Will we stay or will we go?

In or out?

  • Stay in

  • Leave

  • And the requisite opt out option : I don't care I'm off down the pub

Results are only viewable after voting.
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Llamaman said:
Still not true, not matter how many times you rephrase it.
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If countries/businesses who are not members of the club have to pay extra taxes/duty to import to us, it's in effect a block on their trade due to costs.
 
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ST4 said:
And cannot British people work in warehouses and food prep plants. With 2mil unemployed...
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Of course they can, I've already told you why I think large employers choose to recruit non UK nationals. Are you having a Gildfish moment?
 
OldCarlos said:
If countries/businesses who are not members of the club have to pay extra taxes/duty to import to us, it's in effect a block on their trade due to costs.
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They don't 'pay extra' they're just not entitled to the easements.
There's no easement between the US and Japan in the same way there isn't one from the EU to Japan.

Coming out of the EU doesn't change our relationship with the rest of the world.
 
Phil V said:
Of course they can, I've already told you why I think large employers choose to recruit non UK nationals. Are you having a Gildfish moment?
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Ooooo....are they like supershiny goldfish? ;)
 
Phil V said:
Not round here :)

Our retail stores are all staffed by Brits. Lots of warehouses and food prep plants though are full of Eastern Europeans.
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as a regular shopper in 2-3 different branches of Aldi/Lidl (sometimes to get the "thursday specials" like the gardening/DIY or cycling kit you have to have a backup store to go to in case the local one has sold out) I can honestly say, that despite a good 30% of the punters having accents that are certainly not of Yorkshire (or 700 mile radius from there) every single member of staff I've heard speak has been VERY local indeed...
 
Why has this thread suddenly derailed to ex-pats?

The whole in/out of the EU does at this moment in the minds eye of most come down to immigration.
Within the current EU structure it is unsustainable period.

If we do not do something within the next 5 years the country will simply be swamped especially down south.
 
Stole this from the Telegraph.....


1. Since we joined the EEC in 1973, we have been in surplus with every continent in the world except Europe. Over those 27 years, we have run a trade deficit with the other member states that averages out at £30 million per day.

2. In 2010 our gross contribution to the EU budget was be £14 billion. To put this figure in context, all the reductions announced by George Osborne at the Conservative Party Conference would, collectively, save £7 billion a year across the whole of government spending.

3. On the European Commission’s own figures, the annual costs of EU regulation outweigh the advantages of the single market by €600 to €180 billion.

4. The Common Agricultural Policy costs every family £1200 a year in higher food bills.

5. Outside the Common Fisheries Policy, Britain could reassert control over its waters out to 200 miles or the median line, which would take in around 65 per cent of North Sea stocks.

6. Successive British governments have refused to say what proportion of domestic laws come from Brussels, but a thorough analysis by the German Federal Justice Ministry showed that 84 per cent of the legislation in that country came from the EU.

7. Outside the EU, Britain would be free to negotiate much more liberal trade agreements with third countries than is possible under the Common External Tariff.

8. The countries with the highest GDP per capita in Europe are Norway and Switzerland. Both export more, proportionately, to the EU, than Britain does.

9. Outside the EU, Britain could be a deregulated, competitive, offshore haven.

10. Oh, and we’d be a democracy again.
 
Phil V said:
They don't 'pay extra' they're just not entitled to the easements.
There's no easement between the US and Japan in the same way there isn't one from the EU to Japan.

Coming out of the EU doesn't change our relationship with the rest of the world.
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So why don't we leave & save £15 billion per year + we can decide to have a points system.
 
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and as is usual for the torygraph its mostly a mix of hyperbole and outright untruths , e,g we have a trade deficit with many other countries such as 22.1 billion with china , and deregulation will not be a good thing for anyone except those at the very top. And without the common agriculture policy food prices will rise rather than fall as farmers have to make money to live , and if you take away the subsidy they will have to charge more for food... and so forth

archangel said:
Stole this from the Telegraph.....


1. Since we joined the EEC in 1973, we have been in surplus with every continent in the world except Europe.

2. In 2010 our gross contribution to the EU budget was be £14 billion. To put this figure in context, all the reductions announced by George Osborne at the Conservative Party Conference would, collectively, save £7 billion a year across the whole of government spending.

3. On the European Commission’s own figures, the annual costs of EU regulation outweigh the advantages of the single market by €600 to €180 billion.

4. The Common Agricultural Policy costs every family £1200 a year in higher food bills.

5. Outside the Common Fisheries Policy, Britain could reassert control over its waters out to 200 miles or the median line, which would take in around 65 per cent of North Sea stocks.

6. Successive British governments have refused to say what proportion of domestic laws come from Brussels, but a thorough analysis by the German Federal Justice Ministry showed that 84 per cent of the legislation in that country came from the EU.

7. Outside the EU, Britain would be free to negotiate much more liberal trade agreements with third countries than is possible under the Common External Tariff.

8. The countries with the highest GDP per capita in Europe are Norway and Switzerland. Both export more, proportionately, to the EU, than Britain does.

9. Outside the EU, Britain could be a deregulated, competitive, offshore haven.

10. Oh, and we’d be a democracy again.
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ST4 said:
Again you miss the point entirely. The point is that all the unskilled labour we import can be done by British people. Working in Aldi isn't a specialised job that requires importing labour from abroad. Nor will the workers we import contribute much if anything to our economy because they don't earn much.
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I've missed nothing it's a case of you changing the point your trying to make with every post, we we discussing taxation and the income that generates for the country ex-pats are living in, but what you've failed to grasp is that the vast majority of those expats are not the rich people your trying to make out
 
OldCarlos said:
So why don't we leave & save £15 billion per year + we can decide to have a points system.
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Because maybe we won't save £15 billion a year?
I don't know whether we would, and with the greatest of respect I don't think you do either.
International economics is something Politicians obscure from us on purpose, I'm no expert, but at least I smart enough to know I don't know.
Anyone who claims to 'know' the truth automatically gets labelled an idiot or a genius in my mind, their next statement will give me more clues to decide.
 
MWHCVT said:
I've missed nothing it's a case of you changing the point your trying to make with every post, we we discussing taxation and the income that generates for the country ex-pats are living in, but what you've failed to grasp is that the vast majority of those expats are not the rich people your trying to make out
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They are also homing owning and wealtheir than average. Not the freeloading scroungers you are making out but honest tax paying people that will pay more tax than many people resident there. Do Polish workers at Lidl really fall into the same financial bracket?

As I have said, the moderate movement of skilled/educated and wealthy/well off/property owning people is not a problem
 
I will become an ex-pat in the future but that's for cost reasons, I cannot afford a good retirement in this country.

its simple economics, I could end up in 350k house in UK with the wife paying through the nose for council tax, energy, food, fuel, car etc.

OR I can move to a nicer country downsize and enjoy!
 
MWHCVT said:
I've missed nothing it's a case of you changing the point t
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as has been said many times before conducting a logical argument with certain posters is like trying to play chess with a pigeon
 
Mr Bump said:
I will become an ex-pat in the future but that's for cost reasons, I cannot afford a good retirement in this country.

its simple economics, I could end up in 350k house in UK with the wife paying through the nose for council tax, energy, food, fuel, car etc.

OR I can move to a nicer country downsize and enjoy!
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honest question - will you give up your uk citizenship and become a citizen of whatever country you move to ?
 
big soft moose said:
honest question - will you give up your uk citizenship and become a citizen of whatever country you move to ?
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Don't know at the time I will take legal advice but probably not.
However myself and my wife are the type that would integrate into another country and learn the lingo.
 
archangel said:
9. Outside the EU, Britain could be a deregulated, competitive, offshore haven.
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So, when the OECD is acting to close down tax havens and curtail BEPS, Britain would set itself as the world's financial pariah?
Sanctions from the US and EU would be disastrous.

archangel said:
10. Oh, and we’d be a democracy again.
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If you paid a bit more attention, you might not have missed those European elections - you know, the ones with Proportional Representation?
 
ST4 said:
They are also homing owning and wealtheir than average. Not the freeloading scroungers you are making out but honest tax paying people that will pay more tax than many people resident there. Do Polish workers at Lidl really fall into the same financial bracket?

As I have said, the moderate movement of skilled/educated and wealthy/well off/property owning people is not a problem
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These "freeloading scroungers" are the ones that are coming here to work! If they are working and paying some tax how is that being a "freeloading scrounger" I'll tell you what take some time to remove your head from out of the sewer then find some facts to back up what your trying to proclaim with your bigotry...let's try this average income of ex pat Brits by country...there will be some exceptions to the rules such as gulf states/Nigeria etc where Brits are going to work in high value trades...but on the most part they move to countries for change of lifestyle (weather) and to make a smaller income go much further
 
big soft moose said:
as has been said many times before conducting a logical argument with certain posters is like trying to play chess with a pigeon
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Very true, remind me when do the pigeon season open again? :P
 
MWHCVT said:
These "freeloading scroungers" are the ones that are coming here to work! If they are working and paying some tax how is that being a "freeloading scrounger" I'll tell you what take some time to remove your head from out of the sewer then find some facts to back up what your trying to proclaim with your bigotry...let's try this average income of ex pat Brits by country...there will be some exceptions to the rules such as gulf states/Nigeria etc where Brits are going to work in high value trades...but on the most part they move to countries for change of lifestyle (weather) and to make a smaller income go much further
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Re-read my post. What I said was that you are making out British people to be freeloading scroungers. The reality of Brits abroad is they are net contributers to the country to which the move to.

I know you like to use the bigot word to give more weight to your points, but it doesn't alter the facts. British retirees that go abroad tend to me quite to very well off and are not a burden on the state.

Quite a few EU nationals that come here either come to work, or come for benefits or a combination of both. They are not all high earning, well off, highly skilled and educated people by a long stretch.
 
ST4 said:
Re-read my post. What I said was that you are making out British people to be freeloading scroungers. The reality of Brits abroad is they are net contributers to the country to which the move to.

I know you like to use the bigot word to give more weight to your points, but it doesn't alter the facts. British retirees that go abroad tend to me quite to very well off and are not a burden on the state.

Quite a few EU nationals that come here either come to work, or come for benefits or a combination of both. They are not all high earning, well off, highly skilled and educated people by a long stretch.
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Proof of this?
 
ST4 said:
C'mon. Its quite obvious. If you move abroad to retire you buy a house and take your income with you, which is usually sizable you are well off and self supporting.

Is a £8ph lidl shop worker, fruit picker who gets knocked up really in that bracket.
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So you have not proof, therefore I shall consider what you spout to be ignorant lies and b******t, well until you want to come back with some actual data to back up what your professing!

Nice to see you couldn't help yourself with the last line to spout some more bile towards the poor
 
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MWHCVT said:
So you have not proof, therefore I shall consider what you spout to be ignorant lies and b******t, well until you want to come back with some actual data to back up what your professing!

Nice to see you couldn't help yourself with the last line to spout some more bile towards the poor
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So you know for a fact every OAP retiree to spain is some skint freeloader looking to freeload off the Spanish economy and every EU national that comes here is some skilled/educated/wealthy person we couldn't possibly do without.

Until you back this up with actual date I shall consider what you spout to be ignorant lies and b******t.

BTW. I think the last line is an accurate portrayal of what goes on. You might not like it but hey, I am trying to help you see the bigger picture.
 
ST4 said:
Re-read my post. What I said was that you are making out British people to be freeloading scroungers. The reality of Brits abroad is they are net contributers to the country to which the move to.
....
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And despite your guesswork so are immigrants here.

We ought to be surprised that you find it 'obvious' that the British abroad are net contributors, but just as obvious that immigrants here aren't.

The truth of course is 'obvious' for anyone capable of research. The fact that you're incapable of reading the research but instead rely on right wing conjecture, might make some people use the 'bigot' assumption.

Personally I veer between simple pity and hilarity. But I can't take it seriously as part of a reasoned debate.
ST4 said:
.Quite a few EU nationals that come here either come to work, or come for benefits or a combination of both. They are not all high earning, well off, highly skilled and educated people by a long stretch.
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Again; it doesn't really matter how many times we tell you they're not entitled to benefits when they land...

I don't know if you're happy to accept you're propagating a lie, or if you'll just accept your intellect is incapable of storing the data. But either way round, it's wrong and you've been told enough times.
 
Steve - why do you think that every brit who goes abroad is going to retire ? Many go to work , including many young people who go temporarily to work in low paid jobs whilst 'seeing the world'
 
Phil V said:
And despite your guesswork so are immigrants here.

We ought to be surprised that you find it 'obvious' that the British abroad are net contributors, but just as obvious that immigrants here aren't.

The truth of course is 'obvious' for anyone capable of research. The fact that you're incapable of reading the research but instead rely on right wing conjecture, might make some people use the 'bigot' assumption.

Personally I veer between simple pity and hilarity. But I can't take it seriously as part of a reasoned debate.

Again; it doesn't really matter how many times we tell you they're not entitled to benefits when they land...

I don't know if you're happy to accept you're propagating a lie, or if you'll just accept your intellect is incapable of storing the data. But either way round, it's wrong and you've been told enough times.
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What I am saying is some immigrants are net contributors but not all are. Many probably aren't and many imported labourers probably aren't strictly needed. A system that allows us to separate the wheat from the chaff that comes in from the EU can surely only be a good thing. Afterall, we apply that system for people coming from outwith the EU and if we left the EU we could do that with EU nationals. Why would that be a problem?

Why is that a hard thing to understand that having such a system can only be of benefit.

Benefits come after a period of time and if they get knocked up or father a sprog, they can get all sorts.
 
big soft moose said:
Steve - why do you think that every brit who goes abroad is going to retire ? Many go to work , including many young people who go temporarily to work in low paid jobs whilst 'seeing the world'
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I didn't say that, did I? But we were talking about Brits who were retired in Spain as being some sort of scourge on Spain. I argued the contrary in the same way a wealthy Frenchmen retiring to Scotland and buying a house and paying income tax in the UK would be a good thing.
 
My friends Daughter has lived in Spain for about 5 years as Teacher as she wanted to go off and do other things, she met a chap in Barcalona and is coming back in 6 months to live here and start a family so I dunno what that means?
 
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