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Pedestrians. Unless the signage says otherwise.
and please use their services
Will This Make Cycling Safer?
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mj4456
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Who’s gonna enforce that? Many cyclists around here treat pedestrians as unfortunate obstacles, especially those with a hot food delivery bag on their bike.
Cagey75
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Different areas I guess, I'm not in a city more a small town, I don't see many other cyclists to begin with, that cuts down the chances of any jumping reds significantly. But I do see motorists do it all the time, there's 2 particular junctions in town where it occurs frequently, I hate those crossings as a pedestrian or cyclist - luckily leading up to one of them there is a cycle lane .... course pedestrians love to take that over .... I said in another thread, A-holes are A--holes no matter how they choose to travel.
JohnC6
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As you mention, roundabouts and you can quite often see glass on the road at a junction because the driver of the car behind the one on the junction sees the one infront start to move off so driver 2 looks right at the same time moving forward expecting the car infront to be gone only to hit the rear of it because that driver realised he/she wouldn't get out in time without risking a collision so stopped.
I stick to a rule for myself. When I'm second place at a junction I only look at the car infront and don't move forward to the line until it's clear of the line and onto the roundabout. It's served me well so far.
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What a baffling post.
I hope that even the most insistent cyclist would begin to think about giving up if they cant see cars.
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I think you will find that drivers are supposed to be able to read a number plate at 20 metres.
This means that you should be able to see a cyclist. If you cannot see a cyclist, get your eyes tested.
Why can cars be grey, or black? Surely they should be as bright as possible?
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I haven't read the new code but nothing would surprise me these days when the default position seems to be pro cycling and anti car. Cyclists on pavements and passing in any lane between traffic is often a bad idea. In an ideal world then yes to all this but sadly many cyclists are as ignorant and selfish and dangerous as they think car drivers are as we're all human. I'm also against the trend to make the car driver responsible no matter what but I can't see how cyclists causing accidents, damaging property or injuring people can be tackled as some will just leave the scene and those why stay will very likely not have any insurance. I'm sure many of us have stories about cyclists causing damage and fleeing, it's not happened to me but I do know people it has happened to.
I'm not anti cyclist, I'm just pro good behaviour on the roads and pro personal responsibility and respect for others..
I'm not anti cyclist, I'm just pro good behaviour on the roads and pro personal responsibility and respect for others..
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And if a cyclist can't see me I'm supposed to what to get out of their way? Do a vertical take off?
Get real and take some responsibility.
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You need to think broader. Widen your mind.
One of the issues on the roads today is narrow-minded parroting of memes.
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Just in case anyone wonders where the latest string of posts on this thread came from...
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Partly it is that behaviour (and attitudes - as seen in some posts here) are quite anti-cyclist. The HC changes will go some way to getting back from the "Get on the cycle track" shouts, the close passes, the impatience that kills.
Partly it is about the amount of damage a road user can do. A lorry does more than a van does more than a car does more than a horse does more than a cyclist does more than a pedestrian.
Partly it is about the vulnerability of each road user. Reverse the list above.
And finally - it is about public health and the environment. Driving is bad for the environment and bad for public health.
D
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Please read!Far worse is the new law stating you have to open the car door with the hand furthest from it !!!
I can't easily reach the door handle with my left hand and if I do I can't hold onto it to stop the door opening fuurther
Drivers could face £1,000 fine for opening doors the wrong way
The Highway Code rule change is designed to protect cyclistswww.liverpoolecho.co.uk
It doesn't say "you have to", it says "Where you are able to do so".
I would have thought that people would know by now that headlines are often inaccurate, so please read the detail to see what is real. You will not get fined for opening the door the wrong way. You will get fined for injuring somebody by opening your door.
JohnC6
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I've gone back through the thread and it's all about cyclists but the new legislation applies when vehicles pass people out horse riding. I was shocked to see these figures published in relation to the UK by the British Horse Society. BHA
In 2019-2020, 1,037 incidents were reported to the equine charity, an increase of 23% compared to the previous year.
As a result of those incidents, a total of 80 horses were killed, which is close to two horses each week. A further 136 horses were injured.
Tragically, one person lost their life in an incident while riding on the road, while a further 135 people were injured.
Of the reported incidents, 40% occurred because a vehicle passed by too quickly while 81% happened because cars passed too closely to horses. A shocking 43% of riders also reported road rage or abuse from other road users – a source of deep concern for all.
The latest figures feed into the shocking numbers of deaths and injuries suffered by equestrians over the past 10 years. Since 2010, 44 riders have been killed and 1,220 injured. Meanwhile, 395 horses have been killed and 1,080 injured.
In 2019 100 cyclists were killed. That's only 20 more than for horses but there are thousands of cyclists using the roads. That number of fatalities for cyclists has remained much the same for the previous 10 years but as the BHS pointed out the 80 horses killed was a 23% increase from the previous year . Regarding injuries, the numbers cannot be compared because of the difference in numbers of horse riders and cyclists using the roads. 135 for horse riders. 3827 adult cyclists suffered serious-injury and for children (up to 15 years of age) the figure was 462. The numbers for non-serious injuries..classed as slight injuries, were 10,557 and 1522 respectively. The term 'slight injuries' can still include nasty injuries.
The wording of rules regarding passing distances has been amended and now includes guidelines for overtaking pedestrians, cyclists and horses.
Leave a minimum distance of 1.5m at speeds under 30mph;
Leave a minimum distance of two metres at speeds over 30mph;
Always leave a distance of at least two metres if driving a large vehicle;
Pass horses and horse-drawn vehicles at speeds under 15mph and at a minimum distance of two metres;
Allow two metres of distance when passing a pedestrian who is walking in the road;
Wait behind the motorcyclist, cyclist, horse rider, horse drawn vehicle or pedestrian and not overtake if it is unsafe or not possible to meet these clearances.
In 2019-2020, 1,037 incidents were reported to the equine charity, an increase of 23% compared to the previous year.
As a result of those incidents, a total of 80 horses were killed, which is close to two horses each week. A further 136 horses were injured.
Tragically, one person lost their life in an incident while riding on the road, while a further 135 people were injured.
Of the reported incidents, 40% occurred because a vehicle passed by too quickly while 81% happened because cars passed too closely to horses. A shocking 43% of riders also reported road rage or abuse from other road users – a source of deep concern for all.
The latest figures feed into the shocking numbers of deaths and injuries suffered by equestrians over the past 10 years. Since 2010, 44 riders have been killed and 1,220 injured. Meanwhile, 395 horses have been killed and 1,080 injured.
In 2019 100 cyclists were killed. That's only 20 more than for horses but there are thousands of cyclists using the roads. That number of fatalities for cyclists has remained much the same for the previous 10 years but as the BHS pointed out the 80 horses killed was a 23% increase from the previous year . Regarding injuries, the numbers cannot be compared because of the difference in numbers of horse riders and cyclists using the roads. 135 for horse riders. 3827 adult cyclists suffered serious-injury and for children (up to 15 years of age) the figure was 462. The numbers for non-serious injuries..classed as slight injuries, were 10,557 and 1522 respectively. The term 'slight injuries' can still include nasty injuries.
The wording of rules regarding passing distances has been amended and now includes guidelines for overtaking pedestrians, cyclists and horses.
Leave a minimum distance of 1.5m at speeds under 30mph;
Leave a minimum distance of two metres at speeds over 30mph;
Always leave a distance of at least two metres if driving a large vehicle;
Pass horses and horse-drawn vehicles at speeds under 15mph and at a minimum distance of two metres;
Allow two metres of distance when passing a pedestrian who is walking in the road;
Wait behind the motorcyclist, cyclist, horse rider, horse drawn vehicle or pedestrian and not overtake if it is unsafe or not possible to meet these clearances.
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JohnC6
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What I do to avoid hitting a cyclist, or another car, as I open my car door is to look in the exterior mirror for seconds to allow for any blind spot. I do the same when driving away from the kerbside.
D
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D
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And what if a cyclist approaches your car from within the blind spot? The only way to check your blind spot is to, umm... actually check your blind spot!
Peter123
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Kind of you to help other members who have difficulty reading.
Peter123
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So do I. Hi viz top as well.
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I've never said that ALL of them jump red lights, ride on the pavements or dress in black and ride without lights but a significant proportion that I see when I pick Mrs Nod up from work at 21:00 or so do.
It doesn't matter whose fault it is, if a cyclist gets killed, they're dead. Doing as much as they can to avoid being hit and possibly killed has to be (in part, at least) their responsibility. Be seen. Don't go through red lights. Don't be a tw@. Same goes for me when I'm driving or out on a bike (I see that you completely ignore motorcycles in your lists...)
Cagey75
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There's arguments that can me made against ALL forms of road user. I'd bet that as many motorists fail to indicate as there are pedestrians who run across at the red man as there are cyclists who don't use lights or ride the curbs. I don't know why cyclists always get the worst rep, seems to me that some motorists have it in for them no matter how safe they're cycling. People are talking on here as if they see mental cyclists with a death wish on the daily, but I highly doubt they're seeing any more of it than bell-end drivers blowing one another out of it at crossings, failing to indicate on turns, driving in the wrong lane, breaking red lights, over-taking on blind corners etc ... etc ...
JohnC6
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Difficult to explain properly. Hope this clarifies. I look in the interior mirror first then to the exterior mirror and obviously know how far I am from whatever I can see. I wait long enough for a cyclist or any road user, to travel that distance. I've never knocked a cyclist of his/her bike nor had an 'oh s***t' moment.
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SMIDSY
You can have many lights, some flashing, and because of the way that some people drive and treat other road users, you'll still get hit. Victim demonising like this doesn't stop cars hitting bikes (or even other cars, vans, lorries - yup - some drivers drive into lorries! Better make lorries hi-vis.
A driver who is expecting every hazard to be hi-vis is not a good driver.
JohnC6
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Earlier this evening I watched a BBC news bulletin and they had a reporter out on the streets. I can't recall whether it was London or not but the reporter was by a traffic light- controlled T junction and it was very busy with traffic and pedestrians and there were lots of shops..it looked like London .. and she was explaining aspects of the Highway Code about to be introduced. Whilst she was mentioning the priority to be given to pedestrians and cyclists eg..that vehicles had to give way to pedestrians who were about to cross a side road the motorist intended to drive into and also had to let a cyclist go across a junction and not get ahead and make a left turn just in front of the cyclist.. is a law really needed for that bit of not only common sense but consideration ? ..anyway...as she was speaking along come three cyclists ,none in lycra, just ordinary adult male cyclists one behind the other a couple of metres apart cycling from the road joining the main road and they were on the footpath rounding the 90 degree bend into the main road and slowing to crawl as they weaved around pedestrians and those almost on the bend walking towards it couldn't,of course, see round the bend into the road the cyclist had come from and being confronted by them lurched out of their way.
I really felt sorry for the cyclists because there were safety railings rounding the bend to protect pedestrians from traffic so the pedestrians weren't able to launch themselves into the road to avoid being struck by the cyclists who, fair play to them, skilfully steered around pedestrians and it amazes me how they do it but now and then they'd actually stop for a second balancing, turning the front wheel back and forth no feet on the ground to avoid a pedestrian who wasn't looking where they were going, probably looking at some items in a shop window, then the cyclists would carry out another tricky manoeuvre, barely moving forward and then having negotiated a way through carry on along the busy footpath. It must be quite stressful for them as they probably have to do that route every day to and from work.
I really felt sorry for the cyclists because there were safety railings rounding the bend to protect pedestrians from traffic so the pedestrians weren't able to launch themselves into the road to avoid being struck by the cyclists who, fair play to them, skilfully steered around pedestrians and it amazes me how they do it but now and then they'd actually stop for a second balancing, turning the front wheel back and forth no feet on the ground to avoid a pedestrian who wasn't looking where they were going, probably looking at some items in a shop window, then the cyclists would carry out another tricky manoeuvre, barely moving forward and then having negotiated a way through carry on along the busy footpath. It must be quite stressful for them as they probably have to do that route every day to and from work.
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I don't think cyclists should be allowed to ride on the pavement, unless it is clearly marked as a cycle route.
I wasn't aware that the HC was changing on this - have I missed something?
I wasn't aware that the HC was changing on this - have I missed something?
Buck
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No, but it is a foolish cyclist who doesn't make reasonable efforts. I don't wear hi viz but I do wear bright colours and have my lights.
It isn't victim demonising, more about everybody doing their but in the same way car users should put their lights on when it starts to get dark and not hot the middle lane on the motor way but these are all endless discussions and will always (unfortunately) polarise views.
dcash29
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What difference has laws made to using a mobile phone whilst driving? None!
The laws should have been applied to all users as you have the idiot drivers, the idiot cyclists and the idiot pedestrians. However the ruling has now provided additional powers for the cyclists who block the roads and fail to observe anything behind them. It allows the pedestrians to walk into the road whilst wearing their earplugs. (Not much change really I guess, just more chance of the vehicle owner being prosecuted for stupidity of others). Cyclists should only be allowed on the road after passing a test, have insurance and ID plates. They should stay 1.5 metres away from vehicles, meaning no passing on either side of traffic, signal when overtaking parked cars and watch for people in the parked cars. Pedestrians should look right look left and right again before crossing.
The laws should have been applied to all users as you have the idiot drivers, the idiot cyclists and the idiot pedestrians. However the ruling has now provided additional powers for the cyclists who block the roads and fail to observe anything behind them. It allows the pedestrians to walk into the road whilst wearing their earplugs. (Not much change really I guess, just more chance of the vehicle owner being prosecuted for stupidity of others). Cyclists should only be allowed on the road after passing a test, have insurance and ID plates. They should stay 1.5 metres away from vehicles, meaning no passing on either side of traffic, signal when overtaking parked cars and watch for people in the parked cars. Pedestrians should look right look left and right again before crossing.
Cagey75
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You having a laugh? Cyclists should stay 1.5m from vehicles?? Trust me, most of us try very hard, but we're not given an inch - and yes, at times we have to hop up on the curb to avoid being crushed by bully motorists in lorries/vans who really couldn't give a solid F about a cyclist because they see them as inferior somehow. It happens on the main road I travel to work on every morning, there's a long stretch of road that passes 2 schools, 2 early morning deli stores and a 4-way junction and it can be chaos. If I don't actually hit the curbs on a good stretch of that, with my lights on, and I'm never in 'stealth mode' also the pedestrians don't mind [as there's more room on that curb for us both than there ever will be on the road] - then I will get crushed at some point. It is up to motorists, who are not driving huge wide load buses, to allow that space, cyclists in general are curb hugging in fear on stretches like that for the most part.
A lot of the nonsense being spewed on here is aimed at a very small % of cyclists, by motorists who are much more of a danger because of their blatant ignorance towards cyclists, because they see them as inferior. There's plenty of room on the road for both, but it doesn't stop some ignorant plonkers speeding up through large puddles to drown a cyclist [dangerous driving that should be reported btw] who was trying their best to stick alongside the curb, or cut them off at a turn without indicating [also dangerous driving]
I shouldn't have to repeat, but I keep saying, A-holes are just that no matter how they travel. Having a car doesn't give you any more right than someone walking down that same road, or god forbid, cycling! I actually feel sorry for the anti-cyclists, maybe they didn't get that BMX they desired as a kid? Maybe having a flash car is a bit of compensation for lacking elsewhere? I dunno, we can get real stupid about all this, end of the day a D-head is a D-head, on foot, 2 wheels or 4. Try not to be one, mind your own space and if everyone does same all will be well in the world. But seeing one or two cyclist break a rule shouldn't entitle anyone to be such a massive A-hole as to label all, in that case it is motorists who should definitely cop most of the angst, they are responsible as a whole for most road accidents. Last I checked even accidents involving no other vehicle % was higher than any collisions with cyclists.
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The reason fot the rewording of the HC is to get some balance back between road users.
We have had 60 years of ensuring that private motor traffic takes precedence over all over forms of transport, We have had 60 years of Boris sized lies from motor manufacturers about what you get when you buy a car (a smiling face, open roads at all times of day, without any congestion, motorways so empty that you can break the HC guidance by driving in the middle lane, never any hold ups, no rain, mud, no horrendous drain on finances, no stinky pollution, no HGVs, on white vans, no annoying delivery cyclists, no breakdowns, admiring glances from passers by, no depreciation etc.).
Then there is the editorial from the gutter press, rabidly pro private motoring because of the income that private motoring brings the media, from manufacturer adverts to used car listings.
Finally there is the damage to society, to public health and to the environment from private transport. Millions of people making decisions that suit just them, the triumph of personal choice over common good.
Sadly, for most drivers, the Private Transport dream that is sold by the motor manufacturers and the media doesn’t exist. People who have been sold sexy large cars find that they are stuck in traffic, held up by other cars, they are hooked into a financial vice grip, and believing that their personal space is the most important space they have, many lash out at those that they perceive are different. Herd behaviour reinforces this.
Obviously not all drivers are like this, but enough are to warrant changes to the Highway Code. Instead of thinking “Poor me in my car“ and pointing to the more vulnerable around the safety cage, blaming them, there is a broader, more social, healthier approach to take, which is to chill, take a breath, be more collaborate on the roads, consider personal transport choices, think of public health and the environment as at least equals to Private Transport when making these decisisons.
Without a different stance? The polarising and dangerous pointing fingers, blaming others for the failures of the transport choices that have been made. A country where not being in a car can be really quite unpleasant and marginalising.
We have had 60 years of ensuring that private motor traffic takes precedence over all over forms of transport, We have had 60 years of Boris sized lies from motor manufacturers about what you get when you buy a car (a smiling face, open roads at all times of day, without any congestion, motorways so empty that you can break the HC guidance by driving in the middle lane, never any hold ups, no rain, mud, no horrendous drain on finances, no stinky pollution, no HGVs, on white vans, no annoying delivery cyclists, no breakdowns, admiring glances from passers by, no depreciation etc.).
Then there is the editorial from the gutter press, rabidly pro private motoring because of the income that private motoring brings the media, from manufacturer adverts to used car listings.
Finally there is the damage to society, to public health and to the environment from private transport. Millions of people making decisions that suit just them, the triumph of personal choice over common good.
Sadly, for most drivers, the Private Transport dream that is sold by the motor manufacturers and the media doesn’t exist. People who have been sold sexy large cars find that they are stuck in traffic, held up by other cars, they are hooked into a financial vice grip, and believing that their personal space is the most important space they have, many lash out at those that they perceive are different. Herd behaviour reinforces this.
Obviously not all drivers are like this, but enough are to warrant changes to the Highway Code. Instead of thinking “Poor me in my car“ and pointing to the more vulnerable around the safety cage, blaming them, there is a broader, more social, healthier approach to take, which is to chill, take a breath, be more collaborate on the roads, consider personal transport choices, think of public health and the environment as at least equals to Private Transport when making these decisisons.
Without a different stance? The polarising and dangerous pointing fingers, blaming others for the failures of the transport choices that have been made. A country where not being in a car can be really quite unpleasant and marginalising.
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The public voted to have money taken out of policing. Low Tax!!
The public and the media think controls on Private Motoring are draconian, that there is a “War on the Motorist!!!”. That cameras are scams, because they enforce laws (and laws should only be enforced by smiling policemen, who will probably let polite white males off minor motoring misdemeanours,)
LCPete
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I read somewhere that most cars sold worldwide are the large SUV four wheel drive things that’s crazy something like that is only nessersary if you live on a farm or don’t have proper roads where you live
Agree with you people want to have these things that are bad for the environment and are lethal to vulnerable road users if they hit someone
Maybe I’m missing the point but a car to me is just a way of getting from A to B and couldn’t imagine spending that much on a car or getting myself into massive debt as I couldn’t afford to buy one outright
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But to some, driving, and a nice car, is their pastime. I love the social side of being part of an owners club, taking road trips to different parts of the UK (and Europe before Covid). I used to buy my cars on PCP, but when we sold the house I paid off this one & kept it as I love it.
Do I need an "estate" car? Well when we go on holiday, the walking gear, plus the photography gear and maybe some food (if we're self catering) were really tight in my 3 door Mini. The Clubman gives me more space, and as it's all wheel drive, I'm not too worried about a bit of snow etc. Sometimes you have to look at things from other people's perspectives. If we only ever had what we needed, life would be boring. Sometimes, you just have to live a little...
LCPete
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Yep see what you mean, I’m actually the same with motorbikes
I guess everyone is different is what you’re saying a car to me is just to get me out to take pictures but I’ll spend all day out on my bike going nowhere in particular