Will fox hunting be legal again?

Phil V said:
Whilst I agree with the sentiment, the last couple of minutes can taint the flavour, personally I'd like them all to drift off into an alcoholic daze so they die in peace and slightly marinated too.
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You haven't fallen for that one have you ?

A bit of an Internet myth - because the animal's die slowly, that adrenaline's released into the bloodstream, and effects the taste of the meat.

Scientifically debunked. Difference in taste has been attributed to be better quality meat. It's as simple as that.
 
Llamaman said:
If the restaurant were able to confirm that it was stunned Halal, would you still avoid it?

The reason I ask is because if people are avoiding Halal meat altogether to avoid the 10-20% that's non-stunned, this could easily be avoided through labeling non-stunned meat (which I'm in favour of, if we can't can't ban it).
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When I ask I try and be polite about it so I tend to say is your halal meat traditional or not. Most people get what I mean by this. If they say they are unsure or don't know I will order a veg meal. If they say or indicate it's been stunned then yes I would order a meat based meal. Most places are a little shocked ask at first but are happy that someone takes an interest in it.

Id love it to be labelled or clearly pointed out... I'm sure I'm missing out on those post beer elephant legs!
 
I didn't realise that wasn't true. I thought the adrenalin caused the release of glycogen and basically makes it rather tough.


Blank_Canvas said:
You haven't fallen for that one have you ?

A bit of an Internet myth - because the animal's die slowly, that adrenaline's released into the bloodstream, and effects the taste of the meat.

Scientifically debunked. Difference in taste has been attributed to be better quality meat. It's as simple as that.
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eeyore said:
When I ask I try and be polite about it so I tend to say is your halal meat traditional or not. Most people get what I mean by this. If they say they are unsure or don't know I will order a veg meal. If they say or indicate it's been stunned then yes I would order a meat based meal. Most places are a little shocked ask at first but are happy that someone takes an interest in it.

Id love it to be labelled or clearly pointed out... I'm sure I'm missing out on those post beer elephant legs!
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I've got to ask, what are post beer elephant legs? Never heard of them or anything else referenced like that.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
You haven't fallen for that one have you ?

A bit of an Internet myth - because the animal's die slowly, that adrenaline's released into the bloodstream, and effects the taste of the meat.

Scientifically debunked. Difference in taste has been attributed to be better quality meat. It's as simple as that.
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Where is your evidence ;)
 
eeyore said:
When I ask I try and be polite about it so I tend to say is your halal meat traditional or not. Most people get what I mean by this. If they say they are unsure or don't know I will order a veg meal. If they say or indicate it's been stunned then yes I would order a meat based meal. Most places are a little shocked ask at first but are happy that someone takes an interest in it.

Id love it to be labelled or clearly pointed out... I'm sure I'm missing out on those post beer elephant legs!
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I've got to ask, what are post beer elephant legs? Never heard of them or anything else referenced like that.
 
Phil V said:
personally I'd like them all to drift off into an alcoholic daze so they die in peace and slightly marinated too.
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I could live with that
Or even die like that TBH :D
 
Oh yuk. How it's killed would be the least of my concerns, what's in it, now that is where the problem is. You are not missing anything.
 
new2me said:
Just call him a clueless wind up merchant and be done with it. He's a t***.

It's crazy that a forum supports someone like ST4 who has pretty much boasted about being banned for winding up members of other forums.
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Indeed. Even Admin Matt has discovered "He clearly is Grand Master Troll". Why he is still here is beyond me.
 
This subject will always provide strong emotions on both sides and I can understand that. My journey is one from being anti hunt to now being pro hunting. What changed my opinion, well I actually went out following the hunt.I went with an open mind listened to both sides and I have to say one of the things that did come across with a lot of the anti hunting protesters was how class prejudiced they were. Now the hunt I went out with, whilst there were some who you might call "titled" the vast majority were working people.
 
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I just don't get why so many in the UK create a class problem where there is none by being so anti class system. I agree that if they spent some time in the real world they would realise that people are people and it doesn't have to be an issue. So what when people inherit something.
 
dejongj said:
I just don't get why so many in the UK create a class problem where there is none by being so anti class system. I agree that if they spent some time in the real world they would realise that people are people and it doesn't have to be an issue. So what when people inherit something.
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I'm not against inheritance but there has to be a recognition that it loads the dice. It's grimly amusing that the tories are so strong on the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps; succeed off your own back" rhetoric yet, with the other hand they're very protective of inherited wealth. Someone coming from a comfortable background, perhaps with inheritance to lean back on, is not succeeding off their own efforts. And they're deluded if they think they are. Not that I'm anti-inheritance or anti-work. I think we should reward hard work but also collectively invest in getting those who don't have advantages onto the ladder. And if a few "scroungers" exploit that goodwill then so what? I don't lose sleep over it.

This cartoon I've seen recently that captures my feelings well:

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate


Edit: also this one... http://wondermark.com/c1135/
 
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Gremlin said:
It could be arranged ;)(y):p
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How did I know you would offer? :p

Rapscallion said:
Indeed. Even Admin Matt has discovered "He clearly is Grand Master Troll". Why he is still here is beyond me.
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For the same reason that a few others are still alive and kicking ;)
You can't just kill one troll, you have to take the whole pack out ;)
 
Llamaman said:
Au contraire. One prolific contributor was called out for using a racist epithet only last week, but escaped censure.
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Why wasn't it reported then?
 
Cobra said:
Shall we?
:D
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I've not met my target for a while...........
You know what the admins are like, don't hit targets and the buttons get taken away (n)
 
ghoti said:
I'm not against inheritance but there has to be a recognition that it loads the dice. It's grimly amusing that the tories are so strong on the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps; succeed off your own back" rhetoric yet, with the other hand they're very protective of inherited wealth. Someone coming from a comfortable background, perhaps with inheritance to lean back on, is not succeeding off their own efforts. And they're deluded if they think they are. Not that I'm anti-inheritance or anti-work. I think we should reward hard work but also collectively invest in getting those who don't have advantages onto the ladder. And if a few "scroungers" exploit that goodwill then so what? I don't lose sleep over it.

This cartoon I've seen recently that captures my feelings well:

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate


Edit: also this one... http://wondermark.com/c1135/
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I don't recall ever seeing evidence that anyone who has inherited their wealth has claimed to have succeeded off their own back, and nor do I think they should be penalised, ridiculed or belittled for it.
 
ghoti said:
I'm not against inheritance but there has to be a recognition that it loads the dice. It's grimly amusing that the tories are so strong on the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps; succeed off your own back" rhetoric yet, with the other hand they're very protective of inherited wealth. Someone coming from a comfortable background, perhaps with inheritance to lean back on, is not succeeding off their own efforts. And they're deluded if they think they are. Not that I'm anti-inheritance or anti-work. I think we should reward hard work but also collectively invest in getting those who don't have advantages onto the ladder. And if a few "scroungers" exploit that goodwill then so what? I don't lose sleep over it.

This cartoon I've seen recently that captures my feelings well:

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate


Edit: also this one... http://wondermark.com/c1135/
Click to expand...


The protection regarding inheritance is simple, its ours and nobody elses. No deeper meaning or excuse. The cartoons and rethoric just seems like a pathetic excuse to me.
 
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Cobra said:
Why wasn't it reported then?
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I believe, in my self-centredness, that @Llamaman is talking about me moaning, seemingly petulantly, about the use of the racial slur "beaners" to refer to Hispanic Americans. A word loaded with racial baggage. Racial baggage held by a dominant culture against an underprivileged people.
Why didn't I report it? Simple: we're adults. It's not for me to go running behind the curtain and cry about what people are doing in the public forum. I just called it like I saw it, people are free to agree or to disagree (and they did, in equal measures, which is a good thing), and if the mods felt action was necessary, they could act. What's more, you - a mod - were part of the wider conversation anyway, so you could have dealt with it if you thought it was contrary to the image you want this forum to project. You obviously didn't think it was against the image of the forum, so who am I to object?
 
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dejongj said:
The protection regarding inheritance is simple, its ours and nobody elses. No deeper meaning or excuse. The cartoons and rethoric just seems like a pathetic excuse to me.
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It's your money, not your kids' money. I've nothing against inheritance, but if you think inheritance is important then don't, with the other hand, claim you want everyone to achieve based solely on merit. Inheritance and nepotism are ant-merit. You're not building a meritocracy by handing privilege to your heirs, you're building an aristocracy.
 
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viv1969 said:
I don't recall ever seeing evidence that anyone who has inherited their wealth has claimed to have succeeded off their own back, and nor do I think they should be penalised, ridiculed or belittled for it.
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No, but lots of people who have inherited their wealth and who now yield executive power expect that others succeed off their own back. Cut benefits because people shouldn't get "something for nothing" but receive millions in inherited (unearned) wealth that has seen them slide to the top of society like a snake between rocks.
 
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ghoti said:
It's your money, not your kids' money. I've nothing against inheritance, but if you think inheritance is important then don't, with the other hand, claim you want everyone to achieve based solely on merit. Inheritance and nepotism are ant-merit. You're not building a meritocracy by handing privilege to your heirs, you're building an aristocracy.
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??? Why do you link personal responsibility to a governance structure? The two don't have to be linked. I really think you overthink this a bit too much and through in all sorts of stuff and fill in the blanks...Just like you seem to do with the perceived racisms call...
 
dejongj said:
??? Why do you link personal responsibility to a governance structure? The two don't have to be linked. I really think you overthink this a bit too much and through in all sorts of stuff and fill in the blanks...Just like you seem to do with the perceived racisms call...
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What has "personal responsibility" got to do with inherited wealth?
 
God I had the dice loaded then. My uncle was worth well over a Million pounds, so I must really had a good start. No, he earned his money, he started with nothing and worked his way to be in the position he was. His children were encouraged to make their own way in life and when I worked for him as assistant gardener for a few weeks I had to work for that money no easy ride because I was family. On his death and the sale of his business the 3 children each got a quarter of his estate the other quarter went to someone who had worked with him from when he started his business. Please tell me why some of you think his children should have inherited his money?

So I had to "get on my bike" (remember that was another Tory thing) leaving the home I grew up with until I was about 9 complete with it's outside toilet to the terraced house my parents lived in when I left at 18 to make my way in the world. So please don't try and make out that all those with money will succeed and all those without will fail. It is not like that.
 
Cobra said:
Why wasn't it reported then?
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I think this has already been answered adequately, but since you asked me directly you deserve a response.
The thread I referred to was contributed towards by a Moderator. Another poster raised the issue and the Moderator addressed that - directly - in the thread. Reporting the comment seemed futile and petty under the circumstances.
If you'd like me to report it 'for the record' I'll see if I can find the thread again...
 
ghoti said:
It's not for me to go running behind the curtain and cry about what people are doing in the public forum.
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But you just have

ghoti said:
What's more, you - a mod - were part of the wider conversation anyway, so you could have dealt with it if you thought it was contrary to the image you want this forum to project. You obviously didn't think it was against the image of the forum, so who am I to object?
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Ah "that" it was actually reported, discussed with the admin and other mods.
It was felt that no action was required. As no one in the mod team had ever heard the word used as a racist slur,
its rather like Clarkson and his slope or was it slant? TBH I can't remember, either way now.

I suspect rather like most of the mod team at that time really had no idea that it had racist over tones.
All the press did was to "give" the wider population, another word that is *now* *thought of as racist.
Certainly none of my friends had heard it used other than something that has an incline.

I feel sorry for people that find so many words *racist* or go looking for perfectly harmless words, to find racist overtones.
 
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Llamaman said:
I think this has already been answered adequately, but since you asked me directly you deserve a response.
The thread I referred to was contributed towards by a Moderator. Another poster raised the issue and the Moderator addressed that - directly - in the thread. Reporting the comment seemed futile and petty under the circumstances.
If you'd like me to report it 'for the record' I'll see if I can find the thread again...
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I think that I have now answered that.
 
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munch said:
...... So please don't try and make out that all those with money will succeed and all those without will fail. It is not like that.
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That was never the argument Munch. What was said is that having wealthy parents often gives the children an advantage in life. Or have I misread your post?
 
ST4 said:
Are upperclass people tw*ts? If so, why?

It's comments like this in this tone that make me believe the fox hunting ban was an attack on the upper classes.
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You do understand that makes as much sense as the religious right who claim gay marriage makes them a victim. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Fox hunters managed to hold onto a barbarous pastime well beyond reasonable purely because some of them were the upper classes. They're not being victimised for being posh. They're having their medeival behaviour curbed in the same way that the lower classes had to some time ago. Cock fighting and badger baiting were working class pursuits that came to an end when 'animal welfare' became a political issue. Fox hunting didn't suffer the same fate long ago purely because of it's links with the powerful.

Well now the powerful are no longer the landed gentry (though they can still buy some privilege), this isn't hunters (of whatever class) being attacked, this is simply a case of their behaviour being brought into line with the rest of us.

If I'm reported being cruel to any animal, it doesn't take a new act of parliament, the law is fairly straightforward. The only real question is how comes fox hunting was allowed long after any form of animal cruelty was outlawed?
 
Cobra said:
It was felt that no action was required. As no one in the mod team had ever heard the word used as a racist slur,
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I doubt the word came to the poster in a flash of inspiration. Children often repeat things they've heard without knowing what it means - you still tell them not to do it again.

Cobra said:
its rather like Clarkson and his slope or was it slant? TBH I can't remember, either way now.
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It was 'slope', and it was clearly intended to be racist in the context of the program. I too had not heard the term but that scene seemed 'off' and I later found out why. Quite what possessed them to do it is beyond me - I think maybe they'd got a bit too cocky and thought they get one past the BBC censor.
But that's besides the point. If that incident is where you are setting the bar, at least now we all know that feigning indignation and innocence will get us off the hook. ;)
 
Llamaman said:
I too had not heard the term but that scene seemed 'off' and I later found out why.
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But thats the problem though, like me you probably goggled it after the umpteenth time you heard it in reference to *racist*
I wonder how many words are out there just waiting to be tagged racist by someone?

Llamaman said:
at least now we all know that feigning indignation and innocence will get us off the hook. ;)
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Each case is discussed on its own merits, the obvious ones that every one has heard of are obviously a nono.
The more obscure ones are talked about and a "call" is made on that word and or the context that it is used.
 
Cobra said:
But you just have
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I've not run behind any curtain, have I? This discussion is still within the public forum. Like I said, we're adults, people should be granted the dignity of being treated like adults, and you won't find me "reporting" on anything in here because, as much as I disagree with many people on this forum, I believe in (1) their right to reply and (2) the right of the mods and administrators to include any opinions (no matter how objectionable to me) that they see as appropriate. I don't demand this forum changes because of my views, I'm happy to have robust and powerful debates and to disagree vociferously without making enemies.
 
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