which minus the £40 cash back, brings it down to £152, which is a pretty good deal I reckon.

I bought the last one from WEX at £209, which came down to £169 with Cash Back. When I could have got it £17 cheaper via Amazon.

In fact if I had bought two 430EXlls at the same time, I could have had another £35 bonus discount. Ah well, we live and learn I guess. :(

Dave
 
Really interesting reading as I was looking into remote flash control. I've been using my 7D's flash (optical?) control function for bouldering (rock climbing) shots, but came a bit unstuck when the sun came out or I wanted a flash behind me.

Generally I don't use ETTL for these, but being able to remotely dial the flashes up/down without the leg work would be ace.
Can I control them independently with the YN622's or would any power changes be applied to both?
 
Durbs said:
Really interesting reading as I was looking into remote flash control. I've been using my 7D's flash (optical?) control function for bouldering (rock climbing) shots, but came a bit unstuck when the sun came out or I wanted a flash behind me.

Generally I don't use ETTL for these, but being able to remotely dial the flashes up/down without the leg work would be ace.
Can I control them independently with the YN622's or would any power changes be applied to both?
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You can set groups. So independently.

But more than that, having set groups you can also put them on different channels and then choose which channels you fire, the flexibility from that is cool.
 
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David Bell said:
Kris,

What sort of range do you achieve with the YN622 triggers? Line of sight, and also if you have the trigger behind the subjects or other objects, roughly...?
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Sorry, missed this.

Radio transmissions radiate 360 degrees, so location of flash is irrelevant. I'm sure objects will lessen the effective distance, and the signal must weaken over distance itself.

The most I've ever needed has been 35 metres or so, and I cant remember ever having a misfire.
 
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Durbs said:
Really interesting reading as I was looking into remote flash control. I've been using my 7D's flash (optical?) control function for bouldering (rock climbing) shots, but came a bit unstuck when the sun came out or I wanted a flash behind me.

Generally I don't use ETTL for these, but being able to remotely dial the flashes up/down without the leg work would be ace.
Can I control them independently with the YN622's or would any power changes be applied to both?
Click to expand...

Yep, three independent groups in manual, or A:B and C in ttl ratios. They work in almost the exact same way as you are used to with the 7d's pop up master flash.

The 622 'convinces' the camera that what is on top is a master optical flash, and not a radio trigger. Remote 622s 'convince' the flash that it is sat on top of a camera, not on a radio trigger (therefore, do not set a remote flash to 'slave' mode but leave in standard ETTL). The 622 intercepts and interprets the data between the two and bridges the gap.

Clive's guide might assist you with other questions:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B77OmmGIg0gMVFpqNkpBYXBHajA/edit?pli=1
 
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Kris said:
Sorry, missed this.

Radio transmissions radiate 360 degrees, so location of flash is irrelevant. I'm sure objects will lessen the effective distance, and the signal must weaken over distance itself.

The most I've ever needed has been 35 metres or so, and I cant remember ever having a misfire.
Click to expand...

Radio transmission don't radiate 360 degrees unless the antenna is truly omnidirectional. There is very likely to be some directivity to the radiation pattern, but it should be fairly omnidirectional. The location of the flash is significant as range can be drastically reduced if placed behind an object or on the ground. Even the Phottix Odin triggers only have around 1/3 of their line of sight range when you start placing them behind the subjects. Range depends on how good the antennas are, how strong the transmission is on one end, how sensitive the receiver is at the other end, multipath effects (bouncing off objects) , interference etc. So I was keen to hear of any real world examples. I see they are quoted at 100m.
 
David Bell said:
Radio transmission don't radiate 360 degrees unless the antenna is truly omnidirectional. There is very likely to be some directivity to the radiation pattern, but it should be fairly omnidirectional. The location of the flash is significant as range can be drastically reduced if placed behind an object or on the ground. Even the Phottix Odin triggers only have around 1/3 of their line of sight range when you start placing them behind the subjects. Range depends on how good the antennas are, how strong the transmission is on one end, how sensitive the receiver is at the other end, multipath effects (bouncing off objects) , interference etc. So I was keen to hear of any real world examples. I see they are quoted at 100m.
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I don't recall anyone ever complaining about lack of range with a radio trigger. I've tested quite a few and down my street I can get 100m easily, and some will do 200m with line of sight. Transmitters are certainly directional to an extent, and conditions also play a significant part. Shooting down a residential street for example, as I did above, increases range as the signal bounces off buildings. On the other hand, Pocket Wizard say that 'large water-bearing objects' (trees!) reduce range, and raising the transmitter a bit higher increases it. Some triggers can be daisy-chained to increase range even further.

I also did the same tests with the receiver indoors behind a brick wall. That cut range from 200m to 40-50m. Interestingly, a couple of triggers using the lower 433MHz frequency (eg PW) performed relatively better at that.
 
Any triggers operating at 433MHz are generally up against it because of the much larger antenna size needed to perform well, versus the other systems operating at 2.4GHz (most of them). The PW Mini/Flex triggers have very poor range and I switched to the Odins because of that and also the lack of support at the time for the 5D3. Line of sight down a street is one thing, but not always representative. I often run out of range with my Odins based on how I shoot weddings, even though I get >130m line of sight. That's why I want something with better range without having to daisy chain triggers (which some PW triggers support) and still have control from the camera. Here is a blog I wrote comparing a few triggers... http://www.bellissimaphoto.co.uk/ph...din-versus-radio-popper-flash-triggering.html
 
David Bell said:
The PW Mini/Flex triggers have very poor range
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David,

Out of interest what do you mean by poor range?. I've never had a problem with them firing at ranges far greater then I'm ever going to use them for work,
 
David Bell said:
Radio transmission don't radiate 360 degrees unless the antenna is truly omnidirectional.
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Yes, technically, I'm sure you are right.

But we are talking triggers, not double physics. Compared to an STE2, they are very omnidirectional. I've been at all sorts of angles to the receiver, and never had a problem within any sort of normal photographic usage. Therefore, for me and most others circumstances (especially those that use optical), they are omnidirectional, or as omnidirectional as any trigger needs to be.
 
boyfalldown said:
David,

Out of interest what do you mean by poor range?. I've never had a problem with them firing at ranges far greater then I'm ever going to use them for work,
Click to expand...

Line of sight in a field, I could only get around 25 meters versus 130 or so with the Odins. The frequency they operate at isn't a good choice, especially since it is so close to the noise emitted by the Canon flashguns (more so a problem with the USA frequencies). They have all sorts of advice to improve range, like a shielding sock, dangling the receiver unit on a cord away from the flashgun. They're just not very good in my experience besides for being able to very quickly change power with the AC-3 which is brilliant. The Odins offer way more functionality as well and they're cheaper.
 
Kris I wouldn't compare any RF triggers to an ST-E2, which is like comparing a Porsche to a donkey cart, ha ha.
 
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