Will we stay or will we go?

[archangel]

Momentum seems to be gathering for both sides campaigning towards the Euro referendum...should we stay or should we go?

Personally I think we need to go, regain our legal powers and allow decisions to be made at UK level for UK citizens. It will also save us fifty million a day in membership fees and not to forget the millions of pounds being sent off shore in the form of child benefit.

Discuss....some if you may want to go get the popcorn

*remember to play fair, no racism, name calling or personal attacks*

 

[rjbell]

I'm still on the fence.

The total lack of trust I have for our government would probably stop me voting yes to leave.

 

[dejongj]

My heart says go, my head says stay...

Definitely trust the UK Government a lot more than the Brussels/Strasbourg machine...

 

[Phil V]

My heart and head say stay, but I don't trust the EU govt any more than I trust the UK one.

It's a bit Sophie's Choice.

 

[Ricardodaforce]

I'm all for remaining a member of the EU.

 

[dejongj]

My heart says go, my head says stay...

Definitely trust the UK Government a lot more than the Brussels/Strasbourg machine...

Oh and for anyone not realising, go will have severe consequences for my family, that will likely be a huge change, so this is despite being personally affected by it.

 

[border_all]

I will probably vote stay thing is I won't believe any concessions we allegedly get from the EU so I suppose I sound like the SNP post the Scottish referendum

Long campaign so may go either way

 

[mex]

My heart and head say stay, but I don't trust the EU govt any more than I trust the UK one.

It's a bit Sophie's Choice.

Totally agree,although I probably distrust the British government more.

 

[border_all]

Oh and for anyone not realising, go will have severe consequences for my family, that will likely be a huge change, so this is despite being personally affected by it.

Not sure how you and your family would be affected but I really hope even should the vote go leave those here now will be allowed to stay

 

[andy182]

remain a member for me

 

[rjbell]

So many people are unsure. I bet the results will be very close, within 5% of each other.

 

[crofter]

Out.

 

[tijuana taxi]

If people like UKIP and their ilk want out that's reason enough for me to vote stay.

 

[Phil V]

If people like UKIP and their ilk want out that's reason enough for me to vote stay.

Look where that's got us in the Middle East though? Your enemy's enemy isn't always a suitable ally.

 

[Ricardodaforce]

 

[Deleted member 49549]

Momentum seems to be gathering for both sides campaigning towards the Euro referendum...should we stay or should we go?

Personally I think we need to go, regain our legal powers and allow decisions to be made at UK level for UK citizens. It will also save us fifty million a day in membership fees and not to forget the millions of pounds being sent off shore in the form of child benefit.

Discuss....some if you may want to go get the popcorn

*remember to play fair, no racism, name calling or personal attacks*

I don't think that £50M per day is a correct number. Link

 

[dejongj]

I don't think that £50M per day is a correct number. Link

Cool, so it is only £33M per day then.

 

[Nod]

Around 50p/head? Makes the royal family look like a real bargain!!!

 

[dejongj]

Around 50p/head? Makes the royal family look like a real bargain!!!

One per year and the other per day, in case some don't get the finer point.

 

[Deleted member 49549]

Cool, so it is only £33M per day then.

A rather significant £8 billion per year difference !

 

[Cobra]

The total lack of trust I have for our government would probably stop me voting yes to leave.

IIRC Wasn't that just a vote catcher ? didn't both parties say that they would put this to the vote if they got in?
And I don't trust any of them anyway.

It also appear that the "Multi nationals and big business" guys want us to stay in, other wise it'll hurt their, sorry our trade prospects,
and the smaller business guys, man in the street want us out. as it will put us on a stronger footing with trading with Europe.

The "big guys" didn't get where they are today by playing fair, or helping Mr average. so I know where my allegiance lies.

The only down side to "out" as I see it, is restricted travel, and back to the days of "duty free
200 fags and 2 litres of wine

 

[rjbell]

IIRC Wasn't that just a vote catcher ? didn't both parties say that they would put this to the vote if they got in?
And I don't trust any of them anyway.

It also appear that the "Multi nationals and big business" guys want us to stay in, other wise it'll hurt their, sorry our trade prospects,
and the smaller business guys, man in the street want us out. as it will put us on a stronger footing with trading with Europe.

The "big guys" didn't get where they are today by playing fair, or helping Mr average. so I know where my allegiance lies.

The only down side to "out" as I see it, is restricted travel, and back to the days of "duty free
200 fags and 2 litres of wine

I'm yes or no depending on which way the wind is blowing that day.

 

[Cobra]

I'm yes or no depending on which way the wind is blowing that day.

I honestly never heard anyone saying that they wanted in to the common market at the time, and what we have now,
certainly wasn't what we "signed up for" then anyway.

 

[dejongj]

A rather significant £8 billion per year difference !

Correct, £8Bn less, but still £12Bn per annum. The difference ofcourse being that one is gross and the other net. So loosing out of £8BN in benefits, is going to save us a further £12Bn...Now if we would want to choose how to use that £8Bn ourselves without interference of Europe that we can choose exactly how we would want to spend that, and are still £12Bn 'richer'. That is a lot of money.

IIRC Wasn't that just a vote catcher ? didn't both parties say that they would put this to the vote if they got in?
And I don't trust any of them anyway.

It also appear that the "Multi nationals and big business" guys want us to stay in, other wise it'll hurt their, sorry our trade prospects,
and the smaller business guys, man in the street want us out. as it will put us on a stronger footing with trading with Europe.

The "big guys" didn't get where they are today by playing fair, or helping Mr average. so I know where my allegiance lies.

The only down side to "out" as I see it, is restricted travel, and back to the days of "duty free
200 fags and 2 litres of wine

The fags and booze are possibly real negatives but hey with £12Bn extra each year we could choose to reduce duty or VAT etc...

Restricted travel isn't really an issue. We are already outside the Schengen zone, it doesn't stop non-EU passport holders either. Heck the worst people notice is that France might actually for once be serious at checking passports But once you are inside Schengen you'd be fine. And there is nothing stopping us joining in the various schemes like we have with the middle east, with the US and other locations where VISA's aren't necessarily required.

Nope the more I think about it, the less keen I am to become German

 

[LASTOLITE]

My heart and head say stay, but I don't trust the EU govt any more than I trust the UK one.

It's a bit Sophie's Choice.

Agree but would swop your choice for...Rock and Hard Place or even bending towards Hobsons Choice........Although maybe if pushed since we have been in the EU for so long - Lets get out and see what happens....?

Wonder what would happen to all the ex pats living in the EU who get their health care "Billed" to the UK NHS at the moment? Come to think of it Nobody likes us Brits anyway so why bother......

Part of me could not care any less what happens in this day and age its all smoke and mirrors anywho, I do know though that so called big business will not stop trading with the UK. There is a trend for selfishness in our society through and its been building for years, we are as a nation becomming more self obsessed and self absorbed so I would think its more than likely in a refferendum for the UK public to vote OUT ?

 

[Phil V]

Cool, so it is only £33M per day then.

But TBH, whilst it's easy to see what the EU 'costs' it's more difficult to quantify the monetary benefits of being a member, and that's made more difficult by the politics involved.

It should be obvious to everyone that our trade relationships will change if we leave the EU, but only a real genius or an idiot could put a £figure on it.

 

[LASTOLITE]

IIRC Wasn't that just a vote catcher ? didn't both parties say that they would put this to the vote if they got in?
And I don't trust any of them anyway.

It also appear that the "Multi nationals and big business" guys want us to stay in, other wise it'll hurt their, sorry our trade prospects,
and the smaller business guys, man in the street want us out. as it will put us on a stronger footing with trading with Europe.

The "big guys" didn't get where they are today by playing fair, or helping Mr average. so I know where my allegiance lies.

The only down side to "out" as I see it, is restricted travel, and back to the days of "duty free
200 fags and 2 litres of wine

Indeed then IF its Fags and Booze looks like we are going to stay in.......LOL

 

[dejongj]

Agree but would swop your choice for...Rock and Hard Place or even bending towards Hobsons Choice........Although maybe if pushed since we have been in the EU for so long - Lets get out and see what happens....?

Wonder what would happen to all the ex pats living in the EU who get their health care "Billed" to the UK NHS at the moment? Come to think of it Nobody likes us Brits anyway so why bother......

Part of me could not care any less what happens in this day and age its all smoke and mirrors anywho, I do know though that so called big business will not stop trading with the UK. There is a trend for selfishness in our society through and its been building for years, we are as a nation becomming more self obsessed and self absorbed so I would think its more than likely in a refferendum for the UK public to vote OUT ?

I think that when it comes to it, it will go the same way as the Scottish vote. The OUT camp will be very focal and appear to be ahead, but when it comes down to it people will chicken out and actually vote the safe, the known option. Brits aren't risk takers like that, the culture much prefers tweaking opposed to taking a radical different approach. Just my opinion naturally.

But TBH, whilst it's easy to see what the EU 'costs' it's more difficult to quantify the monetary benefits of being a member, and that's made more difficult by the politics involved.

It should be obvious to everyone that our trade relationships will change if we leave the EU, but only a real genius or an idiot could put a £figure on it.

Absolutely there will be other costs and other benefits. It would be good to have a true factual overview, but hey in a society where people don't even trust the current government, police, business you name it; which facts will be believed by anyone? Thus it comes down to whose propaganda machine is most effective, and in the end the people will choose for the devil they know....

 

[Cobra]

but hey with £12Bn extra each year we could choose to reduce duty or VAT etc...

Now you are just being silly

Wonder what would happen to all the ex pats living in the EU who get their health care "Billed" to the UK NHS at the moment?

A sudden influx to the UK? Oh wait we have that already

I guess some will move back, but also a lot moved out to Spain / France et al because of the weather and the "heath benefits" of the climate.
There could well be a lot of people that want to move back, but can't afford to, and if the health benifits, heating allowence and pensions are withdrawn for those, they *may* not be able to
afford to live out there either.

Come to think of it Nobody likes us Brits anyway so why bother......

Bring back the Empire, we'll soon sort em out, disrespectful bunch of Johnny foreigners

 

[LASTOLITE]

But TBH, whilst it's easy to see what the EU 'costs' it's more difficult to quantify the monetary benefits of being a member, and that's made more difficult by the politics involved.

It should be obvious to everyone that our trade relationships will change if we leave the EU, but only a real genius or an idiot could put a £figure on it.

Right Lets see WHO is the first to quantify what we will loose in monetary terms......Someone will claim a calculation I mean its a fundimentaly pot hole they will drive right into and as you say its impossible!

But its likely the only way to demonstrate to the UK voters what they will be loosing......not, maybe, possibly. The only way to gauge it is to leave and then do the figures....in 38 years...

 

[LASTOLITE]

Now you are just being silly

A sudden influx to the UK? Oh wait we have that already

I guess some will move back, but also a lot moved out to Spain / France et al because of the weather and the "heath benefits" of the climate.
There could well be a lot of people that want to move back, but can't afford to, and if the health benifits, heating allowence and pensions are withdrawn for those, they *may* not be able to
afford to live out there either.


Bring back the Empire, we'll soon sort em out, disrespectful bunch of Johnny foreigners

 

[Cobra]

Brits aren't risk takers like that, the culture much prefers tweaking opposed to taking a radical different approach.

Or doing as they are told. However much we moan about the way the French do things we ( the average Joe) could learn a lesson or two from them

and in the end the people will choose for the devil they know....

I think that.s been proved certainly in the last election.Even just reading the TP threads, its obvious there are a hell of a lot of people out there that are not happy

 

[border_all]

Problem with the in out is figures lie example government says we are increasing the NHS budget by cost of living most feel a warm glow! Trouble is they don't say that we are spending less per head as the number accessing it has increased same with travel investment and welfare

Had the government kept increasing the spend on services in line with population UKIP would never have gained traction it's the free for all borders that's killing the European dream as we have seen with the refugee crisis some member states reportedly closed the borders.

Again in favour of the no side must be the huge increase the EU will be taking from the refugee issue each will get an EU passport and travel here think Eurostar but bigger problems.

 

[big soft moose]

if we stay there will be trouble , if we go it will be double....

(end of the day the referendum is pointless the govt will do what they want regardless of the result )

 

[Cobra]

Again in favour of the no side must be the huge increase the EU will be taking from the refugee issue each will get an EU passport and travel here think Eurostar but bigger problems.

That can easily be sorted by either closing the tunnel, or making it South bound only
Sure, that leaves flights and sailing, but its more expensive and harder to "jump" I would imagine

end of the day the referendum is pointless the govt will do what they want regardless of the result

UK democratic politics at its finest

 

[dejongj]

Or doing as they are told. However much we moan about the way the French do things we ( the average Joe) could learn a lesson or two from them

I think that.s been proved certainly in the last election.Even just reading the TP threads, its obvious there are a hell of a lot of people out there that are not happy

They made their bed, twice, so better lay in it

But seriously it generally is the vocal minority that you hear most from.

 

[SFTPhotography]

I will vote to go unless Orban/Le Penne/Farage gets to run the whole show...

 

[dejongj]

Problem with the in out is figures lie example government says we are increasing the NHS budget by cost of living most feel a warm glow! Trouble is they don't say that we are spending less per head as the number accessing it has increased same with travel investment and welfare

Had the government kept increasing the spend on services in line with population UKIP would never have gained traction it's the free for all borders that's killing the European dream as we have seen with the refugee crisis some member states reportedly closed the borders.

Again in favour of the no side must be the huge increase the EU will be taking from the refugee issue each will get an EU passport and travel here think Eurostar but bigger problems.

In many cases, I think especially Germany, they won't be eligible to apply for a passport until after 8 years. Provides plenty of time for change.

 

[Cobra]

But seriously it generally is the vocal minority that you hear most from.

You have a point, but it I also wonder exactly how much apathy rulz OK?

I will vote to go unless Orban/Le Penne/Farage gets to run the whole show...

I don't really see that it matters who runs the campaign, once we are out or remain in, the law makers remain the government.

Although I do take the point ( I think you were making?) that it depends on exactly "how" its fought and on what grounds,
there are ways and ways to do that, of course

 

[big soft moose]

i think he meant gets to rule the whole eu - although the rise of the fourth reich doesnt really appeal to me