Win 7 - dual monitor calibration?

gnirtS

gnirtS

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Im running win7 home premium/64 bit. Primary monitor 24" dell, secondary a 17" viewsonic.

Im using Huey to generate an ICC profile but the DispCAL software to create it.

This part isn't a problem, each monitor in turn has a perfectly acceptable profile generated which works nicely.

The problem i have is getting windows to use 1 profile on the primary and the other on the extended desktop secondary.

Ultimately it seems to be applying the same profile to both screens regardless of settings.

In the Colour Management part of control panel ive set the correct profile for primary and the secondary display (appears as Generic PnP monitor) its own on both the use and system wide settings but these appear to do absolutely nothing - the secondary monitor doesn't adopt its profile.

Any ideas how to get windows to set the profile on the 2nd screen?
 
gnirtS said:
Im running win7 home premium/64 bit. Primary monitor 24" dell, secondary a 17" viewsonic.

Im using Huey to generate an ICC profile but the DispCAL software to create it.

This part isn't a problem, each monitor in turn has a perfectly acceptable profile generated which works nicely.

The problem i have is getting windows to use 1 profile on the primary and the other on the extended desktop secondary.

Ultimately it seems to be applying the same profile to both screens regardless of settings.

In the Colour Management part of control panel ive set the correct profile for primary and the secondary display (appears as Generic PnP monitor) its own on both the use and system wide settings but these appear to do absolutely nothing - the secondary monitor doesn't adopt its profile.

Any ideas how to get windows to set the profile on the 2nd screen?
Click to expand...

Profiling 2 monitors in Windows is a PITA!
What's likely happening is that aftger the Huey profile loads, windows then uses it's own profiles. I need to run the config file for my Colormunki once the PC has started and that resolves the problem
 
As far as i can tell i've gone via the windows colour management tab and set my huey generated profiles (standard files) as the system defaults for the relevant devices.
At least in the tabs display one ONLY shows my dell generated and display 2 ONLY shows the viewsonic generated profile. Its still not showing though.

Im also have a nightmare with my nvidia optimus laptop ignoring/resetting profiles but thats for a whole new thread :)
 
neil_g said:
are you sure your graphics chip can handle multiple profiles in that case?
Click to expand...

I have absolutely no idea. I'd guess so, im using the latest nvidia drivers and that should be a driver thing as opposed to hardware.

When calibrating with DispCAL it correctly identifies each display, dispalays the calibration square on the correct screen and so on so im sure its windows related as 3rd party software seems to have no issue.
 
Try loading the profiles with xcalib as I suggested....
 
arad85 said:
Try loading the profiles with xcalib as I suggested....
Click to expand...

d:\Temp>xcalib.exe -s 2 viewsonic.icm
Warning - Unable to calibrate display

And nothing happens. Also the same warning trying to load -s 0 -s 1.

Even leaving out the -s totally i get the same warning.
 
You need an ICC profile....
 
What is the graphics card?
 
EOS_JD said:
You mean icm. Icc is a printer profile. icm a monitor profile
Click to expand...
Nope. ICC = International Color Consortium. And the ICC profile is something that maps between inputs and outputs. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICC_profile

In fact, it's only a naming convention (after a little more investigation). As gnirtS says, they are interchangeable.

I'll upload my files and PM gnirtS a link to them.
 
What good would your ICC profiles do for the OP?
 
Just did a little research and they do the same thing :D
 
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Pookeyhead said:
What good would your ICC profiles do for the OP?
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Think a little laterally ;) They should help prove whether it was his ICC profiles or the graphics card that are causing a problem.
 
I reckon it's a problem with the Huey. I've just Googled it and there's so much stuff about people having similar problems I suspect that's where the problem lies.
 
Pookeyhead said:
I reckon it's a problem with the Huey. I've just Googled it and there's so much stuff about people having similar problems I suspect that's where the problem lies.
Click to expand...

Its certainly not a problem with Huey - im not using the software. Its generated a perfectly valid ICM file (as proven by applying it to each monitor on its own).

The problem lies with windows seemingly refuse to use a different profile for each connected display.
 
In my ignorance surely having two identical monitors would help solve the problem??? The monitors may be so far apart in their build type (spec) that matching them display wise would be a nightmare. Or maybe I am missing the point.

I added a PNY GeForce GTX 650 XLR8 NVIDIA Graphics Card - 1GB for just over £90 to my computer build . If thats any help
 
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realspeed said:
In my ignorance surely having two identical monitors would help solve the problem??? The monitors may be so far apart in their build type (spec) that matching them display wise would be a nightmare. Or maybe I am missing the point.
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Your missing the point. I have two, identical, factory calibrated Dell monitors. They both needed a slight tweak with a hardware calibrator to match them.

As said a number of times, the graphics card is immaterial if the monitors are digital.
 
As noted above I need to run a file called "CalibrationLoader.exe" after windows starts up. This applies the calibration profiles to my two monitors and over rides the Windows defaults (which don't seem to work right).
 
arad85 said:
Your missing the point. I have two, identical, factory calibrated Dell monitors. They both needed a slight tweak with a hardware calibrator to match them.

As said a number of times, the graphics card is immaterial if the monitors are digital.
Click to expand...


No.. not true. You are NOT hardware calibrating them at all... you are software calibrating them. No Dell screen has the ability to hardware calibrate (directly programming the monitors Look Up Table). You are actually profiling your video card's output. The video cards are NOT immaterial at all... they are very relevant, as unless you have a Eizo ColorEdge or NEC reference series screen you are actually calibrating the video card, NOT the monitor. Hardware calibration doesn't mean you are using calibrator.. it means you are directly reprogramming the monitor's LUT at hardware level. Very few screens allow you to do that.. Dell don't make any that allow that.


Also... when calibrating them, you want them in custom colour mode, not the factory preset modes.

I think this may well be a problem with the GPU. Windows 7 has no problems with dual ICC profiles, that I can assure you, and if you have manually ensured that each screen has it's own profile in the color Management panel in Win 7 then it's clearly an issue with the GPU mapping the profile to each DVI output.

What graphics card is it?

You're not using HDMI are you?

You shouldn't need calibrationloader.exe if the default ICM profile is set correctly in the colour management section of Win7... it wouldn't hurt though... so give it a try. If that doesn't solve it, then the GPU is simply not outputting the two profiles to each of it's outputs.

If you are using HDMI, stop it.. as quite a few video cards will have problems mapping the ICM profile to a HDMI output. Use both DVI outputs.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
No.. not true. You are NOT hardware calibrating them at all...
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<sigh>calibrating with a hardware calibrator. Is that better? If you had seen the previous discussions with Realspeed where he claims not to need to calibraate his monitor because he bought an "expensive" video card, you'd know why I said that.... ;)

Pookeyhead said:
you are software calibrating them. No Dell screen has the ability to hardware calibrate (directly programming the monitors Look Up Table). You are actually profiling your video card's output. The video cards are NOT immaterial at all... they are very relevant, as unless you have a Eizo ColorEdge or NEC reference series screen you are actually calibrating the video card, NOT the monitor.
Click to expand...
If you have a digital output, whether the CLUT is in the graphics card or it is in the monitor is pretty immaterial, you are calibrating the output system (which is effectively the monitor as all you are doing is mapping input stimulii to output responses).
The graphics card in this case is immaterial (assuming it has a basic set of LUTs).

Pookeyhead said:
Also... when calibrating them, you want them in custom colour mode, not the factory preset modes.
Click to expand...
That depends. The Dells calibrate sRGB better in the sRGB mode than the wide gamut mode simply because sRGB isn't wide gamut....


Pookeyhead said:
What graphics card is it?
Click to expand...
I've asked that before and not got a response.
 
arad85 said:
<sigh>calibrating with a hardware calibrator. Is that better? If you had seen the previous discussions with Realspeed where he claims not to need to calibraate his monitor because he bought an "expensive" video card, you'd know why I said that.... ;)
Click to expand...

I wasn't being pedantic.. I was just saying that the video card is the device you are actually profiling; the device that is being adjusted, as the Dell can not be hardware profiled.

arad85 said:
If you have a digital output, whether the CLUT is in the graphics card or it is in the monitor is pretty immaterial, you are calibrating the output system (which is effectively the monitor as all you are doing is mapping input stimulii to output responses).
The graphics card in this case is immaterial (assuming it has a basic set of LUTs).
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, that's not true. Digital or not, unless you are calibrating with hardware/software than can communicate with, and program the monitor's LUT you are actually calibrating the GPU's LUT. The monitor (in this case) will just dumbly display the signal you provide it with. All gamut and RGB adjustments will be happening at the GPU level. You are NOT calibrating the monitor... you are calibrating the GPU output to provide a more accurate signal for that monitor. No adjustments are being made at the monitor level. I see the point you are making... but in this instance.. my point is that the ICC profile is being loaded into the GPU, not the monitor. As win7 can easily handle multiple screen and multiple profiles, the issue is clearly that the GPU is not doing so as it should.

[edit]

Incidentally, there are great differences in profiling the GPU output and the hardware calibration of the screens LUT (should it be allowed). Almost all GPU outputs (with the exception of Quadra cards over Display Port) are 8 bit. Mess with the gamut of a 8bit output and you'll introduce banding into the image, as you have no headroom for adjustment. Most top end screens have 10, 12 or even 14 bit LUTs so translation of the 8bit (0-255) adjustments can be remapped in a larger space to avoid banding.

arad85 said:
That depends. The Dells calibrate sRGB better in the sRGB mode than the wide gamut mode simply because sRGB isn't wide gamut....
Click to expand...

This is true.. but I assumed that anyone who buys a wide gamut screen will be using it in wide gamut mode for photo editing, otherwise what's the point? In wide gamut mode, if your workflow is fully colour managed, then it makes no difference - a sRGB image will be displayed with the correct colour gamut regardless. You only really need to use sRGB mode on a wide gamut screen if you are displaying a non colour managed signal... watching TV, web browsing, or playing games etc. Correctly set up, using any colour managed workflow (Lightroom, Photoshop etc) then using a wide gamut screen in native wide gamut mode will still correctly honour the sRGB profile and display correctly. That's the whole point of a colour managed workflow :)

What makes you think they calibrate better in sRGB "Because it's not wide gamut"? Wide gamut isn't any more difficult to profile if your colorimeter supports wide gamut.


arad85 said:
I've asked that before and not got a response.
Click to expand...

Well... can't help then, as I strongly suspect that's where the problem lies.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
I'm sorry, that's not true. Digital or not, unless you are calibrating with hardware/software than can communicate with, and program the monitor's LUT you are actually calibrating the GPU's LUT. The monitor (in this case) will just dumbly display the signal you provide it with. All gamut and RGB adjustments will be happening at the GPU level. You are NOT calibrating the monitor... you are calibrating the GPU output to provide a more accurate signal for that monitor. No adjustments are being made at the monitor level.
Click to expand...
Other than the pedantic point of which LUT is being profiled, the effect is the same. The original signal gets fed through a LUT before it is displayed. Given the system is digital until it gets to the display electronics (i.e. after either LUT) it doesn't matter where that gets done.

Pookeyhead said:
This is true.. but I assumed that anyone who buys a wide gamut screen will be using it in wide gamut mode for photo editing, otherwise what's the point?
Click to expand...
Nope. sRGB here. ALL my output devices are in sRGB (even my printer). What's the point? To have a properly colour managed sRGB workflow....

Pookeyhead said:
In wide gamut mode, if your workflow is fully colour managed, then it makes no difference - a sRGB image will be displayed with the correct colour gamut regardless. You only really need to use sRGB mode on a wide gamut screen if you are displaying a non colour managed signal...
Click to expand...
That depends. A wide gamut monitor displaying sRGB may well be using less bits to display the sRGB colour space than of you leave it in sRGB mode.... You are also leaving less to chance. Also, all calibrators will give you a fairly decent sRGB, you may well be pushing the boundaries with the cheaper calibrators for accurate wider gamut....
 
arad85 said:
Other than the pedantic point of which LUT is being profiled, the effect is the same. The original signal gets fed through a LUT before it is displayed. Given the system is digital until it gets to the display electronics (i.e. after either LUT) it doesn't matter where that gets done.
Click to expand...


I know... but as we're trying to help a guy who's profiling screens that can't be hardware profiled.... the issue is clearly at teh GPU end of the chain... THAT'S my point, and my only reason for making the distinction in the first place, as most people actually think they are calibrating their monitor... when in reality they are programming the GPU's LUT. :)

arad85 said:
Nope. sRGB here. ALL my output devices are in sRGB (even my printer). What's the point? To have a properly colour managed sRGB workflow....
Click to expand...

If you only have the intention of ever working in sRGB.. then fine, but a calibrated wide gamut screen in a colour managed workflow will display sRGB just as accurately as a sRGB screen will... it has the advantage however of going wider should you need it. It's up to you... all I'm saying is that don't make the assumption that because YOU only use sRGB that everyone else should. I for instance output to printers that have a wider gamut than sRGB, so what would be the point in me limiting my output to sRGB?


arad85 said:
You are also leaving less to chance. Also, all calibrators will give you a fairly decent sRGB, you may well be pushing the boundaries with the cheaper calibrators for accurate wider gamut....
Click to expand...

If you're using a Dell monitor, it's unlikely to have the finesse to make such distinctions visually. Great screens for the price, but even the U2410/2711 have only 8 bit panels. Depending on how far down the Dell food chain you go, you may even be working on a 6bit panel.


[edit]

Anyway... we're hijacking the thread here... start a new thread if you wanna chew the fat over this :)
 
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Youre both saying the same thing just differently lol
 
Kind of... although there are some real differences between hardware profiling a monitor capable of it, and profiling the video card.
 
I understand that.
 
:thumbs:
 
Pookeyhead said:
Kind of... although there are some real differences between hardware profiling a monitor capable of it, and profiling the video card.
Click to expand...
Well, assuming the same bit depth (and I know that isn't necessarily the case, but then h/w LUT monitors tend to be very expensive and have more bit depth) the only real difference is a calibrated monitor can be put on any graphics card with a flat LUT and produce the same colours. With the graphics card, you have to take the ICC profile with you.

Otherwise they are equivalent (which is what makes the conversation above one for interest only).
 
Just caught up on this thread so a few more details:-

Video card is an Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS and both screens are running via DVI.

Its certainly not a problem calibrating or profiling each screen as on their own the generated profile works perfectly.
Yes i know 2 identical monitors would make it easier but im working with what ive got- a main screen dell and an old viewsonic.
I cant justify buying new screens as im abroad 9+ months of the year working on a 17" laptop!

Ive sort of give up now. By messing with the RGB sliders on the 2nd screen ive "sort" of got it "similar". Yes i know this isnt much help but im not really using that screen for photo work.
I did want to run Lightroom with 2 screens but having tried it im actually quite disappointed in its implementation. I can only get loupe/grid and library view types on it. Ideally i wanted the develop panels on there leaving the mean screen free completely to display the photo to get a bigger working area. That's not possible though.

Has to be said i had no issues with XP or vista with this, im only getting it with win7s "new" implementation.
 
Richard, read my post. I had the exact same issue.
 
Yes but yours will have its own loader or similar file
 
Huey can only "do" one monitor so no option for loading two.
Windows 7 in theory has all the settings there for it - the colour management supports different profiles per display (ive set it) but it just doesnt seem to be having an effect. So either a bug in win7 (unlikely), my video drivers (possibly) or my card cant do it (also possible).
 
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