windows 8 pro surface tablet

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jonneymendoza

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=87f3d-aOOr8

some key highlights of the pro version:

  1. intergrated keyboard that acts as a cover
  2. built in kick-stand
  3. core i5 quad core cpu
  4. USB 3
  5. full Desktop OS(they demonstrated Lightroom 4!!!!)

this is the perfect travel tablet/ultrabook for the hobbiest/proffesionals who whish to have the power to PP there photo's, store them on external hdd's or back them up in the cloud.

this imo is the tablet i have been waiting for for years. all the ipads and android talets cant do half if not most of the things i have listed.

This to be soo ideal for traveling. Its a no brainer for me.

Thoughts?
 
It doesn't have a fruit on the back so no one is interested... ;)

But seriously it's a very interesting tablet although you missed one major factor... It also has pen input! Proper editing can be done with almost Wacom sensitivity. It'll also attach to and run external screens like any other windows laptop.
 
Problem for me is likely to be the price.

I quite fancy one for sofa browsing and travel but given the price of the RT version that only runs 'apps' not existing windows programs I can't see the Pro price being sensible.

We have an ipad 2 and I do use it but I really don't like it much. Think I just don't like the Apple way of doing things. Tablet yes, lack of connectivity (DLNA not supported and no simple USB for adding storage etc.) and restrictions on what you can do, no.

Wait and see the pricing for surface pro I suppose.
 
ding76uk said:
Anyone heard pricing on these? I just think that unless they are priced very competitively the could be the new Zune.
Click to expand...

Competitive with what in your opinion?

The surface pro is a proper pc tablet (unlike the RT & iPad) so should really be compared to ultrabook type machines.
 
Yep, I'm sure it will be priced competitively. If it's more than £1k then it'll start to get into the realms of a little uncompetitive...

Competition...

Macbook Air 11", Asus UX21 and to a lesser extent the 13" MBA, Asus UX31, Samsung Series 9.

The Windows RT version is the iPad competitor, the Pro is an i5 running, 4GB+RAM, 64/128GB storing computer in a tablet form factor and I'm guessing isn't expected to sell massive numbers, rather sell to those that need/want a tablet that can also be connected up to a bigger screen and mouse/keyboard and used to do your work on with a proper version of Word/Outlook or in my case a full fat version of Photoshop.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Core i5 quad core cpu
Click to expand...

As a side note it's not a quad-core CPU, it's a dual-core, hyper-threaded chip.

It's only a 17W chip, so compared to most laptops it's quite low clocked to fit in to the lower thermal envelope.
 
Thorburn said:
As a side note it's not a quad-core CPU, it's a dual-core, hyper-threaded chip.

It's only a 17W chip, so compared to most laptops it's quite low clocked to fit in to the lower thermal envelope.
Click to expand...

should still be decent enough. more cores doesnt really mean faster cpu :)

its all about the architecture itself and how it does its calculations
 
jonneymendoza said:
should still be decent enough. more cores doesnt really mean faster cpu :)

its all about the architecture itself and how it does its calculations
Click to expand...

Wasn't meant as disparaging, just clarifying. ;)

Extra cores are handy in things like Lightroom - ACR loves multiple cores and will sit across all 16-threads on my home system during Exports.
The architecture is the same as the mobile and desktop Ivy Bridge parts, but the tighter power envelope means the clock speeds are restricted - it's doing calculations in the same way, it's just doing fewer of them per second.
 
Im actually quite excited by these however may hold off unless I see some sort of official price point for the pro.
 
I'm looking forward to a Windows tablet with a real hard disk, something with 500Gb or so, but would need to be beefier with a bigger battery to cope with the heat and extra power.

On the other hand, the Asus Windows 8 tablet/laptop lineup looks extremely interesting.
 
H2O said:
Competitive with what in your opinion?

The surface pro is a proper pc tablet (unlike the RT & iPad) so should really be compared to ultrabook type machines.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree. But look at the 11" Air as competition. The key is persuading the average person it is not just an expensive iPad. Which is where I think they may fall down. It looks god, but I am not sure it is going to be marketed in the right way. The one thing though is they certainly can't afford to cock it up.
 
Dale_d3100 said:
I'm looking forward to a Windows tablet with a real hard disk, something with 500Gb or so, but would need to be beefier with a bigger battery to cope with the heat and extra power.

On the other hand, the Asus Windows 8 tablet/laptop lineup looks extremely interesting.
Click to expand...

a real hdd? these tablets do have real hdd's. if u mean mechanical old age ssd's then no, they are more power hungry, noiser, produces heat and larger then the ssd.

SSD is the future. give it 5 years and SSD will be the norm. it is kind of like the norm nowadays.

andrewc said:
The problem with something like this, is convincing the public that its more than an Android/iPad tablet.
Click to expand...

That is where the RT becomes pointless and confusing IMO.

they should just release the pro version instead. WIth the pro they can promote it and say "hey, first ever tablet to run a desktop OS"

The issue right now is this:

average joe walks into currys, sees a windows surface rt and say wow its a windows tablet running windows 8! i can finally run some of my favourite desktop apps on it! play some pc games etc!!

now when they buy it, reach home and grab an installation disk of there favourite desktop app and install it on there new surface RT tablet(u can install it still) and click the shortcut to run it. it will say this "sorry, but this pp cannot be run on this OS"

USER goes mental. "what the hell!!! this is windows 8!! why cant i run a freaking desktop app!! ahhhhhhhh!!

u see where i am getting at?

RT version could be MS's downfall actually
 
jonneymendoza said:
u see where i am getting at?
Click to expand...

yes, you're saying consumers are stupid enough to not do basic research into products before buying them.

From microsofts surface specifications web page,

RT OS: works exclusively with apps available in the windows store.

Pro OS: runs current windows 7 applications. Use the programs & the apps available in the windows store.

Seems pretty clear to me.
 
jonneymendoza said:
a real hdd? these tablets do have real hdd's. if u mean mechanical old age ssd's then no, they are more power hungry, noiser, produces heat and larger then the ssd.

SSD is the future. give it 5 years and SSD will be the norm. it is kind of like the norm nowadays.
Click to expand...

How much is a 1Tb 2.5" SSD? I have a lot of stuff I travel with and I'm not always where internet access is. I also like a one device route, not bring an external drive route

jonneymendoza said:
That is where the RT becomes pointless and confusing IMO.

they should just release the pro version instead. WIth the pro they can promote it and say "hey, first ever tablet to run a desktop OS"

The issue right now is this:

average joe walks into currys, sees a windows surface rt and say wow its a windows tablet running windows 8! i can finally run some of my favourite desktop apps on it! play some pc games etc!!

now when they buy it, reach home and grab an installation disk of there favourite desktop app and install it on there new surface RT tablet(u can install it still) and click the shortcut to run it. it will say this "sorry, but this pp cannot be run on this OS"

USER goes mental. "what the hell!!! this is windows 8!! why cant i run a freaking desktop app!! ahhhhhhhh!!

u see where i am getting at?

RT version could be MS's downfall actually
Click to expand...

I see you have missed the point of RT ;)

Installation disk?? ;)

We do not need the complications of Windows, I'm using Windows 8 on my laptop and each week I can do more and morein the new UI as companies release apps, for the average user do they need what is behind/next to the new UI.

The world is changing. Bye bye Sage 50 with all the hardware requirements, hello web based accounts at a fraction of the cost with more usable features. Bye bye bloated Act CRM, hello web based CRM again a lot cheaper. Bye bye large exchange/sage/Act server, hello smaller cheaper file server with office 365, everything in a browser or in an app.

Let's see where every ones favourite desktop apps end up.

Give it a year and see where we are ;)
 
H2O said:
yes, you're saying consumers are stupid enough to not do basic research into products before buying them.
Click to expand...

Sounds reasonable.

Just look at netbooks - early ones came with Linux and the return rates were very high as people found they didn't work with their Windows apps.

People will see Windows and expect things to just work, 99% of buyers won't understand the difference between x86 and ARM.
 
jonneymendoza said:
some key highlights of the pro version:

  1. full Desktop OS(they demonstrated Lightroom 4!!!!)
Click to expand...

So, I checked out the video. They demonstrated it opening Lightroom (very slowly) at around 27 minutes. They didn't actually get it to do anything.
 
RobertP said:
Problem for me is likely to be the price.

I quite fancy one for sofa browsing and travel but given the price of the RT version that only runs 'apps' not existing windows programs I can't see the Pro price being sensible.

.
Click to expand...

Only 6% off apps on the windows store do not support RT :)

developers are making sure that 'normal' apps will run on RT :)

I have to say that after watching todays demonstrations by Windows, showing Surface, Im sold :)
Much better demo than Apple does.More exciting as well

and they dropped surface to show it wont break ;D
they plugged d300s to usb port and it and managed to import photos straight away
 
No147-Undertaker.jpg
 
I'm very interested in Pro one - it looks like a nice portable machine that could also replace iPad. I am a bit concerned the pricing may be quite high, higher than MBA which would be a total deal breaker. It will be interesting to see if MS pricing will fall, unlike Apple.

But it does need to support at least 8GB to be any use of with LR and mandatory Antivirus even today. 4GB, sorry no.
 
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bastic said:
developers are making sure that 'normal' apps will run on RT :)
Click to expand...

Here's what Woody Leonhard says about Windows RT app development -

Windows RT should spur a new generation of touch-centric software, but it also presents a high barrier for apps you’ve come to know. Coding for the Windows RT platform is completely different from coding for traditional Windows. Some third-party software companies might try to rewrite their existing Windows programs to work in the tiled Windows RT/Metro world — and will fail. Many developers won’t bother; moving apps built for a mouse-and-keyboard environment to touch-and-swipe isn’t worth the effort.
Click to expand...

Source: Windows Secrets Newsletter.

If you're expecting to see PS-RT or LR-RT anytime soon (well, anytime) then you're going to be highly disappointed.
 
neil_g said:
i think we've had this discussion before (?) but 4Gb should be fine, its CPU that LR uses the most.
Click to expand...

We use Lightroom 4 for CPU performance demos and all our test systems (from Celerons to i7) are fitted with identical 4GB memory configurations. Adding memory makes a sub-1% difference in performance in terms of image processing and exporting, but to be fair that's only with a small library (50 images).

Given the fact it's all soldered down though it would be nice to see them fitting more - a lot of the Windows RT devices are only 2GB...
 
Thorburn said:
We use Lightroom 4 for CPU performance demos and all our test systems (from Celerons to i7) are fitted with identical 4GB memory configurations. Adding memory makes a sub-1% difference in performance in terms of image processing and exporting, but to be fair that's only with a small library (50 images).

Given the fact it's all soldered down though it would be nice to see them fitting more - a lot of the Windows RT devices are only 2GB...
Click to expand...

we've got 10,000's of images in our lib and it still rarely raises its head over 2gb usage.
 
As for the comments above about the difference between Windows 8 and Windows RT, i thought they were one in the same until i read this thread

As you say, all the marketing images make the screens look identical, so who wouldn't be confused by it, unless of course you have a real interest in technology like all those posting in here have, for the average guy/girl on the street (like me) i can image it being very confusing
 
rpsmith79 said:
As for the comments above about the difference between Windows 8 and Windows RT, i thought they were one in the same until i read this thread

As you say, all the marketing images make the screens look identical, so who wouldn't be confused by it, unless of course you have a real interest in technology like all those posting in here have, for the average guy/girl on the street (like me) i can image it being very confusing
Click to expand...

Exactly my point. Even I did not know about the difference between the rt and pro version until I read more about it.
 
hollis_f said:
If you're expecting to see PS-RT or LR-RT anytime soon (well, anytime) then you're going to be highly disappointed.
Click to expand...

You will be suprised ;)

They could get photoshop express wrapped up and in the market quite quickly I would of thought. Not the full photoshop, but the starting point for a new one.
 
rpsmith79 said:
As for the comments above about the difference between Windows 8 and Windows RT, i thought they were one in the same until i read this thread

As you say, all the marketing images make the screens look identical, so who wouldn't be confused by it, unless of course you have a real interest in technology like all those posting in here have, for the average guy/girl on the street (like me) i can image it being very confusing
Click to expand...

The screens are the same ;)

RT only has that screen and all apps run in that world

Pro has the desktop to run the old applications so can run apps in both worlds
 
Everyone has to remember that MS is still one of the biggest maker is software developing ... plenty of software made by them.

Once app is written for android , iOS or or windows, it should not be too difficult to ' import' it to other platforms. Especially if they are written in .net or any of C languages.

They have advantage in their RT platform because of that.
I do believe that there will be a lot of software coming out for this platform soon.
 
Metro doesn't support .net, silverlight which have been Microsoft's favourite tools for the last few years.
 
Dale_d3100 said:
The screens are the same ;)

RT only has that screen and all apps run in that world

Pro has the desktop to run the old applications so can run apps in both worlds
Click to expand...

That's not entirely true. Windows RT has access to the desktop with all the standard built in Windows applications - things like IE10, Paint, Notepad, Calculator, etc - as well as Office 2013 Home and Student (or whatever edition they're shipping with it).

But you can't develop or install additional desktop mode applications for it, only Metro ones.
 
Thorburn said:
That's not entirely true. Windows RT has access to the desktop with all the standard built in Windows applications - things like IE10, Paint, Notepad, Calculator, etc - as well as Office 2013 Home and Student (or whatever edition they're shipping with it).
Click to expand...

And Office H&S licensing means you're not allowed to use it for business use. And you can't install any other version of Office. And there's no third-party options.
 
bastic said:
I do believe that there will be a lot of software coming out for this platform soon.
Click to expand...

And why should companies like Adobe bother trying to totally re-write their software for the few dozen people using the Restricted Technology Surface?

I'm with Woody Leonhard (and he should know, he's been a Windows and Office guru for a long time) when he says that a few companies will try - and fail.

There's a feedback loop between hardware and software. Adobe didn't produce a semi-usable version of PS for iOS until there were over 50 million potential customers. And it's the same with any of the big companies - you don't waste money on development for a tiny market. And a lot of potential hardware purchasers decide not to buy hardware that has poor software available.

That's why the Blackberry Thing failed - no decent software. And the HP OtherThing.

Now the Surface Pro will probably be different. Adobe will be developing their range to work on Win8, and I don't believe that they'd leave out the touchy Metro bits unless they're really difficult to implement. But I still believe that Win8 versions of LR and PS will be a lot easier to use on a desktop PC (or a high-powered laptop) with a decent processor and a proper keyboard (ever noticed how so many PS and LR experts do a lot of their work with keyboard shortcuts).
 
hollis_f said:
And why should companies like Adobe bother trying to totally re-write their software for the few dozen people using the Restricted Technology Surface?
Click to expand...

I stopped reading after this.. You do realise surface RT completely sold out on release don't you?

While it's a tiny part of the market (which is normal after only a day) it's hardly "a few dozen people."

Give it some time before writing it off.

:-/
 
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H2O said:
I stopped reading after this.. You do realise surface RT completely sold out on release don't you?
Click to expand...

You do realise that Microsoft refused to answer any question asking them to clarify exactly how many units that represented, don't you? It could be an Apple-worthy 5 million, it could be a RIM-worthy 26. I suspect that their reluctance to answer that question is a good indication as to which of those figures is the closest.
 
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hollis_f said:
You do realise that Microsoft refused to answer any question asking them to clarify exactly how many units that represented, don't you? It could be an Apple-worthy 5 million, it could be a RIM-worthy 26. I suspect that their reluctance to answer that question is a good indication as to which of those figures is the closest.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a company the size of Microsoft promoting a major new product would really only make 26 units to sell at launch.

As you've no idea just how many have sold or how well received they will be why are you being so unfairly negative?
 
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hollis_f said:
Here's what Woody Leonhard says about Windows RT app development -



Source: Windows Secrets Newsletter.

If you're expecting to see PS-RT or LR-RT anytime soon (well, anytime) then you're going to be highly disappointed.
Click to expand...

from a website that seems to be set up to dislike MS... I'm pretty sure it is actually very simple to write apps that work on both (in the metro side of things anyway). Preexisting x86 programs will obviously be harder to do, although the idea of a full fat Photoshop running on ARM makes me shiver!:lol:

If you need Photoshop, that's what the Surface pro is for (or any of the other tablets running intel chips).
 
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H2O said:
As you've no idea just how many have sold or how well received they will be why are you being so unfairly negative?
Click to expand...

Like I said, because of the way that they refused to supply even rough estimates of the number of units they'd sold. If the number had been large then they wouldn't have missed out on the PR points they'd earn by showing how popular it was.
 
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