Windows 7 will not have IE

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whiteflyer

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To comply with the European anti-competitive lawsuit Microsoft will not be shipping windows 7 with a web browser.

Now I see a problem here, yes I don't want to use IE I want firefox, but I have to download firefox from the internet, but I don't have a browser to get on the internet in the first place.



There's a hole in my bucket dear lisa..........
 
Are you sure? I know they have removed it as a core component (I think), but it will still be available with windows 7, also even if they were forced to produce a product without it they would do the same thing they did with xp and media player, produce an "N" version, at the same price as the normal version, just without IE. :lol:
 
whiteflyer said:
To comply with the European anti-competitive lawsuit Microsoft will not be shipping windows 7 with a web browser.

Now I see a problem here, yes I don't want to use IE I want firefox, but I have to download firefox from the internet, but I don't have a browser to get on the internet in the first place.



There's a hole in my bucket dear lisa..........
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Indeed - which just shows how riduculous the while thing is!

Microsoft will
make it easy for PC makers and users to get at and install the web browsing program
Click to expand...
and I guess manufacturers may do the same with other browsers too so I don't imagine your bucket will be leaky for long
 
Amp34 said:
Are you sure? I know they have removed it as a core component (I think), but it will still be available with windows 7, also even if they were forced to produce a product without it they would do the same thing they did with xp and media player, produce an "N" version, at the same price as the normal version, just without IE. :lol:
Click to expand...

Announced today:

Microsoft has announced that it will ship a special version of Vista's successor in Europe, titled Windows 7 E, without Internet Explorer 8. The browser-less version, a reaction to an antitrust investigation by the EU into whether Microsoft is abusing its dominant position with Windows and Internet Explorer, will be distributed in all member nations.
...
This means that none of the versions of Windows 7 sold in Europe will include a Microsoft's browser. ... OEMs will have the option to add the browser back in, ship another browser, or ship multiple browsers. ... Consumers who purchase retail copies will not have a browser that they can use to download a browser. Therefore, Microsoft will offer IE8 via CD, FTP, and retail channels
Click to expand...

:bonk:
 
Ahh, ok

:thumbsdown::bang:

And the funny thing is, unless firefox pay the OEM's loads of money they will almost certainly include IE8 as standard...
 
Amp34 said:
Ahh, ok

:thumbsdown::bang:

And the funny thing is, unless firefox pay the OEM's loads of money they will almost certainly include IE8 as standard...
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Absolutely. Or may be with the Google stuff you generally see installed by oems, perhaps Chrome will be everywhere. Or maybe Apple would like to have a play and get Safari supplied - that would be irony.

:shrug:
 
but but but but but but

IE8 sucks balls
 
The version of windows 7 that ends up on 99.99% of pcs will include ie. Bit of a non-story tbh! :)
 
whiteflyer said:
To comply with the European anti-competitive lawsuit Microsoft will not be shipping windows 7 with a web browser.

Now I see a problem here, yes I don't want to use IE I want firefox, but I have to download firefox from the internet, but I don't have a browser to get on the internet in the first place.



There's a hole in my bucket dear lisa..........
Click to expand...

I wonder if you can go into my computer and still type a web address in the address bar?
 
Intel and Microsoft really ought to point fingers at Apple. For anti-competitive practices they are far worse.
 
I don't know the percentage but the overwhelming volume of OS sold is via new machines so I suspect Dell Acer HP etc, will include I.E as part of the bundle. so for the vast majority of users this won't be a problem. However for upgraders then getting a copy of any browser may be a problem. Maybe you can download a version of IE8 from the Microsoft site via your XP or Vista browser, burn to CD and then when you've ungraded, load it in.

I can see loads of computer mags having IE8 on the cover disk. Maybe Microsoft will ship it as an additional CD in the box.

Anyway not a problem for me..... I'm on a Mac :)
 
this is stupid

they should ship it complete, and then when you first run the 'interweb' it should post to a hosted screen where you can select your web browser...this 3rd party screen can be hosted by MS and independently monitored by the regulatory body

6 nice big icons with 25 words of text each, MS FF, opera, chrome, safari and whomever else wants in and has a market share.
then everyone is happy
 
Its a response to the EU regulators, who quite frankly are taking the p!$$, they're also the reason why MS can't offer cheap upgrades from XP or Vista to Win7 as it will put OEM vendor revenue at risk (Apple avoid all this by not having OEMs btw, hence Snow Leopard upgrade being priced at $29), and why MS has terrible desktop licenses for virtualisation and can't currently offer named user licensing for apps (which can save a fortune if you run multiple machines)

Anyhow,

From the leaked memo, which has been confirmed by Microsoft,

"To ensure that Microsoft is in compliance with European law, Microsoft will be releasing a separate version of Windows 7 for distribution in Europe that will not include Windows Internet Explorer," the software maker said in the memo. "Microsoft will offer IE8 separately and free of charge and will make it easy and convenient for PC manufacturers to preinstall IE 8 on Windows 7 machines in Europe if they so choose. PC manufacturers may choose to install an alternative browser instead of IE 8, and has always been the case, they may install multiple browsers if they wish."

So,

OEM installers can add it in the build

Home users that decide to get it can use Windows Update, no browser required, integrated into the OS.

It's a bit of a non story to be honest, unless you look at the EU regulators abuing their position (driven mainly from France & Germany that use a lot of open source infrastructure). The cost of MS doing business in the EU is so great due to the ridiculous fines, that were it not for the global impact on their business, they'd be better off withdrawing from selling software into the EU completely.
 
Microsoft brought out Windows XP N a few years back, similar hoo-ha over Windows Media Player - Microsoft sold a massive 1,787 copies to retailers (no figures for actual end-user sales though)

This is just the same debacle - slightly different bit of software!
 
You know what MS will do, they'll supple every retailer with IE CD's and put them on the shelves/counter for you to pick up. Or send it to all the manufacturer so that it's up to them to bundle it "free" with your PC from Dell or a retailed box of Windows 7.
 
perhaps uninstalling the damm thing will now be easier
 
JasonRS said:
Home users that decide to get it can use Windows Update, no browser required, integrated into the OS.

It's a bit of a non story to be honest, unless you look at the EU regulators abuing their position (driven mainly from France & Germany that use a lot of open source infrastructure). The cost of MS doing business in the EU is so great due to the ridiculous fines, that were it not for the global impact on their business, they'd be better off withdrawing from selling software into the EU completely.
Click to expand...

Wait, so the first time you boot up windows, it'll ask you to update windows, in which it'll download IE in the update. :lol:
 
I suspect it will give you the option, though wether it will leave you alone if you refuse and how that option will be worded...
 
My Computer > View > Toolbars > Address bar > www.google.co.uk

that works dunnit? im sure i did that to get firefox installed after i stripped IE from my windose install
 
rgrebby said:
heh and watch the normal computer user figure out how to download from an ftp
Click to expand...

To be fair, it's not exactly rocket science!!

PC World and the likes will probably install it for you for a price, a bit like when they try and flog you MS Office and Norton 'You'll Never Completely Delete It' Suite!!
 
Raymond Lin said:
Wait, so the first time you boot up windows, it'll ask you to update windows, in which it'll download IE in the update. :lol:
Click to expand...

Apparently not.

I had a chat with a few guys at MS this week, including our Alliance manager ( I work for a large software company, and we had an event in Edinburgh this weekthey attended) regarding this. Apparently the decision will be down to the OEM builder as to what goes on. If you buy retail and upgrade, it will remove IE (yes remove), if it's a clean install, no browser available, you'll need to obtain the installer and do it yourself.

Yay for the interfering EU.

BTW, if you're interested, Opera was the company that instigated the complaint leading to this ridiculous situation.
 
And quite rightly too, if it wasn't for companies like Opera standing up to M$; Windows would cost you 5 times as much, be even more bloated than it is and wouldn't let you use any software other than M$ offerings. It's bad enough that M$ deviate from web standards to suit themselves with IE as it is, the only reason it's on my pc is for those lazy coder websites that just won't work without it.
 
It's more like Opera are the only company to charge for their browser, hold a tiny minority of the user base, and want to sell more code.

Firefox, Safari, Chrome etc are all free at point of installation, and nothing stops you using those. Firefox & Chrome are supported by revenue generated from search providers (so they're not free, you just pay with your search data) Safari is free to increase compatibility for Apple OS X websites, and maybe get a few OS switchers.

Are you also aware that you can't buy an "upgrade" to Vista from XP, or Win 7 from Vista because of EU / DoJ rulings instigated by now non existent OS vendors, as it supposedly restricts their potential sales, or may impact OEM sales of new PC's / Laptops. Apple can do this as they don't have OEM's, and hold a tiny proportion of the desktop market.

MS would make more money from being able to sell a Win 7 home upgrade pack for £100, than having you buy a new PC with the new OS installed, but they're not allowed to because it could take revenue from OEM system builders, and so they can only sell full versions.

If it weren't for the EU/DoJ oversight commissions, Windows could be a lot cheaper. Server OS's aren't covered by the DoJ oversight, and this is why they're licensed far more flexibly.
 
JasonRS said:
It's more like Opera are the only company to charge for their browser, hold a tiny minority of the user base, and want to sell more code.

Firefox, Safari, Chrome etc are all free at point of installation, and nothing stops you using those. Firefox & Chrome are supported by revenue generated from search providers (so they're not free, you just pay with your search data) Safari is free to increase compatibility for Apple OS X websites, and maybe get a few OS switchers.
Click to expand...

The desktop version has been available as freeware for a few years now (without that annoying ad strip). Perhaps you mean something else by "free at point of installation"?
Wikipedia (I know, possibly not an authoritative source) article on Opera states that they have a deal with Google, too.

JasonRS said:
Are you also aware that you can't buy an "upgrade" to Vista from XP, or Win 7 from Vista because of EU / DoJ rulings instigated by now non existent OS vendors, as it supposedly restricts their potential sales, or may impact OEM sales of new PC's / Laptops. Apple can do this as they don't have OEM's, and hold a tiny proportion of the desktop market.

MS would make more money from being able to sell a Win 7 home upgrade pack for £100, than having you buy a new PC with the new OS installed, but they're not allowed to because it could take revenue from OEM system builders, and so they can only sell full versions.
Click to expand...

Where do you have this information from? (honest question, I'd like to read up more on that)


JasonRS said:
If it weren't for the EU/DoJ oversight commissions, Windows could be a lot cheaper. Server OS's aren't covered by the DoJ oversight, and this is why they're licensed far more flexibly.
Click to expand...

Probably not - what reason would they have to lower the price from what it is now?

Steep said:
And quite rightly too, if it wasn't for companies like Opera standing up to M$; Windows would cost you 5 times as much, be even more bloated than it is and wouldn't let you use any software other than M$ offerings. It's bad enough that M$ deviate from web standards to suit themselves with IE as it is, the only reason it's on my pc is for those lazy coder websites that just won't work without it.
Click to expand...

What does Opera have with the OS market? They're just a browser maker, really, despite having some services now.
They might have complained, but that's just about all they can do.
 
Steep said:
And quite rightly too, if it wasn't for companies like Opera standing up to M$; Windows would cost you 5 times as much, be even more bloated than it is and wouldn't let you use any software other than M$ offerings. It's bad enough that M$ deviate from web standards to suit themselves with IE as it is, the only reason it's on my pc is for those lazy coder websites that just won't work without it.
Click to expand...

If there's one thing worse than camera fanboyism, is software fanboyism, with it's 'clever' character substitution in-jokes. Especially when used in conjunction with completely ridiculous arguments.

OEMs have been free to package whatever browsers they want with their systems for years.....set them as default if they like.

Sensible solution is just to have a run-once installer when you first connect to the internet....please select your web-browser....much the same as you select a search provider these days.
 
mid_gen said:
If there's one thing worse than camera fanboyism, is software fanboyism, with it's 'clever' character substitution in-jokes. Especially when used in conjunction with completely ridiculous arguments.
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If you can post a rational argument contradicting the points I made then please do, I'd prefer if you didn't stoop to insults though.

It's been pointed out above that M$ have a solution to hand already, an option to install via windows update.
 
Steep said:
If you can post a rational argument contradicting the points I made then please do, I'd prefer if you didn't stoop to insults though.

It's been pointed out above that M$ have a solution to hand already, an option to install via windows update.
Click to expand...

If you'd actually read my reply to the comment about my own earlier statement regarding the delivery of IE via WU, you'll see that this isn't going to be an option.

IE will not be delivered by Windows Update

If you update from Windows XP or Vista to Windows 7 it will remove whatever IE you already have.

All of this because of an interfering EU.
 
Slapo said:
What does Opera have with the OS market? They're just a browser maker, really, despite having some services now.
They might have complained, but that's just about all they can do.
Click to expand...

Companies like Opera (making a stand) I said.
 
Early versions of windows did not have a browser at all ( they did not even have one to offer).
It was no problem, as there was plenty of choice from third parties.
When they introduced IE for free, they killed off the competition till the likes of firefox came along.
 
JasonRS said:
Apparently not.

I had a chat with a few guys at MS this week, including our Alliance manager ( I work for a large software company, and we had an event in Edinburgh this weekthey attended) regarding this. Apparently the decision will be down to the OEM builder as to what goes on. If you buy retail and upgrade, it will remove IE (yes remove), if it's a clean install, no browser available, you'll need to obtain the installer and do it yourself.
Click to expand...

Well, it still doesn't exclude the possibility of offering it as an optional update, does it?
 
It seems that Opera still arent happy with this and want things to go further.

Opera Chief Technology Officer Håkon Wium Lie added in a statement, "We note with intereste that Microsoft now seems capable of separating IE from Windows. However, we do not believe that Microsoft’s move will restore competition for desktop browsers. Most users get their operating systems from the OEM channel and Microsoft will recommend that OEMs pre-install IE8. As such, users are unlikely to be given a genuine choice of browsers."
Click to expand...

The browse usage stats from w3schools makes some interesting reading .

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

They show that the largest share atm is firefox with nearly 50% of browser usage. Firefox has been around for less time than opera but they have gone out there and got people to take notice of them and are now in the position they are. Even Chrome which is still in beta has a larger share of the market than opera.
 
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